sicknfla Posted February 9, 2015 Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Training camp started approx 5 months ago. Went by pretty quick - albeit pretty uneventful. 5 more months and we will have had a trade deadline, lottery, a draft, and the first week of FA. Going to probably be the biggest 5 months in team history. Let's do this Tim Murray!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2015 Can we stop paying or betting on upside and just get some ppl who are consistently good? Yes yes and yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Been talked about on this board ad nauseum, but I don't think the Chara analogy is at all warranted. Chara was a little know player from rural Slovakia with very little high-end training as a youngster. He was raw as hell and was drafted as a long-shot project in the third round. He only played one year of junior hockey, which was AFTER he was drafted. Guy really had to learn how to play the North American game, which he did in the years after being drafted. Myers is quite the opposite. He wasn't an unknown guy from a non-hockey area. He's had the proper training as a junior player in Canada and was a first round pick. Very different. Now Myers has played almost 6 full seasons and almost 400 NHL games, yet people still talk about "when he develops." He has developed. He is a veteran. And, even if you buy the "he is Chara because they are both tall" cover story, Chara played 231 games with the Isles. In games played Myers right now = Chara during his second season in Ottawa, which is when Zedeno was already starting to dominate the league. The guy is just starting to get his man strength....I don't think he's played his best hockey yet. Finished product? I think not yet. That's why he should return a very good price should GMTee'eM move him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The only people that want to trade Myers are Sabres fans. There isn't a single hockey guy out there that thinks that is a good idea and good for the Sabres. He's already really good and still developing. And if I hear one more person say hockey IQ so that they can sound smart I'm going to scream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 My only question when you trade Myers is who is going to fill out the Sabres top 4 defense spots? I am not saying we can't trade him just curious how it shakes out. It doesn't shake out well for a while. Best case scenario: Risto becomes a #1, Nikita becomes a 2/3, Gorges plays at a #4 level for a couple more years. Sabres sign a good #2 in the off season. That D corp probably hits its stride in 2017 at best? It's much more stable with Myers in the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 It doesn't shake out well for a while. Best case scenario: Risto becomes a #1, Nikita becomes a 2/3, Gorges plays at a #4 level for a couple more years. Sabres sign a good #2 in the off season. That D corp probably hits its stride in 2017 at best? It's much more stable with Myers in the mix. This is why I don't expect Myers to be traded until at least next year's deadline, if not the postseason of 2016. Murray has no reason to move him right now and if he thinks Myers gets better then he can take whatever offers he's getting right now and use them as leverage later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hockey iq Couldn't resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Hockey iq Couldn't resist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Can we stop paying or betting on upside and just get some ppl who are consistently good? Sure I usually hate speculating but I believe with you it might be interesting. Guys like Kane are not made available and when they are there is a price to pay. I think you way underestimate the value of him. However, there's no way in hell I'm giving up Myers + + whatever that crap was this morning. And you are on record as saying no to Ennis + + which I believe I could see my way to doing. You know you cant get something for nothing and it seems like we are in a position to strike on that deal. So ok Ennis and a 1st. Would you? I would in a heartbeat! And Peg may come to find out that deal is the best they can do in season. So what else do you propose? I guess I would say propose form some of the rumors that are out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Sure I usually hate speculating but I believe with you it might be interesting. Guys like Kane are not made available and when they are there is a price to pay. I think you way underestimate the value of him. However, there's no way in hell I'm giving up Myers + + whatever that crap was this morning. And you are on record as saying no to Ennis + + which I believe I could see my way to doing. You know you cant get something for nothing and it seems like we are in a position to strike on that deal. So ok Ennis and a 1st. Would you? I would in a heartbeat! And Peg may come to find out that deal is the best they can do in season. So what else do you propose? I guess I would say propose form some of the rumors that are out there. If Winnipeg wants a 1st round pick + a good prospect + a roster 2nd/3rd line winger to replace Kane this year (as rumored)... It could be something like the St. Louis or NYI 1st + Armia + Stewart/Stafford or Foligno. The Jets will be in a dogfight to make the playoffs with a bunch of teams that have games at hand (Kings, Wild, etc.). They may be a motivated seller. Per NHL radio, the Jets like to target big and fast players who aren't necessarily uber-skilled. Foligno seems to fit that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The only people that want to trade Myers are Sabres fans. There isn't a single hockey guy out there that thinks that is a good idea and good for the Sabres. He's already really good and still developing. And if I hear one more person say hockey IQ so that they can sound smart I'm going to scream. This is dead on. The only people that want to trade Myers are Sabres fans. There isn't a single hockey guy out there that thinks that is a good idea and good for the Sabres. He's already really good and still developing. And if I hear one more person say hockey IQ so that they can sound smart I'm going to scream. This, also, is dead on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Been talked about on this board ad nauseum, but I don't think the Chara analogy is at all warranted. Chara was a little know player from rural Slovakia with very little high-end training as a youngster. He was raw as hell and was drafted as a long-shot project in the third round. He only played one year of junior hockey, which was AFTER he was drafted. Guy really had to learn how to play the North American game, which he did in the years after being drafted. Myers is quite the opposite. He wasn't an unknown guy from a non-hockey area. He's had the proper training as a junior player in Canada and was a first round pick. Very different. Now Myers has played almost 6 full seasons and almost 400 NHL games, yet people still talk about "when he develops." He has developed. He is a veteran. And, even if you buy the "he is Chara because they are both tall" cover story, Chara played 231 games with the Isles. In games played Myers right now = Chara during his second season in Ottawa, which is when Zedeno was already starting to dominate the league. Good post. I've been wondering if the comparisons were anything beyond size. So if Chara simply had to adapt to NA style of play and professional competition, Myers development taking this long is worrying Edited February 10, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K8prisoner Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Good post. I've been wondering if the comparisons were anything beyond size. So if Chara simply had to adapt to NA style of play and professional competition, Myers lack of development still is worrying Trying to develop on a stunted demoralized team which ...could be suggested since the all heart miller bruins moment that started this mess.. And then getting used to being around a sloppy losing team.. I wonder what Cody Frankenleino would do on a line with ennis and a guy like Tavares .. And a winning record. (Not that he deserves it) I'm not sure if heart or lack of concentration can cured but .. Myers seems quite fixable if placed next to a truly great #1 d forced to concentrate on winning or letting a lockeroom down.. This is dead on. This, also, is dead on. If he does it may be insurance against a 28 th finish admitting to another year without a top line by getting Larkin or tatertot to help Samson and to wait on development with pick 3 d .. Hope not . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I feel the Jets GM is overvaluing Kane ever so slightly. He seems to be expecting about 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in return for him. The offer being jostled around is Stafford/Stewart, Armia/Grigs, and the NYI/StL 1st for Evander Kane Stafford and Stewart are very similar in value varying from a low 1st (oddities do happen ex: Gaustad) to at minimum a 3rd & 5th rounder. Armia and Grigs are both still worth 1st round picks due to their age and potential, along with their advancement in the prospect hierarchy. The two other 1sts are obviously worth a 1st a piece however both have the possibility of being as high as the 15th pick even with both of them making the playoffs. In this heavily skilled draft, a 15th to 20th overall would include what last year was likely in the 5th-10th area. We got Zadorov around there. v.s. Kane is a very good player with the potential to be great, even elite in his style of play however his stats barely outdo Tyler Ennis whose been on easily as bad or worse teams. Kane on average misses 1 month of each season Has 1 30 goal season and was on pace for 30 in the lockout year aside from that hasn't hit 20 since This doesn't even mention his off ice baggage he carries with him At best I feel he's worth about 1 1st round and 2 2nd rounders thus my highest offer would be Stafford/Stewart, Armia/Grigs, and the NYI 2nd if possible or else the BUF 2nd for Evander Kane A 1-3 round pick in conversion, a 1st, and 2nd. If the going rate for Stew or Staff is a 2nd, you give them BUF's 2nd because its practically locked in around 31 to 33 already. If you can trade either for a 1st, give them the NYI 2nd. Thus in essence you are swapping present and future 1st/2nd line wingers Stafford/Armia for example for the Jets present and future winger in Kane while adding a 2nd in good faith in order to hedge Armia's chances of doing well along with Stafford's decision to resign or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Good post. I've been wondering if the comparisons were anything beyond size. So if Chara simply had to adapt to NA style of play and professional competition, Myers lack of development still is worrying http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=41958 I've always thought (and posted here) that I think Myers is a good own-zone defender due to his reach and skating ability. And, he is a very good penalty killer. What I take offense with is the assertion that he is a "two-way" or "puck moving" defender. He just isn't that great with the puck on his stick, especially relative to the other 24+ minute per game d-men around the league. And, he is brutal on the power play... Risto and Zadorov have more power play points than Myers in far fewer PP minutes. I think the days of the "stay at home" d-men are fleeting. In today's game the better teams are full of two-way defensemen who are offensively skilled. That's where I think Buffalo needs to be. That's why I'd trade Myers for a guy like Cam Fowler. We'd give up a little defense in favor of more offense and I think it'd be a net gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=41958 I've always thought (and posted here) that I think Myers is a good own-zone defender due to his reach and skating ability. And, he is a very good penalty killer. What I take offense with is the assertion that he is a "two-way" or "puck moving" defender. He just isn't that great with the puck on his stick, especially relative to the other 24+ minute per game d-men around the league. And, he is brutal on the power play... Risto and Zadorov have more power play points than Myers in far fewer PP minutes. I think the days of the "stay at home" d-men are fleeting. In today's game the better teams are full of two-way defensemen who are offensively skilled. That's where I think Buffalo needs to be. That's why I'd trade Myers for a guy like Cam Fowler. We'd give up a little defense in favor of more offense and I think it'd be a net gain. Do you think some of his shortcomings as a "puck mover" could be because the forwards he has to work with are so woefully deficient? I would love to see what he could do with a true 1st line that knows what to do on a power play. Edited February 10, 2015 by SwampD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you think some of his shortcomings as a "puck mover" could be because the forwards he has to work with are so woefully deficient? I would love to see what he could do with a true 1st line that knows what to do on a power play. And thanks to the tank, in a couple of years, you're going to get to see just that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I feel the Jets GM is overvaluing Kane ever so slightly. He seems to be expecting about 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder in return for him. The offer being jostled around is Stafford/Stewart, Armia/Grigs, and the NYI/StL 1st for Evander Kane Stafford and Stewart are very similar in value varying from a low 1st (oddities do happen ex: Gaustad) to at minimum a 3rd & 5th rounder. Armia and Grigs are both still worth 1st round picks due to their age and potential, along with their advancement in the prospect hierarchy. The two other 1sts are obviously worth a 1st a piece however both have the possibility of being as high as the 15th pick even with both of them making the playoffs. In this heavily skilled draft, a 15th to 20th overall would include what last year was likely in the 5th-10th area. We got Zadorov around there. v.s. Kane is a very good player with the potential to be great, even elite in his style of play however his stats barely outdo Tyler Ennis whose been on easily as bad or worse teams. Kane on average misses 1 month of each season Has 1 30 goal season and was on pace for 30 in the lockout year aside from that hasn't hit 20 since This doesn't even mention his off ice baggage he carries with him At best I feel he's worth about 1 1st round and 2 2nd rounders thus my highest offer would be Stafford/Stewart, Armia/Grigs, and the NYI 2nd if possible or else the BUF 2nd for Evander Kane A 1-3 round pick in conversion, a 1st, and 2nd. If the going rate for Stew or Staff is a 2nd, you give them BUF's 2nd because its practically locked in around 31 to 33 already. If you can trade either for a 1st, give them the NYI 2nd. Thus in essence you are swapping present and future 1st/2nd line wingers Stafford/Armia for example for the Jets present and future winger in Kane while adding a 2nd in good faith in order to hedge Armia's chances of doing well along with Stafford's decision to resign or not. Didn't read the whole post but an UFA, a decent prospect and a first is absolutely not asking too much for Kane. But we all know you like to try and rob teams with your trade offers. :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 This is definitely the equivalent to the dog days of summer right now. March 2 can't get here fast enough. I don't think I can handle much more Tyler Myers and Evander Kane mumbo jumbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 And thanks to the tank, in a couple of years, you're going to get to see just that! I better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 I better. this isn't about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The only way I trade Myers is if someone is overpaying for him. I want a sure-fire prospect and a young roster player and maybe something else. Their is no need to move Myers otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 The only way I trade Myers is if someone is overpaying for him. I want a sure-fire prospect and a young roster player and maybe something else. Their is no need to move Myers otherwise. So Cam Fowler and one of the many legit prospects the Ducks have? I would still absolutely love that deal if it happened. Fowler and any of Rakell, Smith-Pelley, Ritchie, Gibson... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=41958 I've always thought (and posted here) that I think Myers is a good own-zone defender due to his reach and skating ability. And, he is a very good penalty killer. What I take offense with is the assertion that he is a "two-way" or "puck moving" defender. He just isn't that great with the puck on his stick, especially relative to the other 24+ minute per game d-men around the league. And, he is brutal on the power play... Risto and Zadorov have more power play points than Myers in far fewer PP minutes. I think the days of the "stay at home" d-men are fleeting. In today's game the better teams are full of two-way defensemen who are offensively skilled. That's where I think Buffalo needs to be. That's why I'd trade Myers for a guy like Cam Fowler. We'd give up a little defense in favor of more offense and I think it'd be a net gain. A puck mover is more than a guy who works the offensive blueline. Right now, I think Myers is very good at retrieving the puck in his zone and skating it out of danger. He also makes a solid first pass; the turnovers that plagued him so much two or three years ago still happen, but not nearly as much as they used to, and not that often if you consider how frequently he has the puck in comparison to the other blue liners on this team. He doesn't do it nearly as often as he used to, but he can lead a rush and join a rush better than 2/3rds of the dmen in this league. Where he falls down offensively is he hasn't shown great ability to finish in those situations, or make a nice pass to someone who can. And he is a mediocre point man. Stay-at-home guys are like Weber and Gorges and Regehr. I think Myers offers so much more than guys like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted February 10, 2015 Report Share Posted February 10, 2015 Do you think some of his shortcomings as a "puck mover" could be because the forwards he has to work with are so woefully deficient? I would love to see what he could do with a true 1st line that knows what to do on a power play. I think he has an inaccurate shot and a questionable ability to move the puck to the right guy in a timely manner (reliability is an issue). The 5-on-3 yesterday was a good example of that. On that note, our power play desperately needs a point guy who knows what he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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