Official: NHL expanding to Vegas for '17-18

[Taro T]

There is only one reason Houston doesn't already have a team and isn't in the running for one in the near future.  Les Alexander.

Nope. They wouldn't have supported an NHL team even before he took over the Sprockets.

[Iron Crotch]

Nope. They wouldn't have supported an NHL team even before he took over the Sprockets.

 

You "know" this based on what?

[Taro T]

You "know" this based on what?

The search function is your friend. I've posted extensively on this in the past.

 

After spending most all of last night bailing the flood waters out of my basement I don't have the energy to restate it all.

 

(Not trying to be snarky; just really f'n tired.)

[Iron Crotch]

The bottom line is that revenue (in the form of ticket sales) would make it financially viable (based on many folks' opinions here).  There are many posts outlining these reasons.  You may not agree that these reasons outweigh the fact that there'd be a team in freaking Vegas without a fanbase, but the reasons for pushing it are evident.

 

 

Cool! I don't think I'd be alone here in my interest to see a summary of the criteria and how the final numbers played out in that exercise, if you're willigng to share.  It's funny whenever Houston comes up; I think Taro always chimes in as he did above (and I think he's right) :)

 

We do a 5-year EBIDTA projection for 6 potential markets using various data sources to fuel the assumptions. Abridged version... A club's primary revenue sources come from ticket sales, broadcast revenue, concessions, arena revenue (if applicable), corporate sponsorships, plus some other smaller categories. In the NHL the bulk of revenues come from ticket sales (unlike, for example, the NFL). We start from a template, which is the Nashville Predators financials from several years ago. A healthy team in a non-traditional market has a 60/40 or better mix of corporate-to-non-corporate ticket sales. Luxury suite sales and a large premium seat buying base are what a non-traditional market needs to survive while the casual fan base is converted to die hard fans over a number of years hopefully. On the expense side: player salaries, marketing, lease expenses (if applicable), broadcast expenses, customer services, and some other smaller categories. Arena ownership is huge. That allows the team/owner to capture non-hockey arena revenues and avoid a lease payment.

 

From there you mix in an absolutely massive amount of information from a variety of sources about the building, seating capacity, number of luxury suites, concession agreements, broadcasting revenues and fees, existing corporate base, existing sponsorship opportunities, marketing ROI, ticket prices, capacity assumptions, mix of corporate and non-corporate fans, mix of casual to die hard fans, blah, blah, blah,...  massive spreadsheets.  The results vary given assumptions, but the financials generally work very favorably for Houston, although the absolute best is always another Toronto-area team. What drives Houston is the huge corporate base (26 Fortune-500 companies) and favorable downtown arena deal. We on this board are die hard hockey fans and we tend to think other markets need to be full of die hard fans to survive. But, that isn't necessarily the case.

 

BTW - By comparison the entire state of Nevada only has two Fortune-500 companies (Harrah's and MGM Mirage). I don't like a revenue model based on out-of-town fans, but it can work with some clever marketing and if the casinos really support the team.

[Hoss]

The amount of talent is growing at a rate it never has before... Especially in the U.S. People worried that expansion would water down the talent pool every other time there was expansion, too. I'm not worried. Vegas is a definite risk, but I'm interested in seeing how it works out.

 

I'm looking forward to two new teams and a relocated Arizona franchise. It'll breathe some new life into the league and give more jobs to talented guys who may not have gotten opportunities otherwise.

[PotentPowerPlay22]

Las Vegas is not a sports town. It would be a bad choice. Hamilton Ontario or a second team in the Toronto area would be much better. 

[LGR4GM]

I'll bet money no western team moves to the eastern conference as long as there is a 14/16 split.  No chance in hell Bettman will go 13/17.  

[biodork]

I'll bet money no western team moves to the eastern conference as long as there is a 14/16 split.  No chance in hell Bettman will go 13/17.

 

Can we trade them back Detroit? :)

[Hoss]

In the weirdest twist to this saga yet: The woman who got up in front of the mayor and freaked out about her paying for tickets and them not donated $10k to charity just so she could tase the mayor.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ODD_MAYOR_TASER_COYOTES_FAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-13-19-11-13

[PromoTheRobot]

In the weirdest twist to this saga yet: The woman who got up in front of the mayor and freaked out about her paying for tickets and them not donated $10k to charity just so she could tase the mayor.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ODD_MAYOR_TASER_COYOTES_FAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-13-19-11-13

Olbermann did a monologue about her. The point everyone seems to miss is she doesn't live in Glendale. She lives in Phoenix. So she's squawking about the lease but her taxes aren't paying for the apparently lopsided deal Glendale signed off on.

[Hoss]

Olbermann did a monologue about her. The point everyone seems to miss is she doesn't live in Glendale. She lives in Phoenix. So she's squawking about the lease but her taxes aren't paying for the apparently lopsided deal Glendale signed off on.

Deadspin also pointed that out. If her and a fellow 'Yotes fan have the money to drop $10K to tase somebody, but they're afraid of tickets going up if the lease deal is redone?

[SwampD]

In the weirdest twist to this saga yet: The woman who got up in front of the mayor and freaked out about her paying for tickets and them not donated $10k to charity just so she could tase the mayor.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ODD_MAYOR_TASER_COYOTES_FAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-13-19-11-13

Beware the fool that questions her fandom.

[MattPie]

Deadspin also pointed that out. If her and a fellow 'Yotes fan have the money to drop $10K to tase somebody, but they're afraid of tickets going up if the lease deal is redone?

 

Maybe she raised the money on yotespace.com. :)

[Eleven]

It would be a great market. There are 25000 hotel rooms within walking distance of the arena,and close to double that on free monorail lines. It's already a sports destination city, filling up on NFL weekends and during events like the final four. A hockey game would be the perfect filler activity between dinner and club outings for guys weekends or conventions.

 

There would be huge corporate support from the convention trade and casinos. Sure most of the tickets would be from out of towners, but that's support that Seattle or KC would never get. Very few fans would travel to KC from California to watch their team play. Those fans will travel to Vegas.

 

Seattle and KC would be bigger risks, because if local interest for the team doesn't materialize, the NHL would have another Phoenix on its hands. In Vegas, the tourist trade can sustain the franchise as local interest builds.

 

Unless you can convince me that a majority of travelers to Las Vegas are hardcore hockey fans, I'm not buying this argument.  

[Hoss]

NHL to formally announce opening of expansion process today http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-to-announce-opening-of-expansion-process/

[Eleven]

Just think--it's the NHL with even more McCormick!

[Huckleberry]

QC deserves another team, but i just can't see them adding another team to the east.  Canes or phanters will be moved before that happens.

No way they put the red wings and blue jackets back out west.

[SwampD]

Just think--it's the NHL with even more McCormick!

So, we're getting a spicier NHL?

[Eleven]

So, we're getting a spicier NHL?

 

Hardly, unfortunately.  

[Randall Flagg]

When do we find out where? And would the expansion be for 16-17 season?

[Hoss]

When do we find out where? And would the expansion be for 16-17 season?

Most believe they'll announce Vegas this fall. Likely for 16-17. If they go to Seattle that may be 16-17 but could more likely be 17-18. Multiple reporters have stated that they have no issue with 31 teams for a year or two.

[LabattBlue]

Just think--it's the NHL with even more McCormick!

Sad...but it doesn't have to be that way.  If the officials called the game the way the rules state, and the coaches decided to coach offense instead of left wing locks, neutral zone traps and all that other crap, there are plenty of undersize professional players around the world with skill levels to succeed in the NHL.

[spndnchz]

When do we find out where? And would the expansion be for 16-17 season?

 

It's going to take them a good year to go through the bidding and vetting process, so no.

[pi2000]

In the weirdest twist to this saga yet: The woman who got up in front of the mayor and freaked out about her paying for tickets and them not donated $10k to charity just so she could tase the mayor.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_ODD_MAYOR_TASER_COYOTES_FAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-06-13-19-11-13

 

I have a friend who worked for the Coyotes the past 2 seasons.   As per him, the owners never wanted to keep the team to be in Arizona, they wanted an expansion team, but it's much cheaper to re-locate an existing franchise ($101mil fee?) vs paying the expansion fee of +$450mil.  

 

So, while the focus has been on demonizing the city council of Glendale, in reality it's the owners who are looking for a way out, and they believe they have found the loophole to break off the lease agreement.  They sign the lease agreement with the city of Glendale, then turn around and hire Craig Tindall (city attorney) and Julie Fisoni (city manager)  which give them an out to break off the lease. Arizona law states that any time a state official signs a contract, "the person involved may not work for the entity who is receiving the contract during the life of such contract...."   The City of Glendale alleges that Tindall and Frisoni, were heavily involved in drafting and negotiating the lease agreement.

 

It makes total sense if you think about it.  The owners never wanted to stay in Arizona, so they sign the lease, then hire the city attorney and city manager who worked on the agreement to give them a way out.     I just wonder how much they're lining the pockets of the city council members.         

[Hoss]

It's going to take them a good year to go through the bidding and vetting process, so no.

Highly doubtful it takes that long for Vegas. As I said above the expectation is that the Vegas club will be announced in the fall. Likely for 16-17. That's the expectation.

 

There is no bidding in Vegas. They know the owner. They know the stadium. They know the ticket sales. All they have to do is vet the owner (he's close with Gretzky and others in the hockey world so that's a formality).

Edited June 24, 2015 by Hoss