(OT) Robin Williams died today

[LastPommerFan]

As always, intelligently and compassionately stated. Good man.

 

Still: how do we know the bolded parts? Aren't most people who have suicidal thoughts able to overcome them? Not arguing, just asking.

 

I only know these from anecdotes and stories related through the media by people who study depression.

 

I know a woman extremely well who started planning her suicide during severe postpartum depression. She never overcame the thoughts on her own, but a loved one reached out to her, forced her to open up about it, convince her to get help, and medicine was able to bring her out of the depression.

 

It's one of those tough things to study, because we haven't figured out how to review thoughts during an autopsy. There is a lot of energy around the brain and it's malfunctions in the science world right now. Hopefully we're on the cusp of really understanding how it works/doesn't work. I would point to this. Overcoming self preservation has to be incredibly difficult. There's a reason we can't just hold our breath until we suffocate.

 

I'll fall back on my final recommendation from the previous post, judging people who take their own lives is completely understandable, but we'll be able to help the living far more as the stigma of mental illness begins to fade and we feel comfortable learning and talking about it with the people that we love.

[LTS]

Serious question: is it OK to judge Robin Williams and be disappointed in him for doing this? He left behind 3 children, who now have to go through life without a father, as well as his wife.

 

I apologize if this is insensitive or offensive -- just wondering whether anyone knows or has any thoughts about this.

 

I think it's natural to be disappointed because we look at this from a selfish point of view. We see him as leaving the world with one less talent, we see him leaving his kids, his wife, without the man they need. I think that's a natural viewpoint to take.

 

I think it's impossible to understand fully because those who commit suicide cannot come back to tell us just how bad it was. Those who get to the brink and are saved may not have been as bad off as those who are not saved. We can't say for certain. I think anyone who has felt the desire to commit suicide, attempted it and failed, etc. are in a better position to understand how deep the rabbit hole goes but it's not to say they can fully appreciate the actual depth because they never hit the bottom.

 

For someone like Robin Williams it's safe to say that he battled this for a long time. He was 63, and that's a lot of years of living with and battling against the illness. It's hard to picture anything from another person's viewpoint and truly understand the feeling that they feel. Each situation is bound to be different. Ultimately, it becomes too much to fend off and mentally and physically you can't take it anymore. The only option is to end it.

 

I suppose another way to try and personalize it would be to think of yourself in a situation where you have an incurable condition that results in death. You're going to die. This is not avoidable, no miracles, no hope, no anything. You might come to surrender to that thought and you'd say, I will live each day to its fullest and do all I can in my time remaining. Now, consider this additional fact, for the last 3 months of your life you will be completely debilitated, you won't be able to move, you won't really be able to interact with the world, you'll always feel exhausted and you're mind will continually be working against you. You'll be in physical pain that is so horrible you just continually scream out in agony. Do you want to live at this point? At the most severe points of depression most of what I described above can be experienced. Your mind has been working against you so hard that you have no energy left to fight it. You withdraw from everything and you just want to sleep. But sleep isn't enough because your mind torments you then as well. Your sleep is awful, you start the downward spiral. It's manufactured stress. Your digestive system works against you. Your eyes are too tired and light bothers you. You don't want any form of stimulation, noise, smells, they all begin to bug you. Your nervous system fails you and you become numb and in pain at the same time. Your heartbeat is irregular and none of your systems feel as though they are operating in harmony. Instead, your body feels like its pulling you apart.

 

At some point it's all too much.

 

We should be grateful for those who pull out of that. It can happen and it's a strange thing. It's like searching around a completely black room the size of Jupiter and by chance you find the exit. It's a pretty amazing feeling. But you never escape the darkness fully. It's there to pull you back and you have to continually battle it, one way or another. You have good days, weeks, years, and then boom, there it is again, consuming you. Everything in the world working against you, you doubt yourself and everything.

 

For what it's worth, this is my quick way of describing most of my life. I've been to the edge and was saved. it was a purely random act by someone (I do not even know who, to this day) who alerted someone else to my feelings and approached me about it. It wasn't what this person said to me that mattered. It was that someone had mentioned me to them, and for whatever reason that let me find the door. After that I used to think anyone who committed suicide was ultimately weak and I was very mad at them for doing it. I used to feel amazing about having overcome such darkness. I felt this way for a long time, over a decade. It was great. And then.. one day, trigger, boom, blackness approaching. I then realized that it never goes away. It's there, a part of you, forever and no matter how small it is, the fuel to help it grow will always be around. No matter how hard anyone tries to keep it from igniting, it can happen. So, I have a totally different view on it these days.

 

I see the death of Robin Williams as a great loss for the creativity of society. It's a great loss for his wife and kids and those lives he directly touched. At the same time, his life of battling is over, that constant reminder that the blackness is there and could come back is over. The stress of dealing with it is gone. He's no longer going to suffer. In some ways, that's the best news we can get. The outpouring of support is immense for him and I think people would like to believe that had Robin Williams been able to see that he would have regretted his decision. I think otherwise. I think Robin Williams would have felt even more pressure to continue his battle. He would have added to his depression the thoughts that he will let millions of people down if he stopped performing. If he stopped battling his inner demons. As far as we know, it was that ongoing support for his talents and the love of those around him that kept him here as long as it did. We should be grateful he battled as long as he could.

 

He will be missed, but his work will never disappear from existence and all those he touched will in some way pass along his lessons to others. His movies and work will continue to impact people for many more years and those people will look upon his work and maybe even learn more about him because of it and they will be touched and carry on those lessons.

[nfreeman]

Thanks LTS. Keep fighting the good fight brother.

[Hoss]

A lot of really great and surprisingly tame discussion in here. This is a discussion I really wanted to engage in more and provide my personal insight into, but I've been incredibly busy lately.

My brother was one of my very best friends and biggest influence. The strongest person I've ever known. And he hung himself.

 

Just passing by quickly here at work, but I'll add this: the questions are endless and the answers are few.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Tankalicious

[Sabres Fan in NS]

LTS,

 

Extremely thought provoking.

 

I also encourage you to keep fighting the good fight.

 

Just by reading your post I know that the world is a better place, because you are here and a member of this board. You were willing to share your own experiences regarding a very complicated and emotional subject. For that I thank you. I am grateful for the chance to read it.

 

Salam / Peace.

[Stoner]

LTS, thanks for sharing. That takes guts to open yourself up like that. It will help someone.

 

Dylan, I'm so sorry to learn about your brother. It's heartbreaking.

[Randall Flagg]

A lot of really great and surprisingly tame discussion in here. This is a discussion I really wanted to engage in more and provide my personal insight into, but I've been incredibly busy lately.

My brother was one of my very best friends and biggest influence. The strongest person I've ever known. And he hung himself.

 

Just passing by quickly here at work, but I'll add this: the questions are endless and the answers are few.

Oh my I am sorry to hear this. You probably don't remember, but not long after I met you on the bus ride to that sabres game this past spring, I was outside of shay/loughlen after dark with a girl who came to visit me, and we passed you on the steps. That girl is my biggest influence, and my strongest person I've ever met. I know I'm too young to be able to say this but my best friend there, is who I'm planning on spending the rest of my life with. Had I not managed to find a phone on two separate occasions, she wouldn't be with her family and friends today, and my biggest fear is there being a day where it becomes too much for her to believe the things I tell her.

 

The physical toll that LTS mentions is scary as well, the erratic heartbeat and appetite loss, and self-harming, it is so heart-wrenching to see such wonderful people have to endure such agony.

[dEnnis the Menace]

LTS and Tank,

Thanks for sharing your stories. this is what makes this place special

[K-9]

Anyone see what Rush Limbaugh had to say about Robin Williams' death? Or Lewis Black's retort?

 

complete ignorance in my opinion, and that's Rush but it is not excusable though.

 

I just checked it out. Rush basically says Williams killed himself because leftists are always angry at something. I stopped listening to that wind bag 21 years ago and I'm not surprised by his utter lack of insight and compassion. He's sub-human and I don't mean that as a dis to lower primates. Loved Black's retort.

[nfreeman]

I am so sorry Tank. God bless you and your family.

[wjag]

[/size]

 

I just checked it out. Rush basically says Williams killed himself because leftists are always angry at something. I stopped listening to that wind bag 21 years ago and I'm not surprised by his utter lack of insight and compassion. He's sub-human and I don't mean that as a dis to lower primates. Loved Black's retort.

 

How he has a voice to this day, astounds me. His own personal demons are out there and public knowledge. They seemingly don't alter his life view one iota.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I thank everyone for sharing their stories.

 

I am very sorry for all who have experienced tragic loss.

 

I lost my best friend in high school, over 30 years ago, and still think of him and what might have been. None of us realized how bad things were. There was no indication of anything being so terribly wrong in his life.

 

My wife has suffered from depression her whole life and, fortunately, so far the loving kindness we (me and our closest friends) have imparted has been enough to help see her through the darkest times, but it is a pretty constant struggle, especially considering the other chronic health issues she is dealing with making her everyday life not very enjoyable.

[Hoss]

 

I think it's impossible to understand fully because those who commit suicide cannot come back to tell us just how bad it was. Those who get to the brink and are saved may not have been as bad off as those who are not saved. We can't say for certain. I think anyone who has felt the desire to commit suicide, attempted it and failed, etc. are in a better position to understand how deep the rabbit hole goes but it's not to say they can fully appreciate the actual depth because they never hit the bottom.

 

Speaking as much as I can on this very good point: my brother committed suicune twice. He was successful both times, but there was no reviving him the second time.

The first time he was found unconscious and had no heartbeat or pulse. After a good amount of effort the doctors brought him back. His recollection of the event is absolute nothingness. In between consciousness he felt, heard, smelled, saw NOTHING. That's the oasis that the severely depressed are searching for, and I'm afraid that, no matter the efforts of those that loved him, he never considered any other option. It took about a year for the second attempt, but it happened nonetheless.

 

The hospital, friends, family and others could do nothing. My brother was extremely determined. He did what he wanted. He could freehand a map of the world with the blemishes and bumps without much effort (taught himself that one in prison). But maybe that was the issue. His determination said that he could never be stopped in what he wanted.

[Hoss]

I am so sorry Tank. God bless you and your family.

 

Thanks, Freeman.

 

LTS and Tank,

Thanks for sharing your stories. this is what makes this place special

 

I agree. It's a great platform and has a lot of really strong insights.

 

Dylan, I'm so sorry to learn about your brother. It's heartbreaking.

 

Certainly. I always thought the concept of thinking about a loss every single day was something Hollywood cooked up... It's not. Not a day goes by.

 

Oh my I am sorry to hear this. You probably don't remember, but not long after I met you on the bus ride to that sabres game this past spring, I was outside of shay/loughlen after dark with a girl who came to visit me, and we passed you on the steps. That girl is my biggest influence, and my strongest person I've ever met. I know I'm too young to be able to say this but my best friend there, is who I'm planning on spending the rest of my life with. Had I not managed to find a phone on two separate occasions, she wouldn't be with her family and friends today, and my biggest fear is there being a day where it becomes too much for her to believe the things I tell her.

 

The physical toll that LTS mentions is scary as well, the erratic heartbeat and appetite loss, and self-harming, it is so heart-wrenching to see such wonderful people have to endure such agony.

 

You can never make somebody believe that they have true value to you and others. The only thing you can do is show it and never stop. I feel like I do remember crossing paths with you at some point leaving Shay. My girl and I were always walking out of Shay heading to the library (or, more occasionally) heading out to town. I'm sorry that I didn't stop and share a longer moment with the both of you. I really hope everything works out.

[Randall Flagg]

 

You can never make somebody believe that they have true value to you and others. The only thing you can do is show it and never stop. I feel like I do remember crossing paths with you at some point leaving Shay. My girl and I were always walking out of Shay heading to the library (or, more occasionally) heading out to town. I'm sorry that I didn't stop and share a longer moment with the both of you. I really hope everything works out.

The bold is what is the hardest, yes, I should have phrased differently, she does not believe what I say but knows on some level I need her around to keep myself stable as well, as I have a history with this too. It's not a problem at all either, she had to leave pretty quickly, I just mentioned because maybe you had remembered and it tied into me sharing my experiences

 

The hospital, friends, family and others could do nothing. My brother was extremely determined. He did what he wanted. He could freehand a map of the world with the blemishes and bumps without much effort (taught himself that one in prison). But maybe that was the issue. His determination said that he could never be stopped in what he wanted.

I don't know the brain science behind it, but people who are geniuses seem to suffer at much greater rates than the average population, because my friend can do crazy things as well like multiply six digit numbers in her head, she has a photographic memory, and could probably become a master of any field she chose, but when her thoughts turn to herself that rationality that is present in every other facet of life seems to go away

[Hoss]

I don't know the brain science behind it, but people who are geniuses seem to suffer at much greater rates than the average population, because my friend can do crazy things as well like multiply six digit numbers in her head, she has a photographic memory, and could probably become a master of any field she chose, but when her thoughts turn to herself that rationality that is present in every other facet of life seems to go away

 

The brain is a difficult piece of technology. There's all these movies about accessing parts of the brain previously untraveled to... But what if we only have access to our current limits because it's all we can handle?

[Randall Flagg]

The brain is a difficult piece of technology. There's all these movies about accessing parts of the brain previously untraveled to... But what if we only have access to our current limits because it's all we can handle?

If that were the case then I would imagine that our brain would probably not evolve to become any more advanced, because it would not benefit survival, right? And we'd probably have to stop looking for aliens, at least those we'd expect to have consciousness akin to ours, because they would not have been able to advance to a space-faring level :P

[drnkirishone]

to thous that have shared their personal struggles or the struggles of others in this thread I just wanted to wish you all well and to thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I know it is not always easy to talk about such things and it is something I know i can not do as I am much to private and internal when it comes to talking about such things.

 

I have been saying for awhile that mental health issues are tragically underfunded and it needs to start getting the kind of funding that other "feel good" diseases get. instead we have kept it in the dark and in the corner where the sufferers can feel ashamed and lost. If there is one thing I am taking as a positive from this latest tragedy is this one seems to have rattled the masses and made them worried. If someone as seemingly happy and energetic as Robin Williams can suffer this badly what could that mean for the rest of them.

 

I just hope this current state of sharing and being open about depression is not just another flash in the pan. I hope we as a society will use this as a spring board to make some real change in health care and fund the research to help understand and treat the people that are in need of our help.

[deluca67]

Serious question: is it OK to judge Robin Williams and be disappointed in him for doing this? He left behind 3 children, who now have to go through life without a father, as well as his wife.

 

I apologize if this is insensitive or offensive -- just wondering whether anyone knows or has any thoughts about this.

I love the music Kurt Cobain made, I hate Kurt Cobain because of all the great music he cheated me out of. It's perfectly natural to be angry or judge. Performers like Cobain or Robin Williams live theirs lives trying to reach as many people as they can, make that connection that they ride to great heights of success. If you are one of those people they reach and touch through their art it is a natural reaction to feel frustration and anger when they take it away by their own hand.

[dudacek]

Conversation about mental health should not be confined to personal journals and doctors chairs.

By posting here you are helping others and hopefully your selves as well.

Thank you.

[LTS]

Speaking as much as I can on this very good point: my brother committed suicune twice. He was successful both times, but there was no reviving him the second time.

The first time he was found unconscious and had no heartbeat or pulse. After a good amount of effort the doctors brought him back. His recollection of the event is absolute nothingness. In between consciousness he felt, heard, smelled, saw NOTHING. That's the oasis that the severely depressed are searching for, and I'm afraid that, no matter the efforts of those that loved him, he never considered any other option. It took about a year for the second attempt, but it happened nonetheless.

 

The hospital, friends, family and others could do nothing. My brother was extremely determined. He did what he wanted. He could freehand a map of the world with the blemishes and bumps without much effort (taught himself that one in prison). But maybe that was the issue. His determination said that he could never be stopped in what he wanted.

 

Truly. Becoming desensitized to the world around you. Being free from your own mind. Thank you for sharing that.

 

The bold is what is the hardest, yes, I should have phrased differently, she does not believe what I say but knows on some level I need her around to keep myself stable as well, as I have a history with this too. It's not a problem at all either, she had to leave pretty quickly, I just mentioned because maybe you had remembered and it tied into me sharing my experiences

 

I don't know the brain science behind it, but people who are geniuses seem to suffer at much greater rates than the average population, because my friend can do crazy things as well like multiply six digit numbers in her head, she has a photographic memory, and could probably become a master of any field she chose, but when her thoughts turn to herself that rationality that is present in every other facet of life seems to go away

 

To that end I think it has a lot to do with anyone who sees the world so dramatically different. We are social creatures and we seek to be accepted and part of the group. For those who see things differently it's harder to be accepted. Many times my way of expressing thoughts turn people away. The things I see are not seen by others. The way I approach certain scenarios is different and I notice that people struggle to understand that.

 

I'm not sure rationality goes away. It's just trumped, extremely hard, by the blackness. When I'm not feeling well I know I am being ridiculous. You tell yourself there's no reason to feel like this. You tell yourself that there are happy things. You tell yourself that your family matters, that your friends matter. The problem is that it doesn't do anything for you. It doesn't register. They are like the words of some unknown scientist performing an observation on my life and jotting them down in his notebook. They are true, but have no meaning to me. There's no connection to it at all.

 

We have all seen some act of kindness that has filled us with great feelings. Let's use the puppy scenario (who doesn't love puppies?). During those bad periods you look at that puppy and you say, "Damn he's cute. I should probably smile about it. I should laugh a little bit at his antics. I should pet him. Look at him, he's all full of life and happiness." Then you say, "So I smiled, I laughed, I pet him. I'm not happy. I'm nothing. What the hell is wrong with me? Why am I like this? Why can't I enjoy the puppy as much as everyone else? Why is life so mean to me? Why can't I just enjoy this one simple thing?" Usually about there the stress begins, the issues begin, your mind begins racing at about a million irrational thoughts per second and it tires itself out. I'll begin yawning.. all I want to do is sleep. I want to sleep and hope that sleep brings more comfort.

 

I'm thankful that these days those bad periods happen extremely infrequently. They have still shaped who I am. I speak about them because I accept them and I let myself know they are real. It's somewhat therapeutic to be certain. I've never been medicated because I never wanted to lose the parts of my mind that make me who I am. I've read this about a lot of others as well. I've read about those who have and then stopped and how dead the world feels. I don't want that. On good days being alive to the world is something fantastic and I would hate to lose that. I read the "study" a few months ago about the mass shooting and the ties that they all supposedly had to these drugs. I don't want that. I don't want to feel like the world isn't real, to have some kind of filter put in place that reduces its importance to me. I've never had thoughts about wanting to harm others. I've never blamed them for my lot in life. I don't know if those who commit mass shootings had those thoughts prior to medication. I'm just convinced that nature made me this way and so I can use natural means to combat it.

 

One last thing.. I mentioned how the pressure to perform might actually harm Robin Williams. Right after posting that I came across this article. Take it for what it's worth. - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/celebritynews/11030100/Robin-Williams-friend-reveals-actor-resented-having-to-do-new-Mrs-Doubtfire.html

[LaLaLaFontaine]

Rest in Peace Robin Williams.

 

You were a great actor. Some of your roles really touched me.

[TrueBlueGED]

to thous that have shared their personal struggles or the struggles of others in this thread I just wanted to wish you all well and to thank you for sharing your experiences with us. I know it is not always easy to talk about such things and it is something I know i can not do as I am much to private and internal when it comes to talking about such things.

 

I have been saying for awhile that mental health issues are tragically underfunded and it needs to start getting the kind of funding that other "feel good" diseases get. instead we have kept it in the dark and in the corner where the sufferers can feel ashamed and lost. If there is one thing I am taking as a positive from this latest tragedy is this one seems to have rattled the masses and made them worried. If someone as seemingly happy and energetic as Robin Williams can suffer this badly what could that mean for the rest of them.

 

I just hope this current state of sharing and being open about depression is not just another flash in the pan. I hope we as a society will use this as a spring board to make some real change in health care and fund the research to help understand and treat the people that are in need of our help.

 

Your middle paragraph is spot on. Mental illness is just so easy to dismiss as weakness or whatever (and it often times is...even by those suffering) that it just encourages silence rather than action. Without going through it yourself, or at the very least having somebody close to you go through it, it's hard to truly understand what it's like. You can't "get it" through logical or rational thought, which too many try to do. My father has had a life long struggle with depression, sometimes reaching disabling levels, and too many times have I heard he's just gaming the system for money because it's not a real disability.

 

I really hope the negative stigma permanently changes due to Robin Williams passing, but I fear it will be business as usual before too long.

[HopefulFuture]

Serious question: is it OK to judge Robin Williams and be disappointed in him for doing this? He left behind 3 children, who now have to go through life without a father, as well as his wife.

 

I apologize if this is insensitive or offensive -- just wondering whether anyone knows or has any thoughts about this.

 

I don't believe your judging him or his actions. I believe you truly care about the situation and are voicing an emotion, a concern if you will, of the situation. Surely this isn't the first time you've heard of some one taking their own life while having children, and, I'd like to believe nfreeman, that you give some emotion of yourself by expressing your concern for his loved ones. That is compassion, it shows a part or portion of your character as a human being in my opinion. And I for one, am more than content to see it, because to me in any event, compassion is one of the most important aspects of a human being attempting to live a life of good and purposeful intentions.

[Hoss]

 

I love the music Kurt Cobain made, I hate Kurt Cobain because of all the great music he cheated me out of. It's perfectly natural to be angry or judge. Performers like Cobain or Robin Williams live theirs lives trying to reach as many people as they can, make that connection that they ride to great heights of success. If you are one of those people they reach and touch through their art it is a natural reaction to feel frustration and anger when they take it away by their own hand.

 

Terribly selfish way to view it.