Who do you want to be here for the future?

[Drunkard]

 

 

If half of this were true then this team wouldn't be last in the league two seasons in a row.

 

The problem is that since we don't have the top level talent to play our other guys can't play where they really belong because of our lack of centers in particular.

 

I think Ennis would be much more effective as a winger on the 2nd line rather than top line center. Moulson will be more effective playing with a stud like Eichel rather than a guy like Ennis. Stewart would also be more effective playing either with a better center or on a lower line against easier competition.

 

Weber would definitely be more effective playing against lesser competition or with a better guy to be paired with.

 

Most of the rest of the guys I argue to keep are 4th liners other than Myers with Gorges but I think they make a good pairing.

 

 

[Robviously]

If half of this were true then this team wouldn't be last in the league two seasons in a row.

Which parts do you disagree with?

[LastPommerFan]

If half of this were true then this team wouldn't be last in the league two seasons in a row.

 

It can all be true and we'd still be last in the league. 4th liners, some ok 3rd liners, a couple scorers who need help from their line-mates, and one good D-pair sounds just like the recipe for DFL.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[Robviously]

It can all be true and we'd still be last in the league. 4th liners, some ok 3rd liners, a couple scorers who need help from their line-mates, and one good D-pair sounds just like the recipe for DFL.

I just re-read it and I think I agree with every assessment in there. Maybe the Myers and Stewart ones are a bit optimistic but they're not nuts.

[Johnny DangerFace]

I don't care for mccormick even on the 4th line

[Hoss]

 

Which parts do you disagree with?

 

The concept of keeping Kaleta, McCormick AND Deslauriers. Only one at most. That's a terrible line if that's your 4th. I can't say I "disagree" that Myers is a good pairing with Gorges but that's an absolutely terrible reason to keep somebody for the future. Same with the other side of that pairing, but there are far better reasons to keep Gorges than being a good pair with 6'400 tall candy man.

[Assquatch]

No Zadorov?

[Drunkard]

 

 

The concept of keeping Kaleta, McCormick AND Deslauriers. Only one at most. That's a terrible line if that's your 4th. I can't say I "disagree" that Myers is a good pairing with Gorges but that's an absolutely terrible reason to keep somebody for the future. Same with the other side of that pairing, but there are far better reasons to keep Gorges than being a good pair with 6'400 tall candy man.

 

You can't replace an entire team though and at this point those are the ones from the list that I'd keep and I think they'd play better when put on the appropriate line. Myers and Gorges have played well together. The main problems with this defense seem to be Meszaros, Benoit, and when Weber has been put on too high of a line and asked to do too much. The fact that most of our forwards seem to play poor defensively also hurts them.

 

Not all of our prospects are going to reach their potential either and there are risks with free agents and making trades as well. The best way to turn this team around is to upgrade the worst pieces rather than focusing on middling ones. Replacing Meszaros and Benoit with solid d-men will help this team more than upgrading Myers if those guys are still here and it will be much easier to do.

 

I think Psysk and McCabe are already upgrades over Meszaros and Benoit but I'm OK with them staying in Rochester and coming up after we dump those guys at the trade deadline. I'm not certain either of them is better than Myers though so you replace your weakest players and it should upgrade the team.

 

When you find true studs and top upgrades you can slide others down the line and hopefully the demotion helps them too. Just because Ennis isn't a good top line center doesn't mean he has no place on this team. Getting Eichel not only gives us a true top line center but it keeps us from having to play Ennis there. So Ennis slides to the second line and you hope he can move back to the wing because Grigorenko or Reinhart prove to be better there.

 

As for the 4th line I'm not really sure what you expect. I think the guys I chose from the list are good 4th liners but if there are obvious upgrades or 3rd liners who get bumped down by better incoming talent I'm not married to them just like I'm not married to any player on the roster. At this point they are the least of our worries though because those guys can make a legitimate 4th line in the NHL. I can't say that about our other lines though.

[Rasmus_]

Girgensons, Ennis, Moulson, Gorges, Myers, and Deslauriers are whom I listed from those above.

[Hoss]

 

 

You can't replace an entire team though and at this point those are the ones from the list that I'd keep and I think they'd play better when put on the appropriate line. Myers and Gorges have played well together. The main problems with this defense seem to be Meszaros, Benoit, and when Weber has been put on too high of a line and asked to do too much. The fact that most of our forwards seem to play poor defensively also hurts them.

 

Not all of our prospects are going to reach their potential either and there are risks with free agents and making trades as well. The best way to turn this team around is to upgrade the worst pieces rather than focusing on middling ones. Replacing Meszaros and Benoit with solid d-men will help this team more than upgrading Myers if those guys are still here and it will be much easier to do.

 

I think Psysk and McCabe are already upgrades over Meszaros and Benoit but I'm OK with them staying in Rochester and coming up after we dump those guys at the trade deadline. I'm not certain either of them is better than Myers though so you replace your weakest players and it should upgrade the team.

 

When you find true studs and top upgrades you can slide others down the line and hopefully the demotion helps them too. Just because Ennis isn't a good top line center doesn't mean he has no place on this team. Getting Eichel not only gives us a true top line center but it keeps us from having to play Ennis there. So Ennis slides to the second line and you hope he can move back to the wing because Grigorenko or Reinhart prove to be better there.

 

As for the 4th line I'm not really sure what you expect. I think the guys I chose from the list are good 4th liners but if there are obvious upgrades or 3rd liners who get bumped down by better incoming talent I'm not married to them just like I'm not married to any player on the roster. At this point they are the least of our worries though because those guys can make a legitimate 4th line in the NHL. I can't say that about our other lines though.

 

Good post overall. I don't disagree that upgrading guys like Meszaros and Benoit will be a huge help to the whole squad, but I would argue that isn't really a factor in this discussion since it's going to happen regardless of whether or not Myers is here.

 

I also disagree with the notion that you can't replace the entire team -- in two ways. First - You actually can, pretty much, replace the entire team. Second - I'm not saying they should, though. Guys like Moulson, Girgensons, Gorges, Risto, Zadorov, Neuvirth and maybe Ennis are likely here for a while. Then you can add guys like Pysyk, McCabe, Grigorenko, Reinhart, Armia and a few of the college guys/other prospects and you've got a good group to start with.

[Drunkard]

 

 

Good post overall. I don't disagree that upgrading guys like Meszaros and Benoit will be a huge help to the whole squad, but I would argue that isn't really a factor in this discussion since it's going to happen regardless of whether or not Myers is here.

 

I also disagree with the notion that you can't replace the entire team -- in two ways. First - You actually can, pretty much, replace the entire team. Second - I'm not saying they should, though. Guys like Moulson, Girgensons, Gorges, Risto, Zadorov, Neuvirth and maybe Ennis are likely here for a while. Then you can add guys like Pysyk, McCabe, Grigorenko, Reinhart, Armia and a few of the college guys/other prospects and you've got a good group to start with.

 

Ok, so you keep Gorges and replace Myers, but with who and how can you be sure it'll be an upgrade? It's easy to say replace them all but much harder to do it and actually improve the team.

 

We don't have enough good defensive prospects if you factor in that Ristolainen and Zadarov are already here and Psysk and McCabe are needed to replace Meszaros and Benoit because they are definitely worse than Myers. So are we banking on Ruhwedel to replace Myers? Are we going to back up a Brinks Truck to someone in free agency? Will we create another hole by trading something else of value to bring one in? Draft another guy in the first round and wait for them to develop.

 

I'm not hell bent on keeping Myers here or anything. I think he plays soft for his size and I'm tired of his token clutch and grab instead of him rag dolling the opposition to defend his team mates, but we've got bigger roster issues than him and the 4th line to focus on for sure. And I hope Murray is thinking the same way.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Drunkard

[Robviously]

I voted back when this thread started and I had:

Deslaurier

Foligno

Gionta

Girgensons

Kaleta

Moulson

Gorges

 

Not sure why I didn't click Ennis since I've never really been down on him. I'm ready to move Myers for the right return.

 

I still like Foligno -- he and Deslaurier are pretty similar (same age, same style). Foligno has 50 hits in 13 games and Deslaurier has 65 hits in 19 games. I just wish he could stay healthy because he's always battling something. Obviously these guys could be great 4th liners but I also think if you were trying to construct a shut-down checking 3rd line, they have the potential to play wing there as well.

 

Kaleta -- 4th line all the way but when you're trying to change the culture, he's exactly what you'd want. Has he ever mailed it in?

 

Gionta -- not sure he has anything left in the tank at this point.

 

Gorges -- defends teammates, block shots. Yes, please.

 

Moulson -- despite his terrible start, people forgot how consistently good he's been over the years. I like the idea of Reinhart getting him the puck.

 

Girgensons -- he's good now and he's still probably ~3 years from hitting his prime.

 

Also, how far out are we projecting? I was just thinking the next 3 years or so when we're turning things around. And that actually makes me want Stewart here as well. We're breaking in a lot of rookies the next couple years and I want someone around to police the ice. The fact that he challenged Lucic to a fight just to pump up his team is still incredible to me after watching the last few seasons.

 

Neuvirth in net, BTW.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Robviously

[Hoss]

 

 

Ok, so you keep Gorges and replace Myers, but with who and how can you be sure it'll be an upgrade? It's easy to say replace them all but much harder to do it and actually improve the team.

 

We don't have enough good defensive prospects if you factor in that Ristolainen and Zadarov are already here and Psysk and McCabe are needed to replace Meszaros and Benoit because they are definitely worse than Myers. So are we banking on Ruhwedel to replace Myers? Are we going to back up a Brinks Truck to someone in free agency? Will we create another hole by trading something else of value to bring one in? Draft another guy in the first round and wait for them to develop.

 

I'm not hell bent on keeping Myers here or anything. I think he plays soft for his size and I'm tired of his token clutch and grab instead of him rag dolling the opposition to defend his team mates, but we've got bigger roster issues than him and the 4th line to focus on for sure. And I hope Murray is thinking the same way.

 

Yes, we do have bigger issues. Which is why a guy like Myers could be used to help fill some holes. When you trade a player away you do get players in return. So Myers would head out and somebody else (hopefully a forward) comes in. You fix one major problem by dealing from a position of strength. Myers leaves and the defense still has Gorges, Risto, Zadorov, McCabe, Pysyk and Weber. I'm not confident in that top six yet as many are prospects with a long way to go, but I don't feel anymore confident with Myers in the mix. Ideally you bring in a strong vet (not an aging castoff) to that group and move Weber to the 7th dman who can rotate when a young one needs a rest.

[Stoner]

I thought I heard discussion of Gorges' injury on WGR last night as being so bad he could be done as a Sabre.

[Hoss]

I thought I heard discussion of Gorges' injury on WGR last night as being so bad he could be done as a Sabre.

 

"Weeks not days." Doubt it's career ending.