Serious question now that the offseason dust has settled: would you rather go into the 3rd-last game of next season with ...

[TrueBlueGED]

Good question.

 

I would trade Stafford at the deadline, and I don't care what kind of season he has. I'm not giving him an extension -- I know how that story plays out.

 

I'm open to giving Stewart an extension if he's crushing it this year. If there is no extension in place at the deadline, though, I would trade him too.

 

I'm skeptical as to the deadline value of Enroth, Neuvirth, Mitchell and Meszaros. If any of them would return a 2nd-rounder, though -- off they go.

 

Bottom line is that I'm fine with trading any of these guys at the deadline if they return good assets -- but not if the Sabres are on the bubble and the point of the trade is to weaken the team in order to improve their draft position.

 

With respect, I feel like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand, you say you're tired of waiting and your heart burns for playoff hockey, even if it's as the 8 seed. On the other hand, you say you're willing to hurt the team's playoff push for 2nd round picks. If you're willing to sacrifice a playoff push for mediocre futures, then I don't see why you aren't willing to endure one more awful season for a chance at a generational or elite talent.

 

Personally, I would prefer to be in 28th than 9th in the conference. But if we're in 9th,we should make the push. Finishing 8th appeals to me far more than finishing 9th and have three extra second round picks. And given your stance on the value of winning and your lust for playoff hockey, I'm shocked you'd rather have the picks.

[biodork]

Though I don't agree w/ the bolded, I get it. But WHY you'd prefer to be on the cusp w/ 3 to go rather than entrenched at the bottom this year escapes me.

 

Well, maybe my own biased reading of the poll question; I'd be thrilled if this year's team turns out to be far better than we imagined and makes a legitimate push, however unlikely that is. Last year truly stunk not giving a d@mn whether they were playing or not, and the idea of another season of that is nauseating. I'll also admit that since I don't closely follow the minors / prospects / draft-eligible players I'm reluctant to flush another season down the toilet over the idea of some child hockey savior who might be a complete bust (or we might not even get him, in spite of a terrible season). I'd almost rather the group we already have (current and soon-to-be NHLers) grows into an elite team than expect McDavid or Eichel to be the answer to all our problems. But again, I'm admitting that I haven't followed them so I'm less inclined to buy into the hype.

[Taro T]

 

 

All 2 of those years?

 

I'll also point out that the Sabres' history over the past 4 years might've been quite different if the Sabres had managed to hold a 2-goal lead at home vs Philly in game 6 in 2011.

 

 

 

About the same odds as there are of being in the position to make the playoffs with 3 games to go -- i.e. not great but not negligible either.

 

If the Sabres are in that position with 3 games to go -- then, yes, it would have been nice for TM to have added another piece at the deadline, but even so, it will have been the guys in the room -- players and coaches -- that got them there. Those guys will have bought in 100% at that point, and we'll have seen a lot of improvement from a lot of different guys.

 

 

 

I think making the playoffs this year would be a huge boost for this franchise, and, given the amount of youth on the team and in the system I would expect their improvement to continue -- not plateau as a bubble team.

 

 

 

Definitely. We are going to see a number of teams tanking hard -- which is another reason why I'm skeptical that the Sabres will end up in last place this year.

To the bolded, perhaps, but I just see too much youth that's not quite old enough/mature enough to expect anything but a bubble team next year barring anything but a huge season this year that says we've all underestimated these guys.

 

W/ that as my basis, winning the last 3 to sneak in doesn't seem plausible. The Canes, sure. But the Jackets & Pens won't go quietly. And they likely learn nothing from falling just short.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Taro T

[sicknfla]

I am happy either way. If we end up at the bottom we may get that star player we are all hoping for. If we are a playoff team (or borderline) then i have confidence in GMTM to use the assets we have accumulated and do what is needed to make us a top team. There is a plan B that doesn't include McDavid or Eichel. Either way I think we are a very happy fan base within 2-3 years.

[nfreeman]

With respect, I feel like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. On the one hand, you say you're tired of waiting and your heart burns for playoff hockey, even if it's as the 8 seed. On the other hand, you say you're willing to hurt the team's playoff push for 2nd round picks. If you're willing to sacrifice a playoff push for mediocre futures, then I don't see why you aren't willing to endure one more awful season for a chance at a generational or elite talent.

 

Personally, I would prefer to be in 28th than 9th in the conference. But if we're in 9th,we should make the push. Finishing 8th appeals to me far more than finishing 9th and have three extra second round picks. And given your stance on the value of winning and your lust for playoff hockey, I'm shocked you'd rather have the picks.

 

Probably true. Still, though, 2nd-round picks are real assets. Keeping guys whom TM does not intend to re-sign instead of swapping them for real assets -- especially when paired with the notion of the door swinging the other way, i.e. the Sabres trading picks/prospects for rental players -- just strikes me as a loser move.

 

I think there is a non-negligible chance that TN and Trots can take the kids and the vets under contract and get them onto the bubble. If that happens, I don't think the team would be crippled by losing Stafford and Stewart at the deadline.

 

Is there a good likelihood that this results in them ending up #10 in the conference and picking #10 overall? Yes indeedly. But there's also a reasonable chance that they push their way in, give us all some thrills and then go into the offseason with the #5 pick overall from the Islanders, their own pick at #14, the #22 from STL, a ton of good prospects, a ton of cap space and a greatly improved desirable-location-factor in the NHL generally.

 

I'd rather have that scenario than the #3 overall.

 

To be clear: would I rather have McDavid? Yes. But you have to assume that the Sabres are not going to win the lottery -- and that someone else will, and that the Sabres will accordingly end up picking one slot below their final-standings slot.

[Taro T]

 

 

Well, maybe my own biased reading of the poll question; I'd be thrilled if this year's team turns out to be far better than we imagined and makes a legitimate push, however unlikely that is. Last year truly stunk not giving a d@mn whether they were playing or not, and the idea of another season of that is nauseating. I'll also admit that since I don't closely follow the minors / prospects / draft-eligible players I'm reluctant to flush another season down the toilet over the idea of some child hockey savior who might be a complete bust (or we might not even get him, in spite of a terrible season). I'd almost rather the group we already have (current and soon-to-be NHLers) grows into an elite team than expect McDavid or Eichel to be the answer to all our problems. But again, I'm admitting that I haven't followed them so I'm less inclined to buy into the hype.

Fair enough.

 

But for me, even though I expect them to be bad, I'm looking forward to watching the kids develop and looking forward to how TN shapes them.

 

That 1st TN team was very entertaining though they were bad. (Only 7th from the bottom bad, but still bad. Especially on the road. By the end of that year, teams HATED having to play at the Aud.) This team doesn't have a Hasek, so this team shouldn't steal as many as that one did - and will probably have a few stolen.

 

I will watch regardless - this isn't RR's team, the ONLY ONE EVER, that I really truly didn't care to watch. But this year there's a big prize at the bottom of the cereal box and 'm hoping the Sabres and Isles race through it w/ the Isles ripping it wiiiiiidddde open, but w/ the Sabres getting there 2nd and the Blues fining some way however improbable to at least get there 14th. Last year, there was just a coupon for more cereal (relatively speaking).

[LastPommerFan]

It strikes me that the consensus is that under no circumstances should we be attempting to make the team short term better (Trade picks/prospects for current talent) on 3/2/2015.

 

There is also a consensus that any players that can return pick/prospect value that are not in the long term plans should be traded prior to 3/2/2015.

 

I hate to break it to the board, but we have consensus to take all the legal actions of a tank. Sell short term assets for futures. Suffer the consequences. This is what tanking is all about in the NHL.

 

Put it this way:

 

The Rangers will likely finish in the top 10 next season. When this happens they will have gone from 2011 through 2015 with exactly TWO picks in the top 50, none better than 15th. Their cupboard will be bare. They will have approximately 3-4 years to win the cup before they fall back to mediocrity. This is win mode.

 

We will likely finish with two draft picks between 5-15 next season, plus a pick in the 20-25 range plus 2 picks in the first half of Round 2. In the time that the Rags picked two players in the top 50, we will have chosen 17 in the top 50 (an amazing 8 in the top 16). One player short of an ENTIRE SKATER ROSTER. If we can manage to turn some combination of Meszaros/Stafford/Stewart/Mitchel into another first round pick, we will have that 18. This is tank mode.

[That Aud Smell]

you have to assume that the Sabres are not going to win the lottery -- and that someone else will, and that the Sabres will accordingly end up picking one slot below their final-standings slot.

which is why i will not be saddened if they finish DFL and are thereby assured of eichel. that's a helluva consolation prize.

[ddaryl]

the tank is still on. This team would get destroyed in the playoffs so why bother pretending.

 

More interested in what happens 2-3 years from ow regarding playoff runs

Edited August 7, 2014 by ddaryl

[Sabres Fan in NS]

As always, give me a chance at the playoffs each and every time. You can't win the cup if you are not playing for it.

 

That said, I do not want some crazy push to try to make the playoffs come the trade deadline.

 

The odds of the Sabres landing either of the big two in the next draft are not very good.

 

I trust Murray to build a very good team without either of them.

[nfreeman]

Just 'cause we're discussing it -- last 6 games of the regular season:

 

Leafs at Sabres

Blackhawks at Sabres

Sabres at Islanders (no 3-point game here, please!)

Hurricanes at Sabres

Sabres at Blue Jackets

Penguins at Sabres

 

Those games start April 1 and end April 11.

 

If the playoffs start on April 14, a 6-game first-round series would last until about April 26.

 

Who here doesn't want 26 days of a thrilling, intense Sabres roller coaster?

 

Who doesn't want Enroth to steal game 1 in Boston with 48 saves and have the Sabres come home on April 18, tied 1-1, with a chance to make the FNC explode?

 

Who doesn't have a heart beating in his chest?

[LGR4GM]

Just 'cause we're discussing it -- last 6 games of the regular season:

 

Leafs at Sabres

Blackhawks at Sabres

Sabres at Islanders (no 3-point game here, please!)

Hurricanes at Sabres

Sabres at Blue Jackets

Penguins at Sabres

 

Those games start April 1 and end April 11.

 

If the playoffs start on April 14, a 6-game first-round series would last until about April 26.

 

Who here doesn't want 26 days of a thrilling, intense Sabres roller coaster?

 

Who doesn't want Enroth to steal game 1 in Boston with 48 saves and have the Sabres come home on April 18, tied 1-1, with a chance to make the FNC explode?

 

Who doesn't have a heart beating in his chest?

Well if my choice is that or drafting #2 overall, I want #2 overall. Sorry but I have no desire to watch a mediocre team get boned in the playoffs. I would rather watch a team full of young talent learn what it takes to compete in the playoffs and that isn't what would happen next year. I want no part of the Sabres being bounced in the first round.

Edited August 7, 2014 by LGR4GM

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just 'cause we're discussing it -- last 6 games of the regular season:

 

Leafs at Sabres

Blackhawks at Sabres

Sabres at Islanders (no 3-point game here, please!)

Hurricanes at Sabres

Sabres at Blue Jackets

Penguins at Sabres

 

Those games start April 1 and end April 11.

 

If the playoffs start on April 14, a 6-game first-round series would last until about April 26.

 

Who here doesn't want 26 days of a thrilling, intense Sabres roller coaster?

 

Who doesn't want Enroth to steal game 1 in Boston with 48 saves and have the Sabres come home on April 18, tied 1-1, with a chance to make the FNC explode?

 

Who doesn't have a heart beating in his chest?

 

It seems that the younger fans would rather have the chance at #1, or #2, in the 2015 draft.

 

Older guys / gals (sorry, Bio ... I know you are young), like us, want the playoff excitement.

 

Just an observation and maybe I'm way off.

[biodork]

It seems that the younger fans would rather have the chance at #1, or #2, in the 2015 draft.

 

Older guys / gals (sorry, Bio ... I know you are young), like us, want the playoff excitement.

 

Just an observation and maybe I'm way off.

 

:P no worries

[nfreeman]

Well if my choice is that or drafting #2 overall, I want #2 overall. Sorry but I have no desire to watch a mediocre team get boned in the playoffs. I would rather watch a team full of young talent learn what it takes to compete in the playoffs and that isn't what would happen next year. I want no part of the Sabres being bounced in the first round.

 

Well, the poll question was the 2nd-worst record and therefore, most likely, the #3 overall draft pick.

[That Aud Smell]

It seems that the younger fans would rather have the chance at #1, or #2, in the 2015 draft.

 

Older guys / gals (sorry, Bio ... I know you are young), like us, want the playoff excitement.

 

Just an observation and maybe I'm way off.

FWIW, I'm in the older cohort here, and I am more hoping for a low finish and high pick in 2015.

[LGR4GM]

Well, the poll question was the 2nd-worst record and therefore, most likely, the #3 overall draft pick.

Still vote that over #8/playoff bubble team.

[TrueBlueGED]

Probably true. Still, though, 2nd-round picks are real assets. Keeping guys whom TM does not intend to re-sign instead of swapping them for real assets -- especially when paired with the notion of the door swinging the other way, i.e. the Sabres trading picks/prospects for rental players -- just strikes me as a loser move.

 

I think there is a non-negligible chance that TN and Trots can take the kids and the vets under contract and get them onto the bubble. If that happens, I don't think the team would be crippled by losing Stafford and Stewart at the deadline.

 

Is there a good likelihood that this results in them ending up #10 in the conference and picking #10 overall? Yes indeedly. But there's also a reasonable chance that they push their way in, give us all some thrills and then go into the offseason with the #5 pick overall from the Islanders, their own pick at #14, the #22 from STL, a ton of good prospects, a ton of cap space and a greatly improved desirable-location-factor in the NHL generally.

 

I'd rather have that scenario than the #3 overall.

 

To be clear: would I rather have McDavid? Yes. But you have to assume that the Sabres are not going to win the lottery -- and that someone else will, and that the Sabres will accordingly end up picking one slot below their final-standings slot.

 

I don't envision any reasonable scenario where the Sabres are sitting as a bubble team and Stewart/Stewart Stafford not being significant contributors. If they're sitting in the 35-40 point range, trading them all but guarantees we miss the playoffs. You don't subtract 70 points from a bubble team without consequence. Given your last post, you'd really give up that emotional playoff train for a couple of 2nds?

 

 

Still vote that over #8/playoff bubble team.

 

Agreed. My order of preference is #3 > #8 > #10 with a few more 2nds for sold assets.

 

It seems that the younger fans would rather have the chance at #1, or #2, in the 2015 draft.

 

Older guys / gals (sorry, Bio ... I know you are young), like us, want the playoff excitement.

 

Just an observation and maybe I'm way off.

 

Obviously age isn't everything, but I do think it plays a role in this.

[LGR4GM]

Agreed. My order of preference is #3 > #8 > #10 with a few more 2nds for sold assets.

#1, #2, #3

[nfreeman]

I don't envision any reasonable scenario where the Sabres are sitting as a bubble team and Stewart/Stewart Stafford not being significant contributors. If they're sitting in the 35-40 point range, trading them all but guarantees we miss the playoffs. You don't subtract 70 points from a bubble team without consequence. Given your last post, you'd really give up that emotional playoff train for a couple of 2nds?

 

 

Obviously age isn't everything, but I do think it plays a role in this.

 

Well, of course I wouldn't give up the thrill ride for a couple of 2nds, but I don't necessarily agree with your assumption that trading those 2 guys would eliminate them. Still, your position is persuasive and more likely than not. Perhaps I'll reconsider on March 2 and if I do I will issue a full retraction.

 

And I agree that age plays a role.

[Claude_Verret]

It seems that the younger fans would rather have the chance at #1, or #2, in the 2015 draft.

 

Older guys / gals (sorry, Bio ... I know you are young), like us, want the playoff excitement.

 

Just an observation and maybe I'm way off.

 

I just turned 43 and I'm for the tank all the way. I would think older fans who have watched the Sabres largely be an insignificant post season team through 40 plus seasons would want to take a legit shot at being an elite team year in and year out.

 

A 2% shot at McEichel and 75% chance at top five overall in a deep draft >>>>>>>>> a doomed playoff run and 0% chance at the Cup all day long.

[LGR4GM]

Well, of course I wouldn't give up the thrill ride for a couple of 2nds, but I don't necessarily agree with your assumption that trading those 2 guys would eliminate them. Still, your position is persuasive and more likely than not. Perhaps I'll reconsider on March 2 and if I do I will issue a full retraction.

 

And I agree that age plays a role.

I think it is much more likely for the NYI to be a bubble team this season than it is for the Sabres. Buffalo is a bottom 5 team all day simply because we have a very young defense and added almost 0 scoring to the team.

[darksabre]

All 2 of those years?

 

I'll also point out that the Sabres' history over the past 4 years might've been quite different if the Sabres had managed to hold a 2-goal lead at home vs Philly in game 6 in 2011.

 

 

Do you want to go back to those years? Because anything other than rooting for the tank is rooting for a return to the post-07 malaise. I never want to feel the way I did during those years ever again. Wanting to believe but knowing deep down there was no chance of those teams going anywhere substantial. Even the idea of making the playoffs during that period seems laughable. The Sabres were the worst kind of bad then. Middling.

 

Deep playoff runs or bust. I don't want anything in between. And you shouldn't either.

[nfreeman]

Do you want to go back to those years? Because anything other than rooting for the tank is rooting for a return to the post-07 malaise. I never want to feel the way I did during those years ever again. Wanting to believe but knowing deep down there was no chance of those teams going anywhere substantial. Even the idea of making the playoffs during that period seems laughable. The Sabres were the worst kind of bad then. Middling.

 

Deep playoff runs or bust. I don't want anything in between. And you shouldn't either.

 

Those teams didn't have a talent deficiency -- they had a heart deficiency. It's still early, but I don't think TM or TN will be associated with a heart-deficient team. And they don't necessarily need McDavid or Eichel to have sufficient talent, especially if the Isles cooperate.

[darksabre]

 

 

Those teams didn't have a talent deficiency -- they had a heart deficiency. It's still early, but I don't think TM or TN will be associated with a heart-deficient team. And they don't necessarily need McDavid or Eichel to have sufficient talent, especially if the Isles cooperate.

 

I don't agree with either of your points here.

 

Those teams absolutely lacked talent. Talented players have heart built in. There's a reason why so many of those core players haven't really done anything amazing anywhere else. They had some skills, but they weren't as talented as we believed. Darcy scammed us.

 

Additionally, we didn't suffer since then just so we could come away with just Sam Reinhart. I like the kid, but I want to increase our odds by adding one more big piece. There's no point in turning back now. I want a Stanley Cup goddammit!