sicknfla Posted November 30, 2014 Report Posted November 30, 2014 Heh, his point was that in order to stay competitive, every team in the NHL tries to find ways to add elite talent in addition to the draft, because many won't be able to do it through the draft. The problem isn't unique to us, nor is any attempt at a solution to said problem. I got ya but my point was more only in Buffalo can we go into a two-year tank trying to convince the fans of the importance of a McEichle. Then we find a way to screw that up as well. I have never been a total pro tanker but i see absolutely no benefit from picking anywhere other than 1 or 2 at this point. We need that top guy. Reinhart is not it. If he is the top prize of the rebuild we are in trouble.
IKnowPhysics Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) I don't really wanna pick this apart, but I'm gonna. That's not going to work. Sure it will. Trading Mitchell, Kaleta, Meszaros, and Benoit might actually *improve* the team by clearing room for Armia, Grigorenko, Pysyk, and McCabe (or Ruhwedel). Those guys are playing in Rochester for a reason- they need to develop. Those kids will eventually be good, but they're not going to contribute much in the short term to the big club, and yes, that means they'd be worse than Meszaros. And those 4 players definitely aren't why we're doing well right now (actually the opposite in the case of Meszaros and Benoit). I agree, but no amount of coaching motivation is going to make Armia elevate his talent to score in the NHL or give McCabe instantly better vision, not right away. Trading Stewart and Stafford for future assets would make us worse right now (and will probably happen) but is that enough to make us the worst team in the league when you have Columbus, Edmonton, and Philly all in free fall? I doubt it. I disagree. I think our basement is much deeper than those teams, should Murray choose to delve there. And there's no way we're trading both Enroth and Neuvirth (which, if we did it right now, probably would assure us of a 30th place finish). We should trade one of them and sign the other to an extension (probably Neuvirth) and I actually think the return would be decent. Of course we won't trade both, that'd hurt the franchise long term by taking a huge gamble on the unlikely ability to acquire a franchise goalie via trade or an even more unlikely UFA signing. So unfortunately I don't think the Sabres can realistically make trades to keep us in the bottom three (and probably not the bottom 5). I'm not convinced. I think Murray could gut this team easily. He traded the captain, leading scorer, and franchise goaltender of this team, in the face of PLF, without batting eye. Related: If you're the GM of the Oilers and you're trying to keep your job, how are you not on the phone with Buffalo every day until you have Enroth or Neuvirth? I think most of Edmonton's problems stem from major holes at defense, which makes their average goalies look really, really bad. But more importantly to this conversation: you can't have it both ways. You can't be guaranteeing Edmonton's improvement while simultaneously declaring their total demise. Each of these basement teams has a choice to make: tank or try to win games. We're in tank mode. Does MacT lose his job to secure the draft picks? Columbus is so badly injured right now that they're likely to bounce back- I don't think Kekalainen wants to tank. In Philly, the press is already outraged and, in all likelihood, Crag Berube will be out. They'll hire up (Bylsma?), and could get themselves out of trouble. Edited December 1, 2014 by IKnowPhysics
Robviously Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 I don't really wanna pick this apart, but I'm gonna. I don't really want to pick apart your picking apart, but.... Those guys are playing in Rochester for a reason- they need to develop. Those kids will eventually be good, but they're not going to contribute much in the short term to the big club, and yes, that means they'd be worse than Meszaros. I agree, but no amount of coaching motivation is going to make Armia elevate his talent to score in the NHL or give McCabe instantly better vision, not right away. Both Pysyk and McCabe were better with the Sabres last year than Meszaros and Benoit have been this year. Each has struggled to start this year but I have a hard time believing they would be worse than our two worst players this year. Armia and Grigorenko both upped their games this year and each easily has a higher ceiling than anything we're going to ever get from Kaleta and Mitchell. Is it really that hard to imagine these guys could make us better or, at least, the same if any of Meszaros, Benoit, Kaleta, or Mitchell is moved? I disagree. I think our basement is much deeper than those teams, should Murray choose to delve there. What Edmonton, Columbus, and Philly have this year, and what the Sabres had last year, is dysfunction. For all the Sabres problems, they aren't a dysfunctional team this year. Last year all the veterans were waiting to be traded and all the young players were just along for the ride (after being rushed to the NHL). This year most of the good veterans (Moulson, Gorges, Gionta, Ennis, Myers) are here for the long haul and the young players (Girgensons, Risto, Zadorov) are leading us to wins. Of course we won't trade both, that'd hurt the franchise long term by taking a huge gamble on the unlikely ability to acquire a franchise goalie via trade or an even more unlikely UFA signing. We're agreed on this point. I'm not convinced. I think Murray could gut this team easily. He traded the captain, leading scorer, and franchise goaltender of this team, in the face of PLF, without batting eye. This is actually part of *my* point. Last year we had key guys to unload via firesale -- and they were just waiting for that firesale to happen. This year we don't have nearly the caliber of players to move. I think most of Edmonton's problems stem from major holes at defense, which makes their average goalies look really, really bad. But more importantly to this conversation: you can't have it both ways. You can't be guaranteeing Edmonton's improvement while simultaneously declaring their total demise. This is the only part of your response that pisses me off because I don't guarantee Edmonton's improvement *or* declare their total demise at any point above. I actually don't think I've ever "guaranteed" anything on this board. As for Edmonton's total demise, they're in free fall and it's likely to end how it usually does, but they could still salvage this season with some significant moves. I doubt they'll make big trades and get a fresh start, but it's still possible. I do think Edmonton's goaltending is atrocious this year from the few games I've seen. Each of these basement teams has a choice to make: tank or try to win games. We're in tank mode. Does MacT lose his job to secure the draft picks? Columbus is so badly injured right now that they're likely to bounce back- I don't think Kekalainen wants to tank. In Philly, the press is already outraged and, in all likelihood, Crag Berube will be out. They'll hire up (Bylsma?), and could get themselves out of trouble. Let's hope.
Taro T Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Posted December 1, 2014 So you guys gonna keep this thing going? You could delete the thread now and save yourselves a lot of disappointment. Learn to settle for less. "We Are Buffalo." Yep. Been sicker than a dog since Friday AM. Thanks to Tank for keeping the thread updated. I'll get back to it in a day or 2.
pi2000 Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 The tank is stil moving forward folks. Hockey is a streaky sport. A fee wins in a row can just as easily be followed by a 10 game winless streak... Especially if you're consistently getting outshot and have by far the leagues worst corsi percentage. Worst case scenario is they are somewhere in the bottom 5 come the trade deadline then sink like a rock after Stewart, Stafford, Enroth and Gorges are launched.
Brawndo Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) That's not going to work. Trading Mitchell, Kaleta, Meszaros, and Benoit might actually *improve* the team by clearing room for Armia, Grigorenko, Pysyk, and McCabe (or Ruhwedel). And those 4 players definitely aren't why we're doing well right now (actually the opposite in the case of Meszaros and Benoit). Trading Stewart and Stafford for future assets would make us worse right now (and will probably happen) but is that enough to make us the worst team in the league when you have Columbus, Edmonton, and Philly all in free fall? I doubt it. And there's no way we're trading both Enroth and Neuvirth (which, if we did it right now, probably would assure us of a 30th place finish). We should trade one of them and sign the other to an extension (probably Neuvirth) and I actually think the return would be decent. So unfortunately I don't think the Sabres can realistically make trades to keep us in the bottom three (and probably not the bottom 5). Related: If you're the GM of the Oilers and you're trying to keep your job, how are you not on the phone with Buffalo every day until you have Enroth or Neuvirth? When Murray made those signings I don't think he expected Enroth/Neuvirth to play like the second coming of Hasek I wouldn't be to sure about not trading both. I think one will move well before the trade deadline and the other will move at the deadline especially if the remaining goalie continues to steal wins.. The question comes down to whether or not Murray feels resigning one of them to a contract extension is worth running the risk of losing out on McDavid or Eichel, especially in light of the fact that TPegs is completely enamored with McDavid as mentioned by PA. Plus there is a precedent for traded players to come back and resign with the Sabres. Yes he still runs the risk of not having an established goalie for a for the next season, but I guess it depends on how much Zero ###### Given type moves Murray wants to do. This is actually part of *my* point. Last year we had key guys to unload via firesale -- and they were just waiting for that firesale to happen. This year we don't have nearly the caliber of players to move. This is the only part of your response that pisses me off because I don't guarantee Edmonton's improvement *or* declare their total demise at any point above. I actually don't think I've ever "guaranteed" anything on this board. As for Edmonton's total demise, they're in free fall and it's likely to end how it usually does, but they could still salvage this season with some significant moves. I doubt they'll make big trades and get a fresh start, but it's still possible. I do think Edmonton's goaltending is atrocious this year from the few games I've seen. Let's hope. The Oilers as we all know need Center, D-Man, and Goalie help. What if the Sabres offered a package of Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth what kind of return could the Sabres expect? Or if Murray really wants to get crazy Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth and Ennis? Edited December 1, 2014 by BRAWNDO
inkman Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 When Murray made those signings I don't think he expected Enroth/Neuvirth to play like the second coming of Hasek I wouldn't be to sure about not trading both. I think one will move well before the trade deadline and the other will move at the deadline especially if the remaining goalie continues to steal wins.. The question comes down to whether or not Murray feels resigning one of them to a contract extension is worth running the risk of losing out on McDavid or Eichel, especially in light of the fact that TPegs is completely enamored with McDavid as mentioned by PA. Plus there is a precedent for traded players to come back and resign with the Sabres. Yes he still runs the risk of not having an established goalie for a for the next season, but I guess it depends on how much Zero ###### Given type moves Murray wants to do. The Oilers as we all know need Center, D-Man, and Goalie help. What if the Sabres offered a package of Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth what kind of return could the Sabres expect? Or if Murray really wants to get crazy Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth and Ennis? Better be Taylor Hall coming back
sicknfla Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 When Murray made those signings I don't think he expected Enroth/Neuvirth to play like the second coming of Hasek I wouldn't be to sure about not trading both. I think one will move well before the trade deadline and the other will move at the deadline especially if the remaining goalie continues to steal wins.. The question comes down to whether or not Murray feels resigning one of them to a contract extension is worth running the risk of losing out on McDavid or Eichel, especially in light of the fact that TPegs is completely enamored with McDavid as mentioned by PA. Plus there is a precedent for traded players to come back and resign with the Sabres. Yes he still runs the risk of not having an established goalie for a for the next season, but I guess it depends on how much Zero ###### Given type moves Murray wants to do. The Oilers as we all know need Center, D-Man, and Goalie help. What if the Sabres offered a package of Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth what kind of return could the Sabres expect? Or if Murray really wants to get crazy Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth and Ennis? Keep Ennis. Throw in Hodgson.
Hoss Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Re-signing Drew Stafford? This might actually work. Not that he's playing well but an extension means it's no longer a contract-year.
Robviously Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 When Murray made those signings I don't think he expected Enroth/Neuvirth to play like the second coming of Hasek I wouldn't be to sure about not trading both. I think one will move well before the trade deadline and the other will move at the deadline especially if the remaining goalie continues to steal wins.. The question comes down to whether or not Murray feels resigning one of them to a contract extension is worth running the risk of losing out on McDavid or Eichel, especially in light of the fact that TPegs is completely enamored with McDavid as mentioned by PA. Plus there is a precedent for traded players to come back and resign with the Sabres. Yes he still runs the risk of not having an established goalie for a for the next season, but I guess it depends on how much Zero ###### Given type moves Murray wants to do. Both Enroth and Neuvirth played really well last season after the Miller trade finally went down. It's not shocking that they're still playing well this year. They both have really high Save % but that doesn't nearly tell the story as they've been completely under siege in many games. I can't imagine they'd trade both of them and if they were doing that as part of the tank, they'd have to do it sooner rather than later. And how would they sell that to the fans? The Oilers as we all know need Center, D-Man, and Goalie help. What if the Sabres offered a package of Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth what kind of return could the Sabres expect? Or if Murray really wants to get crazy Myers, Enroth/Neuvirth and Ennis? Better be Taylor Hall coming back Keep Ennis. Throw in Hodgson. This is actually the type of move the Oilers should be thinking about. They need to make a huge move at some point to wake everyone up over there.
Hoss Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Better be Taylor Hall coming back For Myers and an unproven goaltender? Not even close to Taylor Hall. Maybe add Reinhart to that and it's closer.
shrader Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 What do you expect him to say? And he was probably right with our without the recent streak. Could things really get much worse than that long stretch where the team was averaging right around one goal a game?
SabresFuture Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Okay guys, we had a minor setback in the CHL, but each week gives you a chance to right the ship. Edmonton is in action tonight against Arizona while Columbus plays Florida. The next five for the Sabres: Tampa Bay, Tampa Bay, Florida, Los Angeles, and Calgary. All winnable games.
inkman Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 For Myers and an unproven goaltender? Not even close to Taylor Hall. Maybe add Reinhart to that and it's closer. And Ennis, why would you think I was referring to the lesser of the two deals?
Hoss Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 And Ennis, why would you think I was referring to the lesser of the two deals? Either way it doesn't get it done.
Brawndo Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Both Enroth and Neuvirth played really well last season after the Miller trade finally went down. It's not shocking that they're still playing well this year. They both have really high Save % but that doesn't nearly tell the story as they've been completely under siege in many games. I can't imagine they'd trade both of them and if they were doing that as part of the tank, they'd have to do it sooner rather than later. And how would they sell that to the fans? TM would have to have a presser where he states the present team will not win the cup and these moves are designed with vast improvement of talent of team for next year. Or if he only wants to move one of them, part of the package back from EDM could be their 2015 1st. And before any says NO MORE PICKS, look at the salary cap situation for a few teams next year. The cap is not expected to go up much next year and CHI has 15 players under contract for next season and is 4 million under the estimated cap. Brandon Saad is a RFA. Trade a pick for him prior to the draft. Also the LAK are close with Toffoli and Pearson as RFAs this year and Kopitar a UFA the year after. They are going to have to make some moves as well. This trade would give the Sabres two potential top ten picks and the currency to make moves to improve the team dramatically for 2015-16.
inkman Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Either way it doesn't get it done. Regardless, for a top 6 forward, a top 4 dman and a starting goalie, I want nothing short of Hall. Ennis is as good as any other forward they have.
sicknfla Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 (edited) Regardless, for a top 6 forward, a top 4 dman and a starting goalie, I want nothing short of Hall. Ennis is as good as any other forward they have. Agree with this. I do not want to see Ennis moved. Edited December 1, 2014 by sicknfla
Hoss Posted December 1, 2014 Report Posted December 1, 2014 Regardless, for a top 6 forward, a top 4 dman and a starting goalie, I want nothing short of Hall. Ennis is as good as any other forward they have. RNH > Ennis. "starting goalie" still used a bit loosely with these guys. I don't think Edmonton will mess around with these guys who have straddled the line between backup and starter anymore.
Brawndo Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 CBJ breaks their winning ways against Florida with a 2-1 loss
WildCard Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Looks like Edmonton is going to continue their ways though
Brawndo Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Not sure where to put this, but a French Canadian Radio Station was discussing this morning a rumor that Tim Murray is preparing to resign as the Sabres GM. I believe they are feeding off what Murray said shortly after his uncle was diagnosed with cancer, that if this has come out sooner he might not have taken the job with the Sabres FWIW The main host did not believe it, the co host said there might be some merit to it. Edited December 2, 2014 by BRAWNDO
dudacek Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Terry's upset about the recent success on the ice and putting pressure on Tim to get the tank rolling again. (Just wanted to be first in :devil: )
Brawndo Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Terry's upset about the recent success on the ice and putting pressure on Tim to get the tank rolling again. (Just wanted to be first in :devil: ) That thought did cross my mind as well Edited December 2, 2014 by BRAWNDO
Hoss Posted December 2, 2014 Report Posted December 2, 2014 Not sure where to put this, but a French Canadian Radio Station was discussing this morning a rumor that Tim Murray is preparing to resign as the Sabres GM. I believe they are feeding off what Murray said shortly after his uncle was diagnosed with cancer, that if this has come out sooner he might not have taken the job with the Sabres FWIW The main host did not believe it, the co host said there might be some merit to it. This would be devastating.
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