(OT) Robin Williams died today

[Samson's Flow]

I don't have anything to add to this great discussion, but wanted to mention that I have really enjoyed reading the viewpoints and stories in this thread. IT has helped me to greatly improve my understanding of depression and the state of mind behind it.

 

Thanks.

[Randall Flagg]

I'll echo the understanding part. I'm not kidding when I say a few things expressed up-thread will be able to help me out in my situation tremendously and have changed how I see some things. Thank you so much everybody

[drnkirishone]

If anyone wants to read a interesting tale of someone battling depression hit up hyperbole and a half. She has 2 lengthy posts (with pictures!!!!!) About her depression

[cdexchange]

Wow, I don't think any of us saw this coming:

http://mashable.com/...om-fb-main-link

 

Yet another layer of sadness to this story.

Edited August 14, 2014 by cdexchange

[shrader]

Wow, I don't think any of us saw this coming:

http://mashable.com/...om-fb-main-link

 

Yet another layer of sadness to this story.

 

I thnk it was Aud Smell who posted the so called last picture taken of Williams earlier in the thread. My dad has Parkinson's and when I saw that picture I noticed how his posture and general appearance really reminded me of my dad (and grandfather who also had it). I guess I know why now. It's just something about the muscle tone in the picture.

[nfreeman]

Truly. Becoming desensitized to the world around you. Being free from your own mind. Thank you for sharing that.

 

 

 

To that end I think it has a lot to do with anyone who sees the world so dramatically different. We are social creatures and we seek to be accepted and part of the group. For those who see things differently it's harder to be accepted. Many times my way of expressing thoughts turn people away. The things I see are not seen by others. The way I approach certain scenarios is different and I notice that people struggle to understand that.

 

I'm not sure rationality goes away. It's just trumped, extremely hard, by the blackness. When I'm not feeling well I know I am being ridiculous. You tell yourself there's no reason to feel like this. You tell yourself that there are happy things. You tell yourself that your family matters, that your friends matter. The problem is that it doesn't do anything for you. It doesn't register. They are like the words of some unknown scientist performing an observation on my life and jotting them down in his notebook. They are true, but have no meaning to me. There's no connection to it at all.

 

We have all seen some act of kindness that has filled us with great feelings. Let's use the puppy scenario (who doesn't love puppies?). During those bad periods you look at that puppy and you say, "Damn he's cute. I should probably smile about it. I should laugh a little bit at his antics. I should pet him. Look at him, he's all full of life and happiness." Then you say, "So I smiled, I laughed, I pet him. I'm not happy. I'm nothing. What the hell is wrong with me? Why am I like this? Why can't I enjoy the puppy as much as everyone else? Why is life so mean to me? Why can't I just enjoy this one simple thing?" Usually about there the stress begins, the issues begin, your mind begins racing at about a million irrational thoughts per second and it tires itself out. I'll begin yawning.. all I want to do is sleep. I want to sleep and hope that sleep brings more comfort.

 

I'm thankful that these days those bad periods happen extremely infrequently. They have still shaped who I am. I speak about them because I accept them and I let myself know they are real. It's somewhat therapeutic to be certain. I've never been medicated because I never wanted to lose the parts of my mind that make me who I am. I've read this about a lot of others as well. I've read about those who have and then stopped and how dead the world feels. I don't want that. On good days being alive to the world is something fantastic and I would hate to lose that. I read the "study" a few months ago about the mass shooting and the ties that they all supposedly had to these drugs. I don't want that. I don't want to feel like the world isn't real, to have some kind of filter put in place that reduces its importance to me. I've never had thoughts about wanting to harm others. I've never blamed them for my lot in life. I don't know if those who commit mass shootings had those thoughts prior to medication. I'm just convinced that nature made me this way and so I can use natural means to combat it.

 

One last thing.. I mentioned how the pressure to perform might actually harm Robin Williams. Right after posting that I came across this article. Take it for what it's worth. - http://www.telegraph...-Doubtfire.html

 

LTS -- just curious -- is exercise one of the natural means you use? I've heard of people going for a run or a swim or other vigorous workout when they feel a dark phase coming on and that regular exercise is generally recommended as something to keep the wolves off the doorstep. It seems logical to me, but that's just a layman's guess.

 

Thanks again for opening up on this. It seems like a lot of us here know someone that has been affected by it. As others have already pointed out, this discussion has been quite meaningful.

[Stoner]

nfreeman, I almost feel embarrassed to bring my own brief bout of depression into this — because it pales in comparison, I think, to the kind of depression LTS is talking about — but getting outside and walking last winter and going skating did wonders for me. The depression literally lifted for that time I was moving, then settled back in at home.

 

I also just found out my Vitamin D level is low, and that's linked to depression. It could be one of those chicken and egg deals, though. If you're depressed you might not be eating well, and you might not get out into the sun much.

[Johnny DangerFace]

I also just found out my Vitamin D level is low, and that's linked to depression. It could be one of those chicken and egg deals, though. If you're depressed you might not be eating well, and you might not get out into the sun much.

 

I love this discussion topic so much. I studied psychology for years, but I decided to run as far away from psychology as possible as I think the way they diagnosis people (the DSM, who they diagnose, and the disorders present), the prescriptions and medicine they hand out, and the vast majority of the "chemical imbalance" viewpoint will be laughed at in 50 years.

 

But my small opinion on something like depression is that it is very serious and real. But looking at it primarily from a biological viewpoint isn't the correct way to approach it. Medicine and concerns of serotonin or vitamin levels shouldn't be a focal point at all.

 

(I'm on a phone and i hope keeping my opinion brief hasn't made it unclear haha.)

 

 

[DR HOLLIDAY]

I love the music Kurt Cobain made, I hate Kurt Cobain because of all the great music he cheated me out of. It's perfectly natural to be angry or judge. Performers like Cobain or Robin Williams live theirs lives trying to reach as many people as they can, make that connection that they ride to great heights of success. If you are one of those people they reach and touch through their art it is a natural reaction to feel frustration and anger when they take it away by their own hand.

 

I am happy to enjoy the great music of his that I still enjoy today…….Sometimes the glass is half full man.

[Stoner]

Shifting gears a bit... I watched Good Morning, Vietnam last night and Awakenings tonight. Good Morning, Vietnam fell a little flat — it's the first time I've watched it since it was in theaters. I loved the improvisational work Williams did on the air. It just seemed like that was the whole point of the movie, to see if his comedic genius would translate to the big screen. Then they slapped on a fairly weak plot, because a movie needs a plot. Williams' acting wasn't great.

 

It was great in Awakenings, and Robert De Niro was brilliant as well.

 

Mrs. Doubtfire is next, if it's available at our Family Video. Yes, there are places left where people go to video stores.

 

On a final note, there was a scene in Good Morning, Vietnam that brought me to tears. Kronauer, the DJ played by Williams, has his show reinstated, but he doesn't want to go back on the air. He and his assistant, played by Forest Whitaker, get stuck behind a convoy of troops headed for the front, and Whitaker tells the troops who's in his passenger seat in a ploy to play on the DJ's ego. Kronauer at first doesn't want to say anything, but then he stands up and starts working the crowd, asking where the troops are from, riffing, busting chops.

 

I took the scene literally, Williams as himself, the troops the nation that loved him, and the final moments of the scene so apropos: Williams says he won't forget them, and vehicle after vehicle passes by him, the troops waving and cheering. Williams looks a little overwhelmed. His job is done.

 

The scene, minus the troops passing by, is near the end of this clip.

 

[LTS]

LTS -- just curious -- is exercise one of the natural means you use? I've heard of people going for a run or a swim or other vigorous workout when they feel a dark phase coming on and that regular exercise is generally recommended as something to keep the wolves off the doorstep. It seems logical to me, but that's just a layman's guess.

 

Thanks again for opening up on this. It seems like a lot of us here know someone that has been affected by it. As others have already pointed out, this discussion has been quite meaningful.

 

Exercise is there (not enough of it however!). I do play hockey and because of everything that is going on during a game your brain focuses there and you forget about everything else. I also coach youth sports because it takes the focus away from you and onto the kids. It's an incredibly rewarding experience.

 

I also game quite a bit. For me gaming is a great way to just calm the mind. I know people look at it in different ways. There's absolutely no doubt there is an immense amount of visual stimulation in gaming. At the same time it's easy to lose yourself in them. I don't play first person shooter games often. I don't mind them, but most of the time in general online game play they suck. I did play competitively quite a few years ago on the PC when CounterStrike first came out. That was more entertaining because we actually planned strategies and stuff.

 

nfreeman, I almost feel embarrassed to bring my own brief bout of depression into this — because it pales in comparison, I think, to the kind of depression LTS is talking about — but getting outside and walking last winter and going skating did wonders for me. The depression literally lifted for that time I was moving, then settled back in at home.

 

I also just found out my Vitamin D level is low, and that's linked to depression. It could be one of those chicken and egg deals, though. If you're depressed you might not be eating well, and you might not get out into the sun much.

 

No need to compare, like people have varying pain thresholds so to are the thresholds for how people react to depression and its impacts. It's all serious to me, so never worry that your level isn't important enough or severe enough to discuss or act upon.

 

I do LOVE being outside and in the middle of nothing. I live near Mendon Ponds Park (for those in Rochester) and I love walking in the park when I get a chance. There's so much space. Nature has never stressed me out. I've never blamed nature for anything. In my opinion, nature is perfect. There generally is no wasted energy. Things happen because they must happen. It's like seeing two trees come together and if they are equal enough they stop battling and just agree to grow together. It's almost perfect harmony for me. So, to see that natural order and be a part of that really resonates with me and is soothing. Even though my mind is free to wander during those times it is positively influenced by things that I take to have no negative meaning. They just exist, as I exist.

 

The struggle with mental illness is I think the fear the people have to realize that everyone may have some form of some mental illness. The fear that being diagnosed with some mental illness might make you inferior or be treated that way. People are afraid to face their own mortality and their own shortcomings. So, it's easier to ignore it than perhaps realize they themselves share something in common.

 

In addition, I do think there's a fear of mandated medication, treatment, etc. by the government. That somehow, just because you have some mental conflict that you are a threat to society. I can't blame people for that. We fear the unknown and mental illness is highly unknown at this point.

[DR HOLLIDAY]

Exercise is there (not enough of it however!). I do play hockey and because of everything that is going on during a game your brain focuses there and you forget about everything else. I also coach youth sports because it takes the focus away from you and onto the kids. It's an incredibly rewarding experience.

 

I also game quite a bit. For me gaming is a great way to just calm the mind. I know people look at it in different ways. There's absolutely no doubt there is an immense amount of visual stimulation in gaming. At the same time it's easy to lose yourself in them. I don't play first person shooter games often. I don't mind them, but most of the time in general online game play they suck. I did play competitively quite a few years ago on the PC when CounterStrike first came out. That was more entertaining because we actually planned strategies and stuff.

 

 

 

No need to compare, like people have varying pain thresholds so to are the thresholds for how people react to depression and its impacts. It's all serious to me, so never worry that your level isn't important enough or severe enough to discuss or act upon.

 

I do LOVE being outside and in the middle of nothing. I live near Mendon Ponds Park (for those in Rochester) and I love walking in the park when I get a chance. There's so much space. Nature has never stressed me out. I've never blamed nature for anything. In my opinion, nature is perfect. There generally is no wasted energy. Things happen because they must happen. It's like seeing two trees come together and if they are equal enough they stop battling and just agree to grow together. It's almost perfect harmony for me. So, to see that natural order and be a part of that really resonates with me and is soothing. Even though my mind is free to wander during those times it is positively influenced by things that I take to have no negative meaning. They just exist, as I exist.

 

The struggle with mental illness is I think the fear the people have to realize that everyone may have some form of some mental illness. The fear that being diagnosed with some mental illness might make you inferior or be treated that way. People are afraid to face their own mortality and their own shortcomings. So, it's easier to ignore it than perhaps realize they themselves share something in common.

 

In addition, I do think there's a fear of mandated medication, treatment, etc. by the government. That somehow, just because you have some mental conflict that you are a threat to society. I can't blame people for that. We fear the unknown and mental illness is highly unknown at this point.

 

Thanks for sharing man.

[Stoner]

nfreeman, I almost feel embarrassed to bring my own brief bout of depression into this — because it pales in comparison, I think, to the kind of depression LTS is talking about — but getting outside and walking last winter and going skating did wonders for me. The depression literally lifted for that time I was moving, then settled back in at home.

 

On the other hand, for those with severe or chronic depression, it's not just a matter of "pulling yourself up by your bootstraps" or "getting out there and feeling better!":

 

There’s a common myth that a look on the bright side cures depression. That if you think positively enough, you’ll simply snap out of it. But individuals can’t snap out of depression any more than they can will themselves out of chronic asthma.

Another misconception is that dysthymia doesn’t require treatment. Lifestyle changes, exercise, and social support are usually enough to improve short-term mild depression, Hellerstein said. But this doesn’t work for dysthymia. Most people with dysthymia have typically tried modifying their lifestyle; yet their depression doesn’t disappear, he said.

http://psychcentral.com/lib/a-current-look-at-chronic-depression/00011267

[darksabre]

Richard Attenborough has passed. There's number three. :(

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-28923074

[JJFIVEOH]

I love the music Kurt Cobain made, I hate Kurt Cobain because of all the great music he cheated me out of. It's perfectly natural to be angry or judge. Performers like Cobain or Robin Williams live theirs lives trying to reach as many people as they can, make that connection that they ride to great heights of success. If you are one of those people they reach and touch through their art it is a natural reaction to feel frustration and anger when they take it away by their own hand.

 

Drug addiction helped mold Williams' career. Drugs helped Cobain become the artist he was. A combination of drugs and the type of personalisty that goes along with these types of people helped make them who they eventually became. If they weren't those types of people there is a pretty good chance we never would have known who they were.

[Stoner]

Finally saw Mrs. Doubtfire. Cute but not terribly funny. A few good chuckles though.

[LTS]

Drug addiction helped mold Williams' career. Drugs helped Cobain become the artist he was. A combination of drugs and the type of personalisty that goes along with these types of people helped make them who they eventually became. If they weren't those types of people there is a pretty good chance we never would have known who they were.

 

Just curious why you think the last statement? I understand that, technically speaking, we are all products of our experiences. So, yes, technically drug use would have some impact on the development of a person and once used could be claimed to help make them who they are. However, to assume that without drugs they would not have been the same or perhaps even better is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

 

I'm hesitant to paint drugs as some kind of creative release mechanism and the means by which some individual was able to "make it".

[drnkirishone]

 

 

Just curious why you think the last statement? I understand that, technically speaking, we are all products of our experiences. So, yes, technically drug use would have some impact on the development of a person and once used could be claimed to help make them who they are. However, to assume that without drugs they would not have been the same or perhaps even better is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

 

I'm hesitant to paint drugs as some kind of creative release mechanism and the means by which some individual was able to "make it".

I would label them a coping mechanism. I would also say the creative entertaining types are drawn to them as such. I would not say the made it because of drugs. I would say drugs created a situation where they could burn bright for a bit

[Stoner]

The better question might be whether Williams would have "made it" had he not been mentally ill. We were entertained in part because he was manic, right? Then we cursed it when the depressive side (apparently) contributed to his demise.

[biodork]

Speaking of comedians -- Joan Rivers passed today:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/04/showbiz/joan-rivers-dead/

 

Very different circumstances, but still sad.

[nfreeman]

Speaking of comedians -- Joan Rivers passed today:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2...an-rivers-dead/

 

Very different circumstances, but still sad.

 

She was great a couple of years ago as a guest star on an episode of "Louie."

[darksabre]

Speaking of comedians -- Joan Rivers passed today:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/04/showbiz/joan-rivers-dead/

 

Very different circumstances, but still sad.

 

I was never the biggest Joan fan but I probably should be. She clearly was a big contributor to the comedy field for women.

[biodork]

I was never the biggest Joan fan but I probably should be. She clearly was a big contributor to the comedy field for women.

 

I wasn't really a big fan (she was always kind of annoying), but she was a pioneer in her field and I appreciated that she could laugh at herself after the plastic surgery debacle. Odd circumstances around her passing.

[SwampD]

 

 

She was great a couple of years ago as a guest star on an episode of "Louie."

One of the few episodes of that I have seen. Hilarious.

 

I always liked her. She was completely fake, but real about it.

[JJFIVEOH]

Just curious why you think the last statement? I understand that, technically speaking, we are all products of our experiences. So, yes, technically drug use would have some impact on the development of a person and once used could be claimed to help make them who they are. However, to assume that without drugs they would not have been the same or perhaps even better is a bit of a stretch isn't it?

 

I'm hesitant to paint drugs as some kind of creative release mechanism and the means by which some individual was able to "make it".

 

Sorry about that. I read your response when you posted and completely forgot to reply.

 

No, I don't think it's a stretch. Most actors/comedian/entertainers will tell you that if you are lucky enough to get a window into stardom, it's usually a very small window. Once you miss your chance you may never get it again. From what I have read over the years, Robin's craziest drug days were in the 70's to mid 80's. It started before he became famous. He got the attention because of his off-the-wall, eccentric delivery. Cocaine helped to accentuate that delivery. Once he became a star he was able to showcase his talents. If he hadn't been a coke addict in the mid 70's and his act hadn't been quite as unconventional he may have been overlooked for the next guy on stage.

 

Not saying any of this is good or bad. But like has been mentioned, entertainers that rely on creativity for their livelihood sometimes need to find an advantage. Maybe they are creative because they found drugs first. Who knows, everybody is different. Do you think anybody would know who Judy Garland is if she wasn't an addict? How about Philip Seymour Hoffman? Jim Morrison? Jimi Hendrix? Stevie Ray Vaughan? I don't think we would. Some of our most beloved and influential entertainers have been addicts and most of them got that way because of drugs. With the highs come the lows and that's why so many of them end in tragedy. They knew the risks, they chose fame first. As tragic as it is for the families involved, not to mention the fans, we should thank them for choosing the self-destructive route because we may never have been entertained by them otherwise.

 

This is the way I see it. Your mileage may vary.