Most Disappointing Sabre of All Time

[SwampD]

Could,… um,… Miller be in the running?

[Neo]

My mom flew, mid seventies, on a commercial flight with the Sabres. She said, amazed, "they all smoked".

 

I remember going to a practice during the playoffs, 1975 ish, and talking to Brian Spencer in the parking lot. He brought us in to watch. The practice was closed during the playoffs. We were standing in the hallway watching the players arrive and go into the locker room. I heard a voice singing The Platters "Only You". The singer rounded the corner. It was Gil. He was with Larry Mickey and a third player I don't remember. Perreault and Mickey were smoking. I was shocked. What a day, though. Jerry Korab taunted Perreault throughout the practice. "Come on, Superstar." Everyone skated by Gary Bromley and jabbed him with sticks, poked at his skates, tugged his jersey, etc.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Neo

[darksabre]

Keenan says in the article he was surprised when he got to Chicago, because not many guys in Philly smoked.

 

Semantics aside, your point is beside the point. Everyone, even in the 1970s, knew smoking was bad for you. Any professional athlete would have known it was keeping him from being his very best. Perreault apparently just didn't care. He also routinely came to camps overweight and out of shape, but of course, dude, you'll tell me they all did.

 

What are you even talking about? You're trying to make Perreault sound like some kind of exception for being a smoker in the 1970s. All I've done is refute that claim. There is evidence for days that these guys didn't give a crap about what cigarettes meant for them.

 

And these guys DID come to camp out of shape. Not that they ever really were in that good of shape to begin with.

 

Have you ever seen the old Maple Leafs camp invitation from 1962?

 

 

 

As far as I can tell as long as you didn't show up to training camp wasted you could pass those minimum requirements. I can't imagine the standards in Perreault's era were all that much higher.

 

You're making hockey players out to be supremely trained athletes back in the 1970s. It simply wasn't this way. The mid-late eighties really saw players start focusing on their fitness beyond skating in practice and playing some golf or baseball in the summer to stay sharp.

[Taro T]

 

 

What are you even talking about? You're trying to make Perreault sound like some kind of exception for being a smoker in the 1970s. All I've done is refute that claim. There is evidence for days that these guys didn't give a crap about what cigarettes meant for them.

 

And these guys DID come to camp out of shape. Not that they ever really were in that good of shape to begin with.

 

Have you ever seen the old Maple Leafs camp invitation from 1962?

 

 

 

As far as I can tell as long as you didn't show up to training camp wasted you could pass those minimum requirements. I can't imagine the standards in Perreault's era were all that much higher.

 

You're making hockey players out to be supremely trained athletes back in the 1970s. It simply wasn't this way. The mid-late eighties really saw players start focusing on their fitness beyond skating in practice and playing some golf or baseball in the summer to stay sharp.

But even in the mid-80's Super Mario came into the league a heavy smoker. Smoking was a big part of Quebec culture.

[Ottosmagic13]

Players with goals last season: 27

Players with less GP than Leino (that scored a goal): 15

Source: http://sabres.nhl.com/club/stats.htm

Players that cost more: 3!?!

Source: http://www.capgeek.com/sabres/archive/

What we got in return for players that cost more:

Tyler Myers - Still a Sabre

Pomminstein - Matt Hackett and forward Johan Larsson, as well as a 2013 first-round pick and 2014 second-round pick (we also gave a 4th)

Miller - Michal Neuvirth and defenseman Rostislav Klesla (Halak's return), forward Chris Stewart, prospect William Carrier, a 2015 first-round pick and a conditional 2016 third-round pick

Leino - BUYOUT

 

My vote Leino

 

edit: Pomminstein, HA!

Edited August 21, 2014 by Ottosmagic13

[darksabre]

But even in the mid-80's Super Mario came into the league a heavy smoker. Smoking was a big part of Quebec culture.

 

Absolutely. I bet smoking really didn't start dying down until the 1990s. Only in the past decade have anti-smoking campaigns really gotten down and dirty too.

[Doohicksie]

Go big or go home. Gilbert Perreault.

 

How could you possibly be disappointed in Gilbert? Did you only know him late in his career?

 

My most disappointing player: Thomas Vanek.

 

Yes. More talent in his pinky that most of the team, but he so rarely put it to use. He would have been a helluva player if he could have been a perennial second-liner. He's got the potential to be a first liner, but he never fulfilled that potential. If anything, when assigned first-line duty, he got worse.

[Two or less]

Leino by a country mile. Kozlov couldn't wait to get out of here, but his play was nowhere near as embarrassing as Leino.

 

Agreed. He was plan-B after Richards and our last memory of Leino before giving him the big payday was his goal against us on Easter in overtime. All the talk after signing Leino is that his best was still to come.

 

I think it's hilarious that the idea for this thread was taken from the Puck Daddy article on how Tim Connolly is the most disappointing player in our franchise history, yet he has received 0 votes out of 31 and Leino himself has gotten 22.

[Doohicksie]

I think Connolly produced for a while and most of us recognize that the reason he faded so quickly was probably the concussion thing. He was a heart and soul guy, he just couldn't put up after he got banged around.

 

Leino just sucked. And when he didn't suck, he still sucked. Oh and one more thing: he sucks.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Neuvirths Glove

[drnkirishone]

i voted other. My vote was for Hasek. I base this on the following. The single greatest hockey player I have ever watched play was number 39. Older people talk about how amazing gilbert was and him being the greatest player. To me this is nonsense. The greatest was Hasek. He alone got the sabres points in the standings, he alone won playoff games and playoff series. he was voted the best in the league not only at his position but overall twice.

 

Now that I have built him up it is time to tear him down. This is a player that had quit on his team multiple times and he was not just any player when he did this. He was the player the whole team was built around. If the locker room rumors are to be trusted he was not just one of the players dividing the team and front office he was one of the central players. On top of that he leveraged the team to trade him so far below market value that it was laughable how little they got in return and helped sent the team into a rebuld without much in the way of a return.

 

This is the greatest sabre to wear the uniform, one of the best players ever, and arguably the greatest goalie ever. What did that get the sabres? 1 game six in the finals within 8 years. Looking back I would never of thought Hasek would only get us one shot at a cup

[Hawerchuk]

OK, Leino was a bust for sure and a horrific signing, but I voted Slava #&*! Kozlov because he laid down as soon as he arrived and never even tried. F that d-bag.

[Claude_Verret]

Could,… um,… Miller be in the running?

 

If your expectation was Hasek II, then sure.

[Stoner]

i voted other. My vote was for Hasek. I base this on the following. The single greatest hockey player I have ever watched play was number 39. Older people talk about how amazing gilbert was and him being the greatest player. To me this is nonsense. The greatest was Hasek. He alone got the sabres points in the standings, he alone won playoff games and playoff series. he was voted the best in the league not only at his position but overall twice.

 

Now that I have built him up it is time to tear him down. This is a player that had quit on his team multiple times and he was not just any player when he did this. He was the player the whole team was built around. If the locker room rumors are to be trusted he was not just one of the players dividing the team and front office he was one of the central players. On top of that he leveraged the team to trade him so far below market value that it was laughable how little they got in return and helped sent the team into a rebuld without much in the way of a return.

 

This is the greatest sabre to wear the uniform, one of the best players ever, and arguably the greatest goalie ever. What did that get the sabres? 1 game six in the finals within 8 years. Looking back I would never of thought Hasek would only get us one shot at a cup

 

Good post.

[TrueBlueGED]

Wow. Reading through this, I'm struck by what I consider to be just outrageous expectations and standards for individual players. I fully expect Reinhart to get shat on if he's "only" a 65 point player and doesn't go deep in the playoffs yearly.

 

Leino is easily my most disappointing. The expectations for him were lower than a few who have been named, but he fell so amazingly short of even a low bar that it trumps everyone else. Seriously, I doubt even the people who thought he would bust expected he'd go an entire season without a single goal.

[Eleven]

What are you even talking about? You're trying to make Perreault sound like some kind of exception for being a smoker in the 1970s. All I've done is refute that claim. There is evidence for days that these guys didn't give a crap about what cigarettes meant for them.

 

And these guys DID come to camp out of shape. Not that they ever really were in that good of shape to begin with.

 

Have you ever seen the old Maple Leafs camp invitation from 1962?

 

 

 

As far as I can tell as long as you didn't show up to training camp wasted you could pass those minimum requirements. I can't imagine the standards in Perreault's era were all that much higher.

 

You're making hockey players out to be supremely trained athletes back in the 1970s. It simply wasn't this way. The mid-late eighties really saw players start focusing on their fitness beyond skating in practice and playing some golf or baseball in the summer to stay sharp.

 

I could do those calisthenics right now, without breaking a sweat, and I am in horrible shape right now.

 

Also, I can't believe some of you guys took the bait!

[waldo]

Dale McCourt ? Norm lacolm?

 

+1 lol

[JJFIVEOH]

I think Connolly produced for a while and most of us recognize that the reason he faded so quickly was probably the concussion thing. He was a heart and soul guy, he just couldn't put up after he got banged around.

 

Leino just sucked. And when he didn't suck, he still sucked. Oh and one more thing: he sucks.

 

I agree, Connolly doesn't belong on that list. 2008-09 he led the team in points per game, the following year had he not missed nine games he could have ended up leading the team in points. Considering his concussion history I thought he was pretty damn good. Now, if we did a poll on who is/was the biggest whipping boy in Sabres history he would be #1 by a large margin. I never understood the relentless criticism for the guy.

 

(I wish I knew why spell check doesn't work on this forum using Firefox)

[Claude_Verret]

The Anders(s)on's. Shawn and Bo Mikael.

[dudacek]

The Anders(s)on's. Shawn and Bo Mikael.

 

Very good. Shawn was a fifth overall pick and the highest ranked defenceman in that draft.

He did nothing and we could have had Brian Leetch.

 

For me, this usually focuses on picks that bust. Erik Rasmussen was a number seven overall and at the world juniors he looked like Brendan Shanahan. My hopes were sky-high. He's definitely up there for me.

Edited August 21, 2014 by dudacek

[Sabres Fan in NS]

i voted other. My vote was for Hasek. I base this on the following. The single greatest hockey player I have ever watched play was number 39. Older people talk about how amazing gilbert was and him being the greatest player. To me this is nonsense. The greatest was Hasek. He alone got the sabres points in the standings, he alone won playoff games and playoff series. he was voted the best in the league not only at his position but overall twice.

 

Now that I have built him up it is time to tear him down. This is a player that had quit on his team multiple times and he was not just any player when he did this. He was the player the whole team was built around. If the locker room rumors are to be trusted he was not just one of the players dividing the team and front office he was one of the central players. On top of that he leveraged the team to trade him so far below market value that it was laughable how little they got in return and helped sent the team into a rebuld without much in the way of a return.

 

This is the greatest sabre to wear the uniform, one of the best players ever, and arguably the greatest goalie ever. What did that get the sabres? 1 game six in the finals within 8 years. Looking back I would never of thought Hasek would only get us one shot at a cup

 

Good post.

 

Much more detailed then my input in the other thread, but I agree completely. Quitting on your team = worst thing that any athlete could do.

 

Good post.

 

:flirt:

[Stoner]

Eleven, you're the only one trolling, and I can't believe I'm taking your bait.

 

Perreault shouldn't have smoked. He would have been a better player had he not smoked. Everyone didn't smoke, to the extent that Keenan was shocked by the number of players who smoked in Chicago. Certainly there were players who quit smoking to improve their games, and certainly enough players didn't smoke so that Perreault should have seen the error of his ways. Like d4rk's knock on Vanek, apparently it was just another case of a talented player who didn't really have that burning desire to be the very best he could be.

 

Nothing controversial here.

[Eleven]

I'm not biting.

[SwampD]

I'm not biting.

I will. PA, you can't say "semantics aside" and then play the semantics game.

 

Everybody smoked. Smoking is a non-factor on whether Perreault cared enough or not.

 

I actually wish we had more smokers and drinkers and general miscreants in the game today. I find today's uber-atheletes to be really boring. It's why I get such a kick out of all the Pat Kane hoopla whenever he is seen actually having fun,… at his Stanley Freakin' Cup parades!

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I will. PA, you can't say "semantics aside" and then play the semantics game.

 

Everybody smoked. Smoking is a non-factor on whether Perreault cared enough or not.

 

I actually wish we had more smokers and drinkers and general miscreants in the game today. I find today's uber-atheletes to be really boring. It's why I get such a kick out of all the Pat Kane hoopla whenever he is seen actually having fun,… at his Stanley Freakin' Cup parades!

 

I think we do. They just hide it and then deny it.

 

Same as in every day life for everybody else.

[Stoner]

I will. PA, you can't say "semantics aside" and then play the semantics game.

 

Everybody smoked. Smoking is a non-factor on whether Perreault cared enough or not.

 

I actually wish we had more smokers and drinkers and general miscreants in the game today. I find today's uber-atheletes to be really boring. It's why I get such a kick out of all the Pat Kane hoopla whenever he is seen actually having fun,… at his Stanley Freakin' Cup parades!

 

Bull. People quit smoking in the 70s and 80s so they could be healthier. The trend toward many fewer people smoking didn't start overnight. It wasn't the freaking Middle Ages. Oh yeah, world-class athletes also stayed in shape year round.