Terry and Kim Pegula, owners of the Sabres AND the Bills

[darksabre]

What's the point? This was guaranteed to happen anyway. The jab about the complaint thread was funny, especially since all Pegula related topics are guaranteed to turn into his own forum for complaining. Thursdays are 90% of the time a lighthearted moment that spurs some random conversation, but this one is an all out vendetta.

 

And it's not even a good vendetta. At least Yuri dislikes Pegula for environmental reasons. I'm completely on board with that discussion.

[Hank]

 

 

What's the point? This was guaranteed to happen anyway. The jab about the complaint thread was funny, especially since all Pegula related topics are guaranteed to turn into his own forum for complaining. Thursdays are 90% of the time a lighthearted moment that spurs some random conversation, but this one is an all out vendetta.

 

Right or wrong, it sure seems that way to me too.

[spndnchz]

Page 208. snip snip

 

Each such Recipient Club shall be required to submit to the League and Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee a forward-looking three-year business plan to establish a framework for improving its financial performance, including but not limited to the steps the Club intends to take in order to achieve an improved and acceptable level of business performance.

 

A Club's continuing eligibility to receive Distributions may be conditioned on successfully executing on such plan.

[Taro T]

 

 

I said I believe Ted. The difference between you and me is that I'm not arrogant enough to think I would understand the CBA.

What is so difficult about reading and understanding a contract?

 

Maybe you should give it a shot; you might surprise yourself.

[Claude_Verret]

Claude, don't do that again.

What did he do? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

I told PA to rejoice since it appears as though TP's Sabres meddling focus has become diluted now with the Bills ownership.

 

I'm not sure that rises to trolling, but ok. I didn't mean to open up this can of worms again, trust me.

[TrueBlueGED]

I told PA to rejoice since it appears as though TP's Sabres meddling focus has become diluted now with the Bills ownership.

 

I'm not sure that rises to trolling, but ok. I didn't mean to open up this can of worms again, trust me.

 

Don't feel bad, this can of worms was opened, and will continue to be opened, so long as "Terry" and/or "Pegula" is in a thread title or any post within an unrelated thread.

[Eleven]

I told PA to rejoice since it appears as though TP's Sabres meddling focus has become diluted now with the Bills ownership.

 

I'm not sure that rises to trolling, but ok. I didn't mean to open up this can of worms again, trust me.

 

I know. I was posting in jest.

 

It's a lot of energy to spend on a topic about a team one isn't a fan of, isn't it?

[LTS]

Just to throw it out there... Hitler.

Stalin was much worse :unsure:

 

Would you say they are generational or clutch players?

[X. Benedict]

There is an argument. Unless X. knows more than Ted Black, there is no hard and fast mandate that the Sabres increase revenues to qualify for revenue sharing.

 

“It is important. We’re the smallest U.S.-based market in the NHL. Revenue sharing exists for a market just like Buffalo. … The obligation to grow as a league as a whole still exists. It’s not a written obligation but that’s what we’re trying to do – grow league revenues,” (Black) said.

 

I guess I could go read the CBA, but that ain't happening. Until then, I'm not taking any message board poster's word for it. I have Black's words on several occasions. I believe if the Sabres could pin the ticket price increases on some NHL edict, they would have already done so.

 

There is a difference between having a plan ......which is required, and actually increasing revenues, which is based on predicted consumer reactions.

 

The Sabres ARE obligated to have a plan to raise revenues. They have to have one. They can't get out of it. They need a plan.

 

Should that plan FAIL, they are not in breech of the CBA. (Because the consumers didn't cooperate).

 

Ergo: If they raise ticket prices according to the plan, which they have an obligation to submit and follow, but that plan subsequently fails to increase revenue, because people don't buy the tickets, then the club is not in breech of its obligations.

 

 

Get it?

 

Plan = submit business blueprint to increase revenues

 

Revenue = Money from the consumers and ticket buyers after that plan is implemented

 

They ARE NOT the same thing. And Buffalo can not opt out of having a plan.

 

Can we bury this now?

 

Or you could spend an hour reading the CBA.

 

 

E

 

O _ t _ s e

Edited September 10, 2014 by X. Benedict

[IKnowPhysics]

ITT: a massive ###### waste of time trying to teach or reason with someone who will conveniently forget whenever they want to form a contrarian opinion.

[SwampD]

ITT: a massive ###### waste of time trying to teach or reason with someone who will conveniently forget whenever they want to form a contrarian opinion.

I was wondering why so many try. It's almost like,… like they are trying to convince themselves that he is wrong.

 

…or something.

[pi2000]

Next logical step for Pegula is to launch a regional sports network, ala Empire Sports back in the 90's. They could broadcast Sabres games, local college sports, Jr Sabres, High School, Bills recap shows, etc.... I want my Pegula TV!

[dudacek]

 

I was wondering why so many try. It's almost like,… like they are trying to convince themselves that he is wrong.

 

…or something.

 

It's got to be for entertainment, on both sides.

I sometimes wonder if PA spends more time shaking his head thinking how blind his many foils are, or chuckling while softly saying "Got 'em again."

[IKnowPhysics]

I want my Pegula TV!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4SDhrTPOiI

[Taro T]

Next logical step for Pegula is to launch a regional sports network, ala Empire Sports back in the 90's. They could broadcast Sabres games, local college sports, Jr Sabres, High School, Bills recap shows, etc.... I want my Pegula TV!

If he does, it is doubtful that it would look much like the old Empire for several years, if ever. It would likely be a Fox Sports Buffalo affliate and run a lot of national programming.

 

Empire was a special situation in getting set up because Adelphia already had much of the infrastructure in place when it started and many of the expenses were either already sunk or could be shared jointly with other departments. It's programming improved Adelphia's offerings to their customers and could also be sold to competitors. A new channel would be starting from scratch and to have the local coverage of the old would be extremely non-profitable for a long time.

 

I still despise to this day the decision to liquidate Empire & WNSA rather than sell them because EVENTUALLY (IF Adelphia were to maintain a presence in WNY after emerging from bancruptcy, which in hindsight was never going to happen) it would become a negative NPV proposition when discounted cashflows more than 5 years out were included. That completely goes against the principle of trying to make the creditors as whole as possible, which was supposed to be the primary objective.

 

Because all the costs of starting a channel & station were already sunk entering bankruptcy, they could have been profitable and there was at least 1 legit offer. (Can't recall ottomh if there were multiple legit offers. Sorry.)

[darksabre]

 

I was wondering why so many try. It's almost like,… like they are trying to convince themselves that he is wrong.

 

…or something.

 

It's because it's the same shtick that cable news networks use and misinformation can be mighty powerful. Everyone should have a problem with it.

[bunomatic]

All I can say is I'm happy for the good people of Buffalo and as a sport fan of a Buffalo team I couldn't be happier. Whats there to complain about ? I'm not a Bills fan but to each his own. Enjoy Buffalo. Things could be a lot worse.

[MattPie]

I think it's in Article 49 of the CBA if I remember correctly.

Page 208. snip snip Each such Recipient Club shall be required to submit to the League and Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee a forward-looking three-year business plan to establish a framework for improving its financial performance, including but not limited to the steps the Club intends to take in order to achieve an improved and acceptable level of business performance. A Club's continuing eligibility to receive Distributions may be conditioned on successfully executing on such plan.

 

Nice try, I don't believe it.

[Stoner]

Nice try, I don't believe it.

Me either. It seems like a far cry from a mandate to raise ticket prices.

[Hoss]

Hey PA, is there any chance you could teach me how to make one of those tinfoil caps? Hearing a lot about crop circles in the Ralph Wilson Stadium turf lately.

[Stoner]

It's because it's the same shtick that cable news networks use and misinformation can be mighty powerful. Everyone should have a problem with it.

 

What misinformation? Didn't you read the trial thread? Most of what I used against Terry was his own words. He might be the last person to deny he overreached. He might even admit it when (if) he does some interviews after officially becoming owner of the Bills. What he learned/mistakes he made as Sabres owner and how he'll apply those lessons to the Bills...

 

Now, out of respect for the topic, I'll give it a rest. It's dancing on the razor's edge of being off topic. Yes, everything he did as owner of the Sabres could apply to how he'll own the Bills. Still...

 

I'm still interested to see how the Toronto decision flushes out. And how he approaches the football staff that is here. His history argues for patience and support for the GM, scouts, coaches. The franchise's recent history argues for a scorched earth policy. Of course the Bills will be 6-0 by then.

[shrader]

 

If he does, it is doubtful that it would look much like the old Empire for several years, if ever. It would likely be a Fox Sports Buffalo affliate and run a lot of national programming.

 

Empire was a special situation in getting set up because Adelphia already had much of the infrastructure in place when it started and many of the expenses were either already sunk or could be shared jointly with other departments. It's programming improved Adelphia's offerings to their customers and could also be sold to competitors. A new channel would be starting from scratch and to have the local coverage of the old would be extremely non-profitable for a long time.

 

I still despise to this day the decision to liquidate Empire & WNSA rather than sell them because EVENTUALLY (IF Adelphia were to maintain a presence in WNY after emerging from bancruptcy, which in hindsight was never going to happen) it would become a negative NPV proposition when discounted cashflows more than 5 years out were included. That completely goes against the principle of trying to make the creditors as whole as possible, which was supposed to be the primary objective.

 

Because all the costs of starting a channel & station were already sunk entering bankruptcy, they could have been profitable and there was at least 1 legit offer. (Can't recall ottomh if there were multiple legit offers. Sorry.)

 

What about an MSG west where they do use a lot of the mothership's programming but sprinkle in more buffalo based stuff? I've been gone for ages so I have no idea if that station has much of an audience or not.

[Taro T]

 

 

What about an MSG west where they do use a lot of the mothership's programming but sprinkle in more buffalo based stuff? I've been gone for ages so I have no idea if that station has much of an audience or not.

MSG West, CSN Buffalo, FS Buffalo, (is CBS Sportsnet going city by city now or does NBC plan to rebrand some of the CSN's?); to me, they'd all be the same. A lot of national programming (or in MSG's case, NYC programming - which IMHO is just as worthless ;)) w/ possibly an evening local sports wrapup to start.

 

Even though TP has the bucks to make an Empire resprout, the only way I see him doing a true Empire relaunch would be as a gift to the community. Which doesn't make sense.

[X. Benedict]

Me either. It seems like a far cry from a mandate to raise ticket prices.

 

Spoken like a man who thinks players are way too stupid to negotiate and mandate Player Revenue Oversight Committees with broad powers into a CBA (what a buncha undeducated rubes!), and that Sabrespace members are too stupid to understand it. (dumber than those uneducated, rube players, for sure!).

[Stoner]

NHL Clubs need to submit 3 year business plans to the league. Whether these growth projections are met is essential to getting money from the league.

 

I think the NHL CBA/Revenue Sharing talk could be moved. But with the moderators' indulgence I'll share some of what I'm learning.

 

The CBA doesn't say that all NHL clubs need to submit business plans to the league, or that meeting projections in those plans is essential to, or a condition of, getting revenue sharing. It says that teams already getting revenue sharing must submit a three year plan if they fall below a measure of average ticket revenues. It puts revenue sharing at risk but doesn't mean a team stops getting it. (Below, "recipient club" is a team that is receiving revenue sharing.)

 

So, the Sabres don't have to raise ticket prices to qualify for revenue sharing. They may have to do it in order to continue to receive revenue sharing (which is why Ted uses the word "jeopardize"). I hope I'm reading it right. It's late.

 

 

Any Recipient Club that has per-game Regular Season Gate Receipts (as

set forth in the NHL Gate Receipts and Paid Admissions Report) for the

most recently-completed League Year less than seventy-five (75) percent

of the League-wide average per-game Regular Season Gate Receipts for

that same League Year (e.g., $1,000,000 (approx.) x 75 percent, or

$750,000 for the 2011-12 League Year) shall be eligible for potential

assistance from the Industry Growth Fund, and subject to oversight by the

League and the Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee and review of its

performance as follows:

(A) Each such Recipient Club shall be required to submit to the League

and Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee a forward-looking

three-year business plan to establish a framework for improving its

financial performance, including but not limited to the steps the

Club intends to take in order to achieve an improved and

acceptable level of business performance. Industry Growth Fund

resources may be used to facilitate the implementation of a Club's

business plan, either through grants, loans, or in-kind contributions

in accordance with Section 49.7.

(B) The Revenue Sharing Oversight Committee may review and

approve such business plan, and evaluate the Club's performance

in subsequent League Years against the projections provided by

the Club in its business plan. A Club's continuing eligibility to

receive Distributions may be conditioned on successfully

executing on such plan.

 

Spoken like a man who thinks players are way too stupid to negotiate and mandate Player Revenue Oversight Committees with broad powers into a CBA (what a buncha undeducated rubes!), and that Sabrespace members are too stupid to understand it. (dumber than those uneducated, rube players, for sure!).

 

I just did 15 minutes of research and discovered that at least two of you had a key point flat out wrong. Want to keep poking the bear?

Edited September 11, 2014 by PASabreFan