2015-16 roster

[inkman]

As Big Daddy Kane once rapped, "Tankin' ain't easy."

 

Always preferred this joint

[SwampD]

Tell me about all these teams that won the cup who didn't suck for 3+ years? 

 

 

 

You've come up with don't get rid of Dumont? something that happend 10 years ago??? and trade a 25 year old power forward who just scored 30 goals? none of these things would get you the elite talent you need to be a contender for the cup. You're happy with a Play-off contender and I am not. I want a Cup contender.

There is sucking because you suck, and then there is choosing to be historically bad.

 

I was just coming up with a few of the myriad bad decisions that were made that convinced people that the tank was the only way out. I could have come up with more but I stopped caring. You're happy with it. I think it sucks. Either way, we are where we are.

 

Someday, the Sabres will start selling winning,… God I hope that's true, because right now, I'd just settle for watchable hockey.

[LGR4GM]

If Darcy had drafted centers prior to Mikhail Grigorenko in 2012, things would be different. Darcy didn't magically figure things out. He held onto players forever and then finally started to realize you can't build from the wings.  He completely it up and it's his fault we are in this position.  Also if he wanted to really tank, MacKinnon was the year. He literally stumbled into the tank and then tried to sell. Darcy couldn't plan his way out of a chuck e cheese.

[WildCard]

I give credit to Devine for starting to change things more so than I'll ever give Darcy. 

 

I wasn't in for the tank in MacKinnon's year, IIRC Ink was one of the few posters who wanted that to be the year of the tank. I didn't come around to the idea until that offseason, and even then it was with 2015 in mind solely for McDavid and 2014 being an inevitable "eh ###### it, might as well" year where I saw nothing really valuable happening other than stock-piling and scouring our roster of the old core. GMTM was easily the most important thing to come out of that season, and you can't tank for a GM. 

 

Ranting a little, but Qwk and Swamp are right, GM's build contending, and Cup winning, teams without tanking continually. It shouldn't have come to this, especially with 16 years of opportunity for him, but it did, so we might as well embrace it. 35 more games of this, and it's back to hoping for wins again, no matter how bad we may still be. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by WildCard

[inkman]

I give credit to Devine for starting to change things more so than I'll ever give Darcy. 

 

I wasn't in for the tank in MacKinnon's year, IIRC Ink was one of the few posters who wanted that to be the year of the tank. 

 

Only because I could see that we were clearly the team most bereft of talent in the league, by a wide margin. Instead they traded Pominville, Regehr, and Leopold... And got better. Sigh...

[Eleven]

Tell me about all these teams that won the cup who didn't suck for 3+ years? 

 

 

Do you mean within a reasonable time of winning the Cup?  Because otherwise, yes, every team ever has had a 3-year period of sucking.

 

Plenty of teams have won the Cup without a 3-year suck beforehand.

[beerme1]

Im ok with sucking for 4 years - no problem at all. Sabres have been sucked into the middle of the standings for the most part of 40+ years. Im tired of it and this is how you build a Champion.

Besides saying are you ok with Tanking for 4 years - give me a couple of things they should have done different?

 

Would anyone disagree that you wouldn't trade old core for Eichel straight up? For McDavid you may have even traded the entire 2011-12 roster.

It didn't need to happen this way and if you want a couple things they should have done differently go back to the root of this garbage. Sign both Briere and Drury. Radically different course of history we would have been on I think no?

[Crusader1969]

w

 

It didn't need to happen this way and if you want a couple things they should have done differently go back to the root of this garbage. Sign both Briere and Drury. Radically different course of history we would have been on I think no?

 

Do you mean within a reasonable time of winning the Cup?  Because otherwise, yes, every team ever has had a 3-year period of sucking.

 

Plenty of teams have won the Cup without a 3-year suck beforehand.

 

Again you are stuck in 2005. You do realize its now 2015 and Drury has long since retired?

 

You guys are great at saying a lot of teams didn't go through a 3 year period of sucking (a reasonable time) before winning the cup but no one seems to want to name them - Please don't go back and mention the 1978 Montreal Canadians. lets keep it post Lock-out salary cap years.

 

I think its funny that I am willing to go through a 4 year period of sucking but you are willing to sit through 40 years of being stuck in the middle. Maybe you're a lot more patient than me.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Crusader1969

[Eleven]

Post lockout is a pretty small sample size.  Teams I was thinking of include the Rags, Devils, and Red Wings.

 

It doesn't really matter what one is "willing" to do, anyway.  We are where we are.

[SwampD]

w

 

 

 

Again you are stuck in 2005. You do realize its now 2015 and Drury has long since retired?

 

You guys are great at saying a lot of teams didn't go through a 3 year period of sucking (a reasonable time) before winning the cup but no one seems to want to name them - Please don't go back and mention the 1978 Montreal Canadians. lets keep it post Lock-out salary cap years.

 

I think its funny that I am willing to go through a 4 year period of sucking but you are willing to sit through 40 years of being stuck in the middle. Maybe you're a lot more patient than me.

Boy, Darcy sure left some deep wounds.

 

Post lockout (which is a stupid demarcation)-Boston, Carolina, Detroit.

[LGR4GM]

Boy, Darcy sure left some deep wounds.

 

Post lockout (which is a stupid demarcation)-Boston, Carolina, Detroit.

You could almost toss Anaheim in there as well. I mean they got Getzlaf and Perry in the 20's not the top 5.

[Crusader1969]

Post lockout is a pretty small sample size.  Teams I was thinking of include the Rags, Devils, and Red Wings.

 

It doesn't really matter what one is "willing" to do, anyway.  We are where we are.

 

 

You can't go back prior to lock-out because the landscape completely changed once the salary cap came into play. Since, there is very few quality players make it to free-agency. No longer can teams out-spend. I won't include the Devils but the Wings/ Rangers were known as big spenders back in the day.

[Eleven]

You can't go back prior to lock-out because the landscape completely changed once the salary cap came into play. Since, there is very few quality players make it to free-agency. No longer can teams out-spend. I won't include the Devils but the Wings/ Rangers were known as big spenders back in the day.

The Wings have won post lockout without "suffering."  Someone else mentioned Boston.

 

It still doesn't matter.

[Crusader1969]

You could almost toss Anaheim in there as well. I mean they got Getzlaf and Perry in the 20's not the top 5.

 

 

I would include Anhiem in a team that did it without "suffering". Obviously they had great drafting but by tradiing for Pronger and adding free agent Scott Niedermayer put them over the top.

 

Guys like Niedermayer don't hit free agency anymore - even guys like Neon Dion here in Toronto get signed long term before hitting FA status.

 

Its a different world now is my point.  Good teams are now primarily (doesn't mean always) built through the draft.

[Drunkard]

You can definitely win without tanking and you can definitely tank without winning but a number of teams that are perennial contenders got that way by acquiring blue chips players by drafting high for multiple years. The fact of the matter is that this team has been completely devoid of quality centers since 7/1/07 and the brain trust decided that the best way to remedy the situation was a complete rebuild in order to draft some legitimate blue chip prospects who could serve as cornerstones for this franchise.

 

It doesn't guarantee anything but I definitely think our chances will be better with McEichel, Reinhart, Girgensons, and Grigorenko as our likely pivot men going forward than if we had to pin our hopes to Ennis, Hodgson, Grigorenko, and McCormick as our centers. The degree to which we've blown things up has also given us the opportunity to grab guys like Reinhart, Zadorov, Lemieux, Compher, Bailey, and Girgensons whom we wouldn't have been able to draft without selling off the old core or finishing as poorly as we did to grab Lemieux and Reinhart.

[MattPie]

Boy, Darcy sure left some deep wounds.

 

Post lockout (which is a stupid demarcation)-Boston, Carolina, Detroit.

 

Carolina was last overall in 2002-3 and bad the next year too. Interestingly, they went from the SCF in 2001-2 to 61 points (last by 8 points) in 2002-3.

Edited January 27, 2015 by MattPie

[SwampD]

I would include Anhiem in a team that did it without "suffering". Obviously they had great drafting but by tradiing for Pronger and adding free agent Scott Niedermayer put them over the top.

 

Guys like Niedermayer don't hit free agency anymore - even guys like Neon Dion here in Toronto get signed long term before hitting FA status.

 

Its a different world now is my point.  Good teams are now primarily (doesn't mean always) built through the draft.

I'm pretty sure it's the same world it always has been. Bad teams are built through the draft, as well. In fact, every kind of team has been built every kind of way and we've talked in circles long enough about the tank in a non-tank thread and the colored girls go "doo, di doo, di doo, doo, di doo, doo... so I think I'm done.

[nfreeman]

w

 

 

 

Again you are stuck in 2005. You do realize its now 2015 and Drury has long since retired?

 

You guys are great at saying a lot of teams didn't go through a 3 year period of sucking (a reasonable time) before winning the cup but no one seems to want to name them - Please don't go back and mention the 1978 Montreal Canadians. lets keep it post Lock-out salary cap years.

 

I think its funny that I am willing to go through a 4 year period of sucking but you are willing to sit through 40 years of being stuck in the middle. Maybe you're a lot more patient than me.

 

Leaving aside the substance, this is a pretty obnoxiously stated post.

 

I would include Anhiem in a team that did it without "suffering". Obviously they had great drafting but by tradiing for Pronger and adding free agent Scott Niedermayer put them over the top.

 

Guys like Niedermayer don't hit free agency anymore - even guys like Neon Dion here in Toronto get signed long term before hitting FA status.

 

Its a different world now is my point.  Good teams are now primarily (doesn't mean always) built through the draft.

As for the substance:  Yes, good teams are generally built through the draft.  That is not the same thing as being as bad as the Sabres are for a lengthy period.  The Rangers have been an upper-echelon team for a while now and didn't need to bottom out like the Sabres.  Nashville is in the playoffs every year and only had one bad year, which resulted from losing Rinne for the year.

 

It also can't be forgotten that there is zero guaranty that bottoming out will work -- and actually there is a high risk that the team will remain mired in suckitude for a much lengthier period than many think is possible.

 

The point is that this didn't need to happen.  With better commitment from ownership and better roster management from Darcy, the Sabres could've stayed in the hunt every year, without subjecting us to a generation in the desert and the risk of staying there for another generation.

[Crusader1969]

I will agree to disagree with you about the landscape of the NHL not changing post 2004.

 

Trades are rare, big name Free agents are rare. Hell, the LA kings cant even trade Mike Richards for a bag of pucks.

[TrueBlueGED]

Leaving aside the substance, this is a pretty obnoxiously stated post.

 

As for the substance:  Yes, good teams are generally built through the draft.  That is not the same thing as being as bad as the Sabres are for a lengthy period.  The Rangers have been an upper-echelon team for a while now and didn't need to bottom out like the Sabres.  Nashville is in the playoffs every year and only had one bad year, which resulted from losing Rinne for the year.

 

It also can't be forgotten that there is zero guaranty that bottoming out will work -- and actually there is a high risk that the team will remain mired in suckitude for a much lengthier period than many think is possible.

 

The point is that this didn't need to happen.  With better commitment from ownership and better roster management from Darcy, the Sabres could've stayed in the hunt every year, without subjecting us to a generation in the desert and the risk of staying there for another generation.

 

Little early to say we've been in the desert for a generation, no?

[Crusader1969]

Leaving aside the substance, this is a pretty obnoxiously stated post.

 

As for the substance:  Yes, good teams are generally built through the draft.  That is not the same thing as being as bad as the Sabres are for a lengthy period.  The Rangers have been an upper-echelon team for a while now and didn't need to bottom out like the Sabres.  Nashville is in the playoffs every year and only had one bad year, which resulted from losing Rinne for the year.

 

It also can't be forgotten that there is zero guaranty that bottoming out will work -- and actually there is a high risk that the team will remain mired in suckitude for a much lengthier period than many think is possible.

 

The point is that this didn't need to happen.  With better commitment from ownership and better roster management from Darcy, the Sabres could've stayed in the hunt every year, without subjecting us to a generation in the desert and the risk of staying there for another generation.

 

wow, what hunt were the Sabres ever in? the hunt for 8th place?? being stuck in the middle is what sucks. I would say that there is a higher risk of being stuck in mediorcrity for a lenghier period than there is of coming in last picking up prospects like Reinhart and McDavid / Eichel and not become a contender.

 

you can have your 40 years of mediocrity if thats what you want. I'll take my 4 or 5 years of losing to build a true contender. 

Edited January 27, 2015 by Crusader1969

[Eleven]

wow, what hunt were the Sabres ever in? the hunt for 8th place?? being stuck in the middle is what sucks. I would say that there is a higher risk of being stuck in mediorcrity for a lenghier period than there is of coming in last picking up prospects like Reinhart and McDavid / Eichel and not become a contender.

 

you can have your 40 years of mediocrity if thats what you want. I'll take my 4 or 5 years of losing to build a true contender. 

They won a Presidents' Trophy and were in the semifinals two years in a row.  That is the hunt they were in.  With better commitment from ownership and better roster management, this tire fire would not have happened.  They could have remained perennial contenders like lots of teams do.  Quinn and Regier got in the way.

[Taro T]

They won a Presidents' Trophy and were in the semifinals two years in a row.  That is the hunt they were in.  With better commitment from ownership and better roster management, this tire fire would not have happened.  They could have remained perennial contenders like lots of teams do.  Quinn and Regier got in the way.

ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Johnny Olsen, tell him what he's won ...

[Crusader1969]

They won a Presidents' Trophy and were in the semifinals two years in a row.  That is the hunt they were in.  With better commitment from ownership and better roster management, this tire fire would not have happened.  They could have remained perennial contenders like lots of teams do.  Quinn and Regier got in the way.

 

youre hitching your horse to 2 seasons over the last 14 since Hasek left them? Again it seems non-tankers are stuck in 2005.

I want better than that - Im looking for them to be perennial cup contenders for the next 10-12 years once the "tank" is over. 

Plus lets not forget the President Trophy winning Sabres got beat easily by Senators and would have been lambs to the slaughter vs the Ducks. But yes they, messed up letting the FA's walk for nothing. Glad we didn't do the same with Pommer, Gaustad, Vanek and Miller.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Crusader1969

[Eleven]

youre hitching your horse to 2 seasons over the last 14 since Hasek left them? Again it seems non-tankers are stuck in 2005.

I want better than that - Im looking for them to be perennial cup contenders for the next 10-12 years once the "tank" is over. 

Plus lets not forget the President Trophy winning Sabres got beat easily by Senators and would have been lambs to the slaughter vs the Ducks. But yes they, messed up letting the FA's walk for nothing. Glad we didn't do the same with Pommer, Gaustad, Vanek and Miller.

I'm not hitching any horses to anything.  I'm simply stating that they had a great team and could have had a perennial contender for years to come.  They won a division title in 2010, too.  What would that team have looked like with a couple more pieces?  Everything was in place for this team to be like the Red Wings, but, instead, we got the Oilers and a prayer.  And I'm not sure what point we're arguing, anyway; as I said above, we are where we are with this team.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Eleven