Current Carrion Hockey League Standings

[Stoner]

I also believe tanking never was about only McEichel. Some may have become enamored with it because of them, but the logic of the tank persists regardless of whether there's a generational player(s) coming out or not.

 

Why don't more teams tank?

 

Are the Sabres even tanking? The choice of Nolan, surely approved by those above LaFontaine, remains an odd one for a franchise that's supposedly tanking. Everyone know what Nolan does, and he's doing it again.

[3putt]

Time for a roll call.

What is everyone's current stance on the tank?

 

I was for the wholesale sell-off of the core.

Now that that is over, I'm for using those assets to build a Stanley Cup team.

I'd love McEichel, but it has to happen organically.

I believe deliberately trying to lose this season to get him is a bad move.

It sends the wrong message with too little chance for success.

 

I fully support the tradeoff of parts that aren't going to fit here long-term for parts that might be.

Finishing 23rd does not doom us to 10 more years of Darcy hockey.

I am unabashedly pro tank to the point that I think they should run a contest on WGR where a random caller gets to start in goal that night. We shed ourselves of the aging core and kept pieces to ice a team. Those pieces, i.e. Myers, Ennis, Stafford Enroth etc., to me are expendable for a reasonable price. I think that rebuilding must be approached with the same zeal as "going for it." Imagine if the situation was the team was a solid top 5 team with a few surprise injuries, but available rentals to overfill the void. This board would be on fire if the response was "we think we can get past the first round and really value our picks prospects." Everyone would be demanding they go all in because you never know when you might be in such a good position again. This draft is similar. After that business as usual.

[JJFIVEOH]

I qualified his "consistency" because he just played his 100th game. 4 years of spot duty is a small sample size to determine he is one of the most consistent goalies in the league.

 

Tell me, what sample size is good enough for you? I've been hearing "sample size" for 5 years now to go along with "he's not good enough to play in a starting role" and "can he handle the work load?". He's managed to keep a consistent save percentage year after year, he's now even better now that he's been put in that starting role, he was good when he was in starting roles previously when Miller was hurt and he's now ranked 13th all-time on the Sabres list in games played.

 

The fact that he held the save percentage that he did when he was in a backup role is even more proof that he can do the job. Who can come in and hold save percentage in the mid to high .910's as a backup? Hell, Miller could barely do that as a starter. At some point you guys gotta give it up and say, OK he's played enough to prove himself. Get over the Flutie Syndrome and give the guy some credit. :P

[X. Benedict]

Time for a roll call.

What is everyone's current stance on the tank?

 

I was for the wholesale sell-off of the core.

Now that that is over, I'm for using those assets to build a Stanley Cup team.

I'd love McEichel, but it has to happen organically.

I believe deliberately trying to lose this season to get him is a bad move.

It sends the wrong message with too little chance for success.

 

I fully support the tradeoff of parts that aren't going to fit here long-term for parts that might be.

Finishing 23rd does not doom us to 10 more years of Darcy hockey.

 

This is still a rebuild. I want the team to win when I watch. I don't know how else to watch.

 

Winning can help.

 

However, I also think winning raises the value of the assets that you already have and makes them more liquid.

For example.....(and I'm not suggesting he needs to be traded) But if you were to packaging Enroth with a forward, he would bring a better return now than 4 weeks ago.

 

Oh, and I do think this is bad roster on a good run. There will be plenty of losing to come. Every team leaves Buffalo thinking.....'But we outplayed them!"

Edited December 12, 2014 by X. Benedict

[Taro T]

Current standings through games played 12/11.

 

Team ----- GP - L - W - OT - PTS

Edmonton 29 17 7 5 39

Carolina 28 17 8 3 37

Arizona 29 16 10 3 35

Buffalo 29 16 11 2 34

Columbus 28 15 11 2 32

Colorado 29 13 10 6 32

Winnipeg 30 9 15 6 24

Florida 26 8 11 7 23

 

Only Florida and Edmonton in action tonight. Cats close to relegation. Desperately in need of points tonight and tomorrow. Would be nice to see Eulers let some points slip away.

 

Close to next round of relegation (waiting for 30 from everyone). Jests and Cats likely to drop back to NHL. Filly, Joisey, and No Stars all 3 games over 0.500 right now. At least 2 likely to get admittance to this exclusive club. Just need to find out which ones REALLY want it.

[WildCard]

Time for a roll call.

What is everyone's current stance on the tank?

 

I was for the wholesale sell-off of the core.

Now that that is over, I'm for using those assets to build a Stanley Cup team.

I'd love McEichel, but it has to happen organically.

I believe deliberately trying to lose this season to get him is a bad move.

It sends the wrong message with too little chance for success.

 

I fully support the tradeoff of parts that aren't going to fit here long-term for parts that might be.

Finishing 23rd does not doom us to 10 more years of Darcy hockey.

Its McEichel or bust for me 100%. Other picks will be nice, but still a huge disappointment. I want them to tank, but not to do it the Edmonton way. Right now, every stat we have besides goaltending is going the CHL way for us. I still have faith, but with Edmonton and bunch now in full scale contention, we can't afford these wins

[3putt]

Tell me, what sample size is good enough for you? I've been hearing "sample size" for 5 years now to go along with "he's not good enough to play in a starting role" and "can he handle the work load?". He's managed to keep a consistent save percentage year after year, he's now even better now that he's been put in that starting role, he was good when he was in starting roles previously when Miller was hurt and he's now ranked 13th all-time on the Sabres list in games played.

 

The fact that he held the save percentage that he did when he was in a backup role is even more proof that he can do the job. Who can come in and hold save percentage in the mid to high .910's as a backup? Hell, Miller could barely do that as a starter. At some point you guys gotta give it up and say, OK he's played enough to prove himself. Get over the Flutie Syndrome and give the guy some credit. :P

Oh I am willing to give the guy some credit, he is single-handedly derailing the tank and has been other worldly the last 6 weeks or so. I think the pressure of starting 50-60 games a year is a bit different than spelling the starter 10-15 times a year. I think the back up gets the benefit of a team realizing the starter is not in there and they need to tighten things up. That said he has been great this year. I am one of the few who believe that goaltending is the easiest thing to find via trade or FA. Also it is the last thing needed in a rebuild. Put your O and D together and it will determine the level of goaltender you need. Crawford and Niemi won Cups with the hawks and they are good but not all world tenders. Also I think the praise is a recent phenomenon, in October it was Neuvirth's team and Enroth sucking wind. Funny how things change so quickly. Edited December 12, 2014 by 3putt

[Derrico]

I've moved away from my position of McEichle or bust (mainly because I think this streak along with Edmonton's play has screwed us out of it) but I still want to see a top 5 pick. The D on this team in two or three years could be scary good. We need another high level goal scorer IMO.

[Claude_Verret]

I will remain 100% committed to pursuing the Shart until we are mathematically eliminated from contention. I still believe we are the worst and that it will show over the course of a full CHL season. We haven't driven the tank this far down the road only to turn it around in pursuit of yet another useless DR-like no man's land finish. In GMTM I trust.

[Brawndo]

It was just a few short weeks ago that we looked like one of the worst teams in the history of the league, even worse than last season. Do not be fooled by short term ups and downs within a season--we weren't as bad as our record made us appear then, and we aren't as good as our record makes us appear now. But the fundamentals look as bad now as they did then, we're just getting some fortunate bounces and amazing goaltending. It will not last.

 

 

 

My stance is the current tank is still going to happen, and it doesn't require deliberately mortgaging this season. I believe in the team's fundamentals, which are still dreadful.

 

I also believe tanking never was about only McEichel. Some may have become enamored with it because of them, but the logic of the tank persists regardless of whether there's a generational player(s) coming out or not. As many are quick to remind me, you don't need Crosby to win a Cup...and they're right, and I'll be perfectly happy with "only" a Toews-level player. Getting McEichel is a better outcome than getting Strome to be sure...but let's not pretend getting Strome is somehow bad.

 

I am still outboard with the tank. I have seen the advanced stats which have this version of the Sabres, much worse then last years. Except they are 8 points ahead of where they were last year at this time after the same number of games played. Every year a team outperforms what their Corsi and Fenwick dictates they should be doing, Toronto two seasons ago and Colorado last year, I do not see the Sabres continuing the trend because of their lack of goal scoring.

 

I would only make a trade of core player (Myers) if Murray does not see him as part of the future.

 

If Murray gets a deal he likes on Enroth I would pull the trigger on the trade and try to bring him back after July 1st if he so desires. Enroth has ties here and might entertain the idea. I would have dismissed before Moulson coming back.

 

And you are certainly onto something with Strome. After all he and Baptiste are developing chemistry in Erie right now. They maybe two-thirds of the Sabres top line in three years.

 

 

 

Why don't more teams tank?

 

Are the Sabres even tanking? The choice of Nolan, surely approved by those above LaFontaine, remains an odd one for a franchise that's supposedly tanking. Everyone know what Nolan does, and he's doing it again.

 

Some could argue EDM by having MacTavish come out and say we are staying the course, have their sights set on 30th.

[TrueBlueGED]

Why don't more teams tank?

 

Are the Sabres even tanking? The choice of Nolan, surely approved by those above LaFontaine, remains an odd one for a franchise that's supposedly tanking. Everyone know what Nolan does, and he's doing it again.

 

I think there's two things at work here. One is that more teams tank than you think tank, I think; they just don't come out and say it. Two is that, as I think CV has expanded upon, not every team is in a position with fanbase, finances, and ownership, to actually follow through on a true tank.

 

I am still outboard with the tank. I have seen the advanced stats which have this version of the Sabres, much worse then last years. Except they are 8 points ahead of where they were last year at this time after the same number of games played. Every year a team outperforms what their Corsi and Fenwick dictates they should be doing, Toronto two seasons ago and Colorado last year, I do not see the Sabres continuing the trend because of their lack of goal scoring.

 

Certainly teams can outperform (or underperform) for a season, but Toronto only did so in a lockout-shortened year and Colorado had the elite offensive skill to make it work (and Varlamov played above his talent level). The Sabres don't have the "luxury" of a short season, nor do they have the talent of the Avs. It's not impossible for them to outperform the fundamentals, it's just the smart money is still on them coming back down to Earth.

 

Take Minnesota in 2011-2012 for example. They were the toast of the NHL at the midway point as one of the top teams in the standings in a loaded Western Conference. The spreadsheet nerds kept saying to look at their Fenwick close and PDO, and that they were a good bet to drop off in the second half. What do ya know? They go from being on top of the world to finishing 23rd in the league. And for all of the hoopla over the Sabres current run, they don't have anywhere near as far to fall to the bottom as that Minnesota team.

[dudacek]

I think what Blue is saying is this team is built to win the Shart.

don't panic, let nature take its course.

 

I agree with all of the above, but don't think the Shart is anywhere near a given.

A sure as bacteria lurks in a shin pad, weird things happen, like a midget backup playing like Hasek, or an unheralded Latvian starting the all-star game.

[pi2000]

I'm 100% pro-tank.

 

Buffalo is now 9-6 in 1 goal games. All but 2 of all their wins have been by 1 goal.

 

EDM is 4-12 in 1 goal games, and CAR is 3-12. A bounce here, a bounce there, and Buffalo is atop the CHL. Things will even out as we move along.

 

That said, I expect a 3-way fight between BUF, EDM, and ARI for the Shart. Both EDM and ARI have more talent and better Corsi%'s but they struggle to score goals. The difference right now is goaltending. If their GM's decide to go all in on the tank, then BUF could be in trouble.

[TrueBlueGED]

I think what Blue is saying is this team is built to win the Shart.

don't panic, let nature take its course.

 

I agree with all of the above, but don't think the Shart is anywhere near a given.

A sure as bacteria lurks in a shin pad, weird things happen, like a midget backup playing like Hasek, or an unheralded Latvian starting the all-star game.

 

Yup, that's the beginning and end of it. If I'm handicapping, the Sabres are my favorites to win the Shart. It doesn't mean they will, and there are other legit contenders, but our boys have what it takes!

[IKnowPhysics]

our boys have what it takes!

 

Imagine for a moment how ###### another team has to be to beat us cleanly out of 30th. They're going to have a whole lot more problems than we will trying to get themselves out of that.

[Hoss]

Still all for the tank. The rebuild with them should be a quick one. Without it'll be a long while until this team can compete consistently.

[JJFIVEOH]

It saddens me that some people have gone through such great lengths to support the theory that the Sabres will eventually fail, almost like they're eagerly waiting for that 6-1 loss. Kudos to those who haven't embraced the tank.

[Taro T]

It saddens me that some people have gone through such great lengths to support the theory that the Sabres will eventually fail, almost like they're eagerly waiting for that 6-1 loss. Kudos to those who haven't embraced the tank.

Those of us supporting the tank aren't supporting the theory that the Sabres will eventually fail; we're supporting the eventual success to get here quicker than an 18th place NHL finish will foster.

[Brawndo]

The Oilers are really gunning for the CHL Championship.

 

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/2014/12/12/the-edmonton-oilers-dont-even-seem-to-be-trying-to-address-the-hole-left-by-boyd-gordons-injury/#__federated=1

[Claude_Verret]

It saddens me that some people have gone through such great lengths to support the theory that the Sabres will eventually fail, almost like they're eagerly waiting for that 6-1 loss. Kudos to those who haven't embraced the tank.

 

I don't rejoice when the Sabres lose or get pissed when they win. Almost 40 years a fan with zilch to show for it has made me a detached observer. And this detached observer believes we are indeed the worst and therefore stand a good chance at getting rewarded handsomely for being the worst. That is all.

[JJFIVEOH]

Those of us supporting the tank aren't supporting the theory that the Sabres will eventually fail; we're supporting the eventual success to get here quicker than an 18th place NHL finish will foster.

I don't rejoice when the Sabres lose or get pissed when they win. Almost 40 years a fan with zilch to show for it has made me a detached observer. And this detached observer believes we are indeed the worst and therefore stand a good chance at getting rewarded handsomely for being the worst. That is all.

 

Take my statement for what it's worth. I don't like it. Alas I chose to partake in a thread about losing so it's only my fault that I have to deal with it.

[Taro T]

 

 

 

Take my statement for what it's worth. I don't like it. Alas I chose to partake in a thread about losing so it's only my fault that I have to deal with it.

Don't know what your statement is worth; but don't take umbrage at posters posting in a clearly pro-tank thread taking umbrage at a backhanded shot at them.

[SabresFuture]

Here is why I have been pro-tank and remain pro-tank:

 

I think we can all agree that winning a Stanley Cup (okay, multiple Stanley Cups), is the goal for each of us fans for the Sabres. If that’s not your goal, I can’t help you. When evaluating the data about how teams are built, how they remain successful, and how they are capable of winning multiple Cups as well as being competitive year-after-year, I support the argument that enduring a couple rough seasons to obtain elite players will give us the best chance to do all of the above. It is all about probabilities for me. Of course there is talent everywhere in the draft - sometimes teams get lucky (Tom Brady and the Patriots in the 6th round). But the top of the NHL draft in particular consistently produces star-caliber players. I think it can be argued that tanking can turn a team around quickly in a normal year, but it’s much more difficult to sell than one with elite prospects. That’s why I think the Sabres picked a great time to rebuild - the 2015 draft is being hailed as one of the best in recent memory, with McDavid and Eichel as the two star prizes. “Talents that can turn a franchise around” is constantly what I hear from all parts of the scouting world. Could everybody be wrong and could they bust? It’s possible, but the likelihood isn’t great. I love the Sabres and want to see them success long-term - I want to see them in the playoffs year-after-year. That’s why I don’t want to see the team this year (which doesn’t boast many players that will likely be here long-term) fight to 20th place. Yes, we could still turn it around with the amount of prospects in the system, but the probability is much higher if we can score McDavid or Eichel. I want my favorite team to have one of the league’s stars for once. I will reference football one more time. I’m pretty confident that Colts fans are happy that they lost all of those games the season Manning got injured so that they could draft Luck. They will be competitive for the next decade now with him leading their team. I want that type of player in Buffalo, and for once we have a legitimate shot of landing one of these guys. Believe me, I hate losing as much as any of you do. That’s why I want to win long-term - and the best way to do that, in my opinion, is to endure this last year of suffering to obtain the piece that will put us in a position to succeed more quickly than the alternative.

[JJFIVEOH]

Don't know what your statement is worth; but don't take umbrage at posters posting in a clearly pro-tank thread taking umbrage at a backhanded shot at them.

 

You'll get over it.

[Taro T]

 

 

Did I not clearly state that? There are pro-tank posts in every other thread on this forum, I don't think it's out of line to add one opinion to a pro-tank thread. Especially when I clearly mentioned I was quite aware of what I did. If you're going to criticize me for an anti-tank post in a pro-tank thread, I should expect that you'll speak up for the pro-tank posts in every other thread.............. right?

Except your post wasn't about the tank - it was about the posters supporting the tank. (Some people 'sadden' you, right?)

 

If you want to whine about the posters, please start your own thread and leave mine alone.

 

I can't (and won't) speak for other posters, but I'd be VERY surprised if I've posted more than a handful of 'pro-tank' posts in non-tank threads and expect the majority are of the - boy, I can't wait until them winning games is actually a long term good thing again. This pro-tanker has tried to play nice. It might be a good idea for you to try to do likewise.