Stoner Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 So we're not just imagining things. Not showing up for games has been a problem for as long as Mike Weber has been a Sabre? So since at least 2010? How long's it really been going on? How many of Lindy's teams never looked like, you know, a Lindy team was supposed to look? Is it ingrained in Buffalo hockey culture, or does it look like this everywhere in the NHL? You watch other games and know the latter is not the case. So what is it? Maybe it's the overwhelming support of this franchise that is so unconditional it doesn't have to be earned. When you come to Buffalo as a player, you're immediately in like Flynn. Go to Wegman's? Someone will see you and Tweet it. Show up at a bar? The booze will flow and the panties will drop. Is it that way in Nashville, Dallas, San Jose? Yes I'm grasping. I do find it fascinating. Something is very wrong here, and I don't think it will be easily fixed. If anything, it's a toxicity that surrounds losers, a stench that won't go away no matter how many times you scrub it. B-BBO. And as I think about it more, there's also this: The way that the status quo of mediocrity continued to get rewarded under Golisano after 2007. And then Pegula on Day One doubled down. The players see that. The team's response to More Lindy and More Darcy, pure mental fatigue, was pretty telling. I mean, you have an owner talking Stanley Cup out one side of the mouth and slavish loyalty to The Way We've Always Done It out the other. But, hell, the players also reaped the rewards of that philosophy of not having to earn anything. What message did it send when the players got that fancy new lockerroom and all the kid glove treatment we hear about that's part of the "Pegula Way"? /grasping No, I just think he had no idea how determined upper management was to go all in TANK. I didn't like the PLF or TN hire when it happened. It was a publicity hire only. My point was more that when he resigned it was all we need to know about this organization. It is a much bigger mess than just what we see on the ice. For those that think he was fired it really doesn't matter either way. The differences came from the direction of the team. I just cannot fathom how ownership wants to be this bad? How is that any way to run a business. Throw away seasons for a couple picks? Idiots These are good questions. One reason I worry neurotically about hidden reasons behind the tank is that I look at who Pegula's advisers are. A buddy accountant, that buddy's buddy lawyer/TV exec, that buddy's former boss, a finance guy in the league and for Pitt. The only legit hockey guy is Craig Patrick, and he's arguably another crony who needed a job in the twilight of his career. What motivates three of the four guys, who make their living and reputation counting beans? You're telling me the knowledge that costs could be dramatically cut without hurting revenues much doesn't make corporate types in 2014 get major Woody? The crack about Terry laying hands on the guy with the crutches in that picture was born out of a smirk on my face when first seeing it. Look at the billionaire smiling as the peasants file in for overpriced coffee and sweets. Suckers! WNY fear and loathing of the wealthy. Must be. I agree, publicity hires. Nolan with the potential of teaching young'uns, but otherwise, publicity. So PLF figured it out: He was here like an ex-boxer at a casino: He was a greeter. He wasn't here to build a hockey team. He took off once he figured it out. And no one else has hired him to build a hockey team, either. If Pegula did that, how can you possibly still support him or think he's a good owner or think he's going to lead us to a Cup? Who are his cronies? And why would he lack a "set of balls" just because he's not comfortable in public. And seriously, "Betty, don't start up with your white zone ###### again." There is a whole "Trial of Terry Pegula" thread just for this. Go get after it! I've outlined time and again how the Crony Family Tree works. Are you not paying attention? Come on, Eleven. When you first heard that a billionaire Sabres fan was buying the team, did you not allow yourself one moment to fantasize about the calibre of people who would run the team? Terry had the motivation and means to bring the best hockey people in the ###### world here to launch a dynasty. And we end up WITH CLIFF BENSON, TED BLACK, KEN SAWYER, CRAIG PATRICK AND JOE MOTHER######ING BATTISTA?????!!!!! Now I'm angry, with an extra hour on my hands. I'm coming in hot. Agree. It continues to amaze me how a guy who built a multi-billion dollar fortune can't seem to put two coherent sentences together in public. I finally figured out who Pegula is. He's Ronald Reagan. Terry's handlers, who hold the real power, just haven't figured out to give him notecards yet. Teflon Terry. Become viral, my friend, become viral. Go... go boldly into cyberspace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 How long's it really been going on? How many of Lindy's teams never looked like, you know, a Lindy team was supposed to look? Is it ingrained in Buffalo hockey culture, or does it look like this everywhere in the NHL? You watch other games and know the latter is not the case. So what is it? Maybe it's the overwhelming support of this franchise that is so unconditional it doesn't have to be earned. When you come to Buffalo as a player, you're immediately in like Flynn. Go to Wegman's? Someone will see you and Tweet it. Show up at a bar? The booze will flow and the panties will drop. Is it that way in Nashville, Dallas, San Jose? Yes I'm grasping. I do find it fascinating. Something is very wrong here, and I don't think it will be easily fixed. If anything, it's a toxicity that surrounds losers, a stench that won't go away no matter how many times you scrub it. B-BBO. And as I think about it more, there's also this: The way that the status quo of mediocrity continued to get rewarded under Golisano after 2007. And then Pegula on Day One doubled down. The players see that. The team's response to More Lindy and More Darcy, pure mental fatigue, was pretty telling. I mean, you have an owner talking Stanley Cup out one side of the mouth and slavish loyalty to The Way We've Always Done It out the other. But, hell, the players also reaped the rewards of that philosophy of not having to earn anything. What message did it send when the players got that fancy new lockerroom and all the kid glove treatment we hear about that's part of the "Pegula Way"? /grasping These are good questions. One reason I worry neurotically about hidden reasons behind the tank is that I look at who Pegula's advisers are. A buddy accountant, that buddy's buddy lawyer/TV exec, that buddy's former boss, a finance guy in the league and for Pitt. The only legit hockey guy is Craig Patrick, and he's arguably another crony who needed a job in the twilight of his career. What motivates three of the four guys, who make their living and reputation counting beans? You're telling me the knowledge that costs could be dramatically cut without hurting revenues much doesn't make corporate types in 2014 get major Woody? The crack about Terry laying hands on the guy with the crutches in that picture was born out of a smirk on my face when first seeing it. Look at the billionaire smiling as the peasants file in for overpriced coffee and sweets. Suckers! WNY fear and loathing of the wealthy. Must be. If Pegula did that, how can you possibly still support him or think he's a good owner or think he's going to lead us to a Cup? I'm not about to go down the rabbit hole. My take. There was a fire sale. Now It is a bad roster with a coach of limited abilities. The strengths of the Organization are in picks and prospects and hopefully a GM with some ability and a plan, and an owner willing to spend when winning has meaning again. That simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 50% or so of this board are giddy, the balance, including me are flat out disgusted. Lol, that's about it. No matter what I will be a Sabres fan five years from now, and THAT team is looking good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 I missed this last night. Dirty, dirty Sidney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX1R9hvw3y4&feature=youtu.be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 I'm not about to go down the rabbit hole. My take. There was a fire sale. Now It is a bad roster with a coach of limited abilities. The strengths of the Organization are in picks and prospects and hopefully a GM with some ability and a plan, and an owner willing to spend when winning has meaning again. That simple. I hope you're right. How do we calculate the odds of coming back from these depths to win a Cup in a reasonable time? Picks and prospects, every team has them, perhaps not in quite the number we do. A first-time GM? Been lots of those. Lots of owners are filthy rich and want to win. I'll peg the odds at less than 10%. Compare to how close this generally respected franchise has gotten over the years using a lean, modest, small-market approach, pinned on a philosophy of doing more with less, being proud, wanting to win for a hockey town. 75, 80, 83 maybe, 93?, 98, 99, 01, 06, 07... Speaking of Murray, despite all the talk that Nolan is just a placeholder until the team gets good, maybe Murray is just that, too. Young guy getting his first shot is handed his marching orders on the way into town. He's doing someone else's bidding. Is he the GM when a Cup is won? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 I hope you're right. How do we calculate the odds of coming back from these depths to win a Cup in a reasonable time? Picks and prospects, every team has them, perhaps not in quite the number we do. A first-time GM? Been lots of those. Lots of owners are filthy rich and want to win. I'll peg the odds at less than 10%. Compare to how close this generally respected franchise has gotten over the years using a lean, modest, small-market approach, pinned on a philosophy of doing more with less, being proud, wanting to win for a hockey town. 75, 80, 83 maybe, 93?, 98, 99, 01, 06, 07... Speaking of Murray, despite all the talk that Nolan is just a placeholder until the team gets good, maybe Murray is just that, too. Young guy getting his first shot is handed his marching orders on the way into town. He's doing someone else's bidding. Is he the GM when a Cup is won? Odds of winning a cup even with a great team are poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Odds of winning a cup even with a great team are poor. Thanks, Ter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 I hope you're right. How do we calculate the odds of coming back from these depths to win a Cup in a reasonable time? Picks and prospects, every team has them, perhaps not in quite the number we do. A first-time GM? Been lots of those. Lots of owners are filthy rich and want to win. I'll peg the odds at less than 10%. Compare to how close this generally respected franchise has gotten over the years using a lean, modest, small-market approach, pinned on a philosophy of doing more with less, being proud, wanting to win for a hockey town. 75, 80, 83 maybe, 93?, 98, 99, 01, 06, 07... Speaking of Murray, despite all the talk that Nolan is just a placeholder until the team gets good, maybe Murray is just that, too. Young guy getting his first shot is handed his marching orders on the way into town. He's doing someone else's bidding. Is he the GM when a Cup is won? Great post. This has been my concern all along. You have a rookie GM whose first venture on his own is probably one if the biggest complete rebuilds the league has seen. Yet, some are confident he has the tools and knowledge to do this. Now if I am a billionaire owner who wants to byild a Cup winner do I pick a rookie GM to do this?? No, I go out and buy the best PROVEN GM that money can buy me. Yes he has made billions and is a great businessman. I just highly doubt he got that way by putting rookie, unproven men in positions that would dictate his business for years to come. THIS is why I think he is in over his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 (edited) 50% or so of this board are giddy, the balance, including me are flat out disgusted. color me Giddy! Don't know why anyone would be tough on Terry. Its takes guts to allow his team to be stripped of all its so called "stars" and receive draft picks in return. Its takes financial commitment to know his building may not be full for a few years with no chance to make money off lucrative play-off games. It takes thick skin to know his team will plummet to last place and become the laughing stock of the league. How is the Tank not better than year after year of spinning your wheels in mediocrity? If you like being a team chasing 8th place year after year and getting nowhere ill introduce you to the Toronto Maple Leafs - now there is an ownership group that should be criticized. One day the Laughing Will Stop. Edited November 2, 2014 by Crusader1969 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Great post. This has been my concern all along. You have a rookie GM whose first venture on his own is probably one if the biggest complete rebuilds the league has seen. Yet, some are confident he has the tools and knowledge to do this. Now if I am a billionaire owner who wants to byild a Cup winner do I pick a rookie GM to do this?? No, I go out and buy the best PROVEN GM that money can buy me. Yes he has made billions and is a great businessman. I just highly doubt he got that way by putting rookie, unproven men in positions that would dictate his business for years to come. THIS is why I think he is in over his head. Tim Murray has a solid hockey pedigree as does Craig Patrick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 After PLF left, someone please remind me, who is the President of this "organization" now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Great post. This has been my concern all along. You have a rookie GM whose first venture on his own is probably one if the biggest complete rebuilds the league has seen. Yet, some are confident he has the tools and knowledge to do this. Now if I am a billionaire owner who wants to byild a Cup winner do I pick a rookie GM to do this?? No, I go out and buy the best PROVEN GM that money can buy me. Yes he has made billions and is a great businessman. I just highly doubt he got that way by putting rookie, unproven men in positions that would dictate his business for years to come. THIS is why I think he is in over his head. Some here will say, well, Patty hired Murray. I doubt it. Didn't Joe Battista go along for the ride to Ottawa? And it was really odd how Craig Patrick showed up at the last minute for Patty's presser. Someone's behind the curtain masterminding all this. I'm coming around to the idea that that someone is Ken Sawyer, Terry's second cousin and old horseshoes partner. After PLF left, someone please remind me, who is the President of this "organization" now? Good question. They really are making it up as they go. But let me say this: Everything changes, everything, if the Sabres are lucky enough to get Connor McDavid. Everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 I missed this last night. Dirty, dirty Sidney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX1R9hvw3y4&feature=youtu.be And again, where was the retaliation? Somebody should have boarded the hell out of Crosby for that and made him pay. The officials seem to have special Crosby rules - just like the NFL has Tom Brady rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Tim Murray has a solid hockey pedigree as does Craig Patrick. Heard some stuff about the latter from a friend who works for the Preds. Not everyone has a high opinion of Patrick. I was told he is basically everyone's "drinking buddy." Not sure of the truth of that, of course. My thought on a GM is any one of us on this board could put together a terrible team and then we could all figure out that we should draft McEichel 1st or 2nd overall. A trained monkey could do that. Pegula could do that himself and save a GM's salary. Personally, I'd like to see a little more thoughtfulness out of Murray at this point. Dumping players for picks isn't difficult. "Tanking" is easy. I need to see some of his personnel moves pay off before I buy in to Murray as being the right guy for the job. So far, Meszaros, Benoit, Gionta, Strachan, and McCormick just aren't doing it for me... although I do like the Moulson signing, even though he has been terrible thus far this year. And again, where was the retaliation? Somebody should have boarded the hell out of Crosby for that and made him pay. The officials seem to have special Crosby rules - just like the NFL has Tom Brady rules. Crosby is untouchable since he is a marketing gem for the league. Weber was penalized for giving a clean check to Cindy Crosby. Totally ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 I missed this last night. Dirty, dirty Sidney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX1R9hvw3y4&feature=youtu.be What a snot nosed brat. Weber was beside himself on the bench apparently. If I were Weber I would have left the bench and pounded that snot nosed brat into Sunday morning. Screw the ramifications of such an action. This team needs to be accountable for each other. The game ... the season is over. What else do they have? Who the hell was on the ice at that time? Sit 'em all. If you don't defend your team mates, especially your goalie, you do not belong on this, or any team ... pee wee teams, like the Sabres, included. Angry NS reporting for duty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bunomatic Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 color me Giddy! Don't know why anyone would be tough on Terry. Its takes guts to allow his team to be stripped of all its so called "stars" and receive draft picks in return. Its takes financial commitment to know his building may not be full for a few years with no chance to make money off lucrative play-off games. It takes thick skin to know his team will plummet to last place and become the laughing stock of the league. How is the Tank not better than year after year of spinning your wheels in mediocrity? If you like being a team chasing 8th place year after year and getting nowhere ill introduce you to the Toronto Maple Leafs - now there is an ownership group that should be criticized. One day the Laughing Will Stop. This is where I'm at. It sucks to lose but I'm used to it from following this team for 40 years. Draft picks and high end prospects are currency in this league. We have collected more currency than any other team and we have more coming. As someone else pointed out we also have cap space in the coming years. Lots of it. This will turn around. I'm sure of it. The absolute worse we can do is end up right back where we started. In that case all the people whining about not being mediocre anymore can dance in the streets again. I've set my hopes a little higher then that. Golfing every spring sucks but thats what we did under the old regime anyways. If GMTM and the rest of the management group get this right the Sabres new stars golf games will suffer from lack of playing time. Thats what I'm talkin about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 This is where I'm at. It sucks to lose but I'm used to it from following this team for 40 years. You're not used to this though. This is a whole nother animal. What a snot nosed brat. Weber was beside himself on the bench apparently. If I were Weber I would have left the bench and pounded that snot nosed brat into Sunday morning. Screw the ramifications of such an action. This team needs to be accountable for each other. The game ... the season is over. What else do they have? Who the hell was on the ice at that time? Sit 'em all. If you don't defend your team mates, especially your goalie, you do not belong on this, or any team ... pee wee teams, like the Sabres, included. Angry NS reporting for duty. Myers should have seen it. He might be the only one on the ice with a view of it, including the ref in the corner (and Fleury if he was looking that way). Doesn't matter. Weber saw it and the word should have spread. Has this franchise ever learned that there's a goalie at the other end, too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 After PLF left, someone please remind me, who is the President of this "organization" now? If I remember correctly, that position did not exist prior to PLF -- they created it specifically for him. So when he left, they decided not to hire anyone else into a position that was (IMO) largely just a figurehead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 As per the Sabres web site ... Theodore N. Black is President of the Sabres. http://sabres.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=36588 *President For Life* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 As per the Sabres web site ... Theodore N. Black is President of the Sabres. http://sabres.nhl.co...ge.htm?id=36588 *President For Life* The N stands for Nowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaught Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 You're not used to this though. This is a whole nother animal. Myers should have seen it. He might be the only one on the ice with a view of it, including the ref in the corner (and Fleury if he was looking that way). Doesn't matter. Weber saw it and the word should have spread. Has this franchise ever learned that there's a goalie at the other end, too? To be fair, Hodgson flopped into Fleury towards the end of the game with no ramifications. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 As per the Sabres web site ... Theodore N. Black is President of the Sabres. http://sabres.nhl.co...ge.htm?id=36588 *President For Life* Ah, my mistake for not clarifying... wasn't PLF President of "Hockey Operations" and not of the Sabres? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Ah, my mistake for not clarifying... wasn't PLF President of "Hockey Operations" and not of the Sabres? You are correct, oh red headed one. *President NOT For Life* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted November 2, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 And again, where was the retaliation? Somebody should have boarded the hell out of Crosby for that and made him pay. The officials seem to have special Crosby rules - just like the NFL has Tom Brady rules. Weber did give Crosby a shove later in the game and received a roughing penalty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted November 2, 2014 Report Share Posted November 2, 2014 Ah, my mistake for not clarifying... wasn't PLF President of "Hockey Operations" and not of the Sabres? That's right. "Hockey Operations" has nothing to do with the Sabres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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