Robviously Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Only if you're looking at this season as the average of 246 periods of hockey (plus overtimes and SO's). But it's not. It's 82 individual outcomes. And out of the 47 points the Sabres currently have, how many are because we had a goaltender stand on his head and save the day -- earning us a point or even 2 points. Lindback just did it against Boston. How many points do Arizona and Edmonton have from goalies standing on their head? Moreover, even if the numbers for Enroth, Neuvirth, and Lindback aren't that good, their stats aren't telling the whole story by any stretch. Our goaltenders are under siege in almost every game. Having a GAA in the ~3.00 range on this team is great goaltending. Decided to answer my own question. See here for the Sabres season so far: http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/schedule/_/name/buf/buffalo-sabres We have 20 wins right now. Out of those 20 wins, ESPN has *13* where our "top performer" was a goaltender with a save percentage of 0.93 or higher. And that's just the wins -- it doesn't include any loser points we earned or any losses that we kept close only because of our goaltending. Had the Sabres had mediocre goaltending performances in just 3 of those 13 games, resulting in regulation losses, we'd basically have this thing wrapped up with 10 games to go. But, unfortunately for the Tank, we've seen A LOT of great goaltending performances this season. Also, you can't say: a. The Sabres have a historically bad Corsi this season b. The race to 30th place will be close c. The Sabres haven't had great goaltending All three of those statements can't be true at once. Edited March 22, 2015 by Robviously
beerme1 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Now that we're in the final stretch, I'm starting to follow the CHL matchups nightly. I can see how so many of you went batshit insane earlier on in this season. I am just now entering batshit insane territory. I have been in pissed off mode for some time only to settle down and accept that the best outcome for the team really is last place and now that seems to be in serious doubt and it is resulting in the batshit. Funny how these games now have everyone's attention huh.
sabresith Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 OEL 》 Risto for now. Your right the gap is closing.
WildCard Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Did not know that "tanking" might be the single-most-used word to describe this season. Sure, I understood the importance of cornerstone prospects Connor McDavid and Jack Eichel, who will almost certainly go 1-2 in June's draft, but we did not quite get the depths to which teams would fall as the race to the bottom has been one of the top storylines of the season. Hard to imagine it won't be Buffalo securing 30th, but the Edmonton Oilers' ongoing misery and the shockingly poor play of the Arizona Coyotes have made this a three-team race. No doubt this is a race the league will be more than happy to put in its rearview mirror. http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/12522511/nhl-looking-back-bad-predictions-2014-15-nhl-season
Weave Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Anyway, I'm sure those calls you envision have happened already. What a poop fest for the league this tank fest has turned into. The NHL should bar both the Sabres and Yotes from drafting either of the big 2. I really, really hope that the new draft rules for next year go a long way towards eliminating the incentive to purposely lose. No NHL fan should have to tolerate watching the Sabres or Coyotes play in their arena.
Eleven Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 I really, really hope that the new draft rules for next year go a long way towards eliminating the incentive to purposely lose. No NHL fan should have to tolerate watching the Sabres or Coyotes play in their arena. And one of those teams (Sabres) actually tried to improve during the offseason.
Hoss Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 And one of those teams (Sabres) actually tried to improve during the offseason. To be "fair" the Oilers added Fayne, Nikitin, Pouliot, Purcell and Aulie.
Weave Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 And one of those teams (Sabres) actually tried to improve during the offseason. I don't believe that anymore.
Eleven Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) I don't believe that anymore. What did you want them to do, go out and sign the captain of the Montreal Canadiens or something? To be "fair" the Oilers added Fayne, Nikitin, Pouliot, Purcell and Aulie. They're not the Sabres or Coyotes. Edited March 22, 2015 by Eleven
Weave Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 What did you want them to do, go out and sign the captain of the Montreal Canadiens or something? They're not the Sabres or Coyotes. yeah, that worked out well for Montreal, didn't it?
LastPommerFan Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Through the first half of the season, the team WAS better than last year!
Hoss Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 What did you want them to do, go out and sign the captain of the Montreal Canadiens or something? They're not the Sabres or Coyotes. I'm programmed to look at it as a three team race, so I thought about them.
TrueBlueGED Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Decided to answer my own question. See here for the Sabres season so far: http://espn.go.com/nhl/team/schedule/_/name/buf/buffalo-sabres We have 20 wins right now. Out of those 20 wins, ESPN has *13* where our "top performer" was a goaltender with a save percentage of 0.93 or higher. And that's just the wins -- it doesn't include any loser points we earned or any losses that we kept close only because of our goaltending. Had the Sabres had mediocre goaltending performances in just 3 of those 13 games, resulting in regulation losses, we'd basically have this thing wrapped up with 10 games to go. But, unfortunately for the Tank, we've seen A LOT of great goaltending performances this season. Also, you can't say: a. The Sabres have a historically bad Corsi this season b. The race to 30th place will be close c. The Sabres haven't had great goaltending All three of those statements can't be true at once. Those three things can't be said in conjunction if and only if luck doesn't matter. But we know it does...a lot. In the aggregate each of those statements is true, just as you're happy to point out, they don't always line up on a game to game basis to have us go winless. It's why I'm not sitting here saying there's a 100% chance we finish 30th. The aggregates would also not take full account of how bad Arizona is now relative to earlier in the year when they had Hanzal, Vermette, Boedker and Yandle. But the aggregates still have value. You're not going to gave a bunch of great goaltending performances contribute to win without also having some dreadful performances contribute to losses if the cumulative save percentage is bottom ten (currently 23rd) in the league. Since we know that save percentage is highly volatile game to game, and one game is essentially uncorrelated with the next, we should put a lot of weight on the overall numbers when trying to predict what will happen next. Given the Sabres team save percentage this year and Lindback's career versus the short run he's on, it's a much better bet he falls off than he continues. It may not happen, the luck can continue for another handful of games, but it's definitively the less likely outcome. If you want to hang your hat on that go right ahead, but I'm putting (and literally put) my money on the favorites. To use your Patriots analogy...sure, Brady may have the ball with time left, but we have the Giants defensive line and there's only 40 seconds left on the clock. To be "fair" the Oilers added Fayne, Nikitin, Pouliot, Purcell and Aulie. I think the Oilers are better than last year...except for the minor detail that they decided to roll with Ben Scrivens as their starter :lol: Edited March 22, 2015 by TrueBluePhD
kas23 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 The NHL should bar both the Sabres and Yotes from drafting either of the big 2. I just find it very bizarre you would say this. As a self-described fan, can you please articulate exactly why the Sabres should be barred from acquiring the talent at the top of this year's draft? I think it's abundantly clear the Sabres are giving their best effort on a nightly basis, so why exactly would you want your supposed favorite NHL team punished? If it's about the actions of GMTM, it's called a rebuild. GM's within every sport do it every year. And if you still fault him, remind yourself that he's not responsible for his players' effort nor Nolan's desire to win.
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 I just find it very bizarre you would say this. As a self-described fan, can you please articulate exactly why the Sabres should be barred from acquiring the talent at the top of this year's draft? I think it's abundantly clear the Sabres are giving their best effort on a nightly basis, so why exactly would you want your supposed favorite NHL team punished? If it's about the actions of GMTM, it's called a rebuild. GM's within every sport do it every year. And if you still fault him, remind yourself that he's not responsible for his players' effort nor Nolan's desire to win. Cheating is wrong. It is becoming quite apparent that the Sabres and Coyotes are both (I can't bring myself to say it, as if it were true I would stop being a fan after 40+ years immediately) not putting in a full effort. Perhaps the players and coaches have been trying their best, but I cannot abide an owner and management that would ice a crappy team on purpose, in order to stink so badly that they would draft one of the big 2. It is just about unforgivable. The f'n tank is cheating in my mind. And it should not be rewarded. Simple enough.
Hoss Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Cheating is wrong. The f'n tank is cheating in my mind. And it should not be rewarded. Simple enough.
Weave Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Why the eye roll? He hasn't pushed it on you. He was asked, so he answered. It is a legit point of view.
kas23 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Cheating is wrong. It is becoming quite apparent that the Sabres and Coyotes are both (I can't bring myself to say it, as if it were true I would stop being a fan after 40+ years immediately) not putting in a full effort. Perhaps the players and coaches have been trying their best, but I cannot abide an owner and management that would ice a crappy team on purpose, in order to stink so badly that they would draft one of the big 2. It is just about unforgivable. The f'n tank is cheating in my mind. And it should not be rewarded. Simple enough. Ok. No eye-roll here. I understand what you are saying and I agree cheating shouldn't be rewarded. But what exactly are the Sabres doing that constitutes cheating? To me they seem to be putting forth a respectable effort given their talent level. Our goalies aren't shooting on their own net (the video of Smith I posted in the thread). I respectfully disagree with the anti-tankers, but you seem to be taking it to an altogether new level. So, why are you wishing ill will on a team you supposedly are a fan of? Edited March 22, 2015 by kas23
bunomatic Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Cheating is wrong. It is becoming quite apparent that the Sabres and Coyotes are both (I can't bring myself to say it, as if it were true I would stop being a fan after 40+ years immediately) not putting in a full effort. Perhaps the players and coaches have been trying their best, but I cannot abide an owner and management that would ice a crappy team on purpose, in order to stink so badly that they would draft one of the big 2. It is just about unforgivable. The f'n tank is cheating in my mind. And it should not be rewarded. Simple enough. It is the way of things grasshopper. Coaches, players, G.M.s have always pushed the boundaries of the rules to get an advantage since sport was invented. The N.H.L. is no different. This was a turnover of epic proportions. We were bound to sukc. The league has changed the rules to hinder teams from tanking to get a generational talent and certain G.M.s have pushed the boundaries further. Edited March 22, 2015 by bunomatic
Claude_Verret Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 We've come to the tank = cheating? Nonsense.
Hoss Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Why the eye roll? He hasn't pushed it on you. He was asked, so he answered. It is a legit point of view. The "tanking is cheating" point of view has been done before. And it seemed to die off. My eye roll was that it's apparently not dead. It's not a legitimate view in my rolling eyes.
Weave Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) We've come to the tank = cheating? Nonsense. For most of the anti-tankers it was always about intentionally building a team with the intent of finishing last being an unsavory way of doing business. Cheating? Semantics. It is a strong word. The "tanking is cheating" point of view has been done before. And it seemed to die off. My eye roll was that it's apparently not dead. It's not a legitimate view in my rolling eyes. It was never dead. D4rk still waved the sword. NS was always upfront, if not agressive in stating it. I beleive it. Why is it not legit? Does it not fly in the face of the spirit of competition? Edited March 22, 2015 by weave
WildCard Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 We either -Sold our soul to the Devil or -We are the lone soldier manning a last stand effort for his battalion to live on and see better days. A case can be made for either, and has been ad nauseam. To me, personally, the foregoing of immediate happiness for a better end result is noble, albeit nobility in a deranged form.
kas23 Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 The "tanking is cheating" point of view has been done before. And it seemed to die off. My eye roll was that it's apparently not dead. It's not a legitimate view in my rolling eyes. Ok. I somewhat agree with the eye roll, but I was just giving NS respect in order to get a serious response because I honestly can't fathom why someone calling themselves a "fan" would wish ill will towards a team they supposedly love. It doesn't matter if you are pro-tanker or anti-tanker, we all want the Sabres to succeed - we just differ in how this should occur. Wishing the Sabres were stripped of their draft pick is a complete departure from this though.
Weave Posted March 22, 2015 Report Posted March 22, 2015 Ok. I somewhat agree with the eye roll, but I was just giving NS respect in order to get a serious response because I honestly can't fathom why someone calling themselves a "fan" would wish ill will towards a team they supposedly love. It doesn't matter if you are pro-tanker or anti-tanker, we all want the Sabres to succeed - we just differ in how this should occur. Wishing the Sabres were stripped of their draft pick is a complete departure from this though. It is not unlike letting a child pay the price for a wrong doing but loving them and welcoming them back afterward.
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