Tim Murray and the Emphasis on Bigger Players

[LGR4GM]

Not sure if this will have traction but it's summer and we are all bored.

 

If you think about the difference btw Regier and Murray I would say the most obvious one is player build. Zack Kassian was a large player that Regier thought would help us. Most of his other forwards were smaller than that and although not necessarily small, they weren't overly big. More to the point, they didn't play big. Pominville, who I love, was a good player but he wasn't a tank. Vanek, good size, not a tank. Kassian was supposed to be that.

 

Now look at Murray and his 6months in office. He has added and readded and then added some more bulk to the forward group. He hasn't brought in anyone under 6" with the exception of Gionta and most of the guys are 190lbs plus. Carrier, Fashing, Deslauriers, hell it is the reason we talked so much about Draisaitl (well one of them) has just added this critical mass of larger players to the top end of our prospect pool.

 

So looking at what has been done so far and what DR did for years in regard to bulky guys who can skate what are people's feelings on how GMTM is conducting this specific part of things. Do you think he would pass on smaller players with more skill for larger players? Is he building the right way IMPO. The contrast between the Darcy type of player and the Murray type seems to be rather apparent to me.

[dudacek]

I think Murray has shown he is not solely focused on size, just that he sees it a a necessary ingredient that the organization lacked.

Had Draisaitl been the pick over Reinhart, I may have been concerned about an over emphasis, but he wasn't and I'm not.

Darcy thought you could win without size. Tim disagrees and will likely continue to add size whenever there is an opportunity.

But I think overall, you will find ZFG over individual traits or lack thereof as long as a player can play.

[Hoss]

There was such a lack of size/players that can use it that it may seem like he's overemphasizing size. I expect it to even out soon where he will be more willing to go with the small skill players.

 

You can win a cup with a whole team of big guys if there is a decent amount of skill (LA) or have a good group of large players that supplement the smaller skill guys (BOS). I don't really see an example recently of a team that was made up almost solely of small players that won.

 

I think the best route is to start big and then you can bring in any size later as long as the skill is there.

[Johnny DangerFace]

I do think though that Darcy realized (waaaaaay too late) the importance of size with his last two drafts. And man were those two solid drafts

[Weave]

It seems to me that most of the guys TM has brought in are about what I'd think is average NHL size, 6'ish, 200lbs'ish. I don't think he's emphasizing size as much as we are seeing how different NHL average is from what our team used to be.

[TrueBlueGED]

It seems to me that most of the guys TM has brought in are about what I'd think is average NHL size, 6'ish, 200lbs'ish. I don't think he's emphasizing size as much as we are seeing how different NHL average is from what our team used to be.

 

Agreed. I think icing a big team is overrated anyway, so long as you're not icing a team of smurfs.

[Samson's Flow]

It seems to me that most of the guys TM has brought in are about what I'd think is average NHL size, 6'ish, 200lbs'ish. I don't think he's emphasizing size as much as we are seeing how different NHL average is from what our team used to be.

Agreed, I think TM recognizes that average NHL size gives a player a lot more of a chance to showcase their talent than having to overcome being undersized. All of these ~6' 200lbs players seem to me to be lottery tickets on the kid's talent coming together.

 

In other words, it takes a significant elite level talent to overcome being smaller than everyone else around you. I can think of a handful of small players that had good NHL careers and mostly all of them had elite talent. Having the prototypical NHL body type at least gives a chance to be able to use your talents.

[Weave]

Agreed, I think TM recognizes that average NHL size gives a player a lot more of a chance to showcase their talent than having to overcome being undersized. All of these ~6' 200lbs players seem to me to be lottery tickets on the kid's talent coming together.

 

In other words, it takes a significant elite level talent to overcome being smaller than everyone else around you. I can think of a handful of small players that had good NHL careers and mostly all of them had elite talent. Having the prototypical NHL body type at least gives a chance to be able to use your talents.

 

Soooo...... Gerbe? :devil:

[JJFIVEOH]

There has to be some kind of balance. If a small team wins the Cup next year teams might start switching to small players. Rules changes can even affect how a team builds its roster. If you stock too many big players and speed becomes the latest trend, you're screwed. And vice versa. It's all about balance. Murray seems to be going large (at least bigger than the Sabres have been) but I don't think his roster is done yet. I want to see what he plans to do as far as forwards after the 2015 draft to say that he is leaning too far either way on the spectrum.

Edited July 15, 2014 by JJFIVEOH

[Hoss]

I do think though that Darcy realized (waaaaaay too late) the importance of size with his last two drafts. And man were those two solid drafts

 

It's like pinching off the runs... You realized the issue and got some of the waste into the toilet, but you still have to change your underwear. Unless you want to keep stinking.

[PromoTheRobot]

I think Murray has shown he is not solely focused on size, just that he sees it a a necessary ingredient that the organization lacked.

Had Draisaitl been the pick over Reinhart, I may have been concerned about an over emphasis, but he wasn't and I'm not.

Darcy thought you could win without size. Tim disagrees and will likely continue to add size whenever there is an opportunity.

But I think overall, you will find ZFG over individual traits or lack thereof as long as a player can play.

Fashion changes and so does what wins in the NHL. Darcy built a team around speed and finesse out of the lockout in '05 (I think) and was the toast of the NHL. So Murray is going with size and strength but we are coming to the party a bit late. We're good until someone builds a team of gazelles and wins a cup.

Edited July 15, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[JJFIVEOH]

Fashion changes and so does what wins in the NHL. Darcy built a team around speed and finesse out of the lockout in '05 (I think) and was the toast of the NHL. So Murray is going with size and strength but we are coming the party a bit late. Were good until someone build a team of gazelles and wins a cup.

 

Didn't I just say that? :P

[LastPommerFan]

Fashion changes and so does what wins in the NHL. Darcy built a team around speed and finesse out of the lockout in '05 (I think) and was the toast of the NHL. So Murray is going with size and strength but we are coming the party a bit late. Were good until someone build a team of gazelles and wins a cup.

 

I'm not sure about gazelles, but their cousins the deer don't fare so well on ice:

 

[respk]

Fashion changes and so does what wins in the NHL. Darcy built a team around speed and finesse out of the lockout in '05 (I think) and was the toast of the NHL. So Murray is going with size and strength but we are coming to the party a bit late. We're good until someone builds a team of gazelles and wins a cup.

 

I think what Murray actually said was that he was building a team that is big, fast and skilled. Not one or two faceted as we have seen in the past but all three.

[X. Benedict]

Big - Fast - Skilled

 

Usually you only get to chose 2 of the three.

[Taro T]

Big - Fast - Skilled

 

Usually you only get to chose 2 of the three.

When you're Garth, you usually only get 1 of 3. ;)

[LastPommerFan]

Big - Fast - Skilled

 

Usually you only get to chose 2 of the three.

 

GMTM gives zero f#$%s about your probabilities and choices.

[X. Benedict]

GMTM gives zero f#$%s about your probabilities and choices.

 

We hug. Murray and I. He loves what I say.

[LastPommerFan]

We hug. Murray and I. He loves what I say.

 

He's a super awkward hugger, isn't he?

[X. Benedict]

He's a super awkward hugger, isn't he?

Sorta. He's kinda clammy. Kind of how I imagine hugging Commander Pike from the original Star Trek would be like.

[Taro T]

 

Sorta. He's kinda clammy. Kind of how I imagine hugging Commander Pike from the original Star Trek would be like.

:huh: Crippled chick that turned green seemed to like it.

[MattPie]

:huh: Crippled chick that turned green seemed to like it.

 

Don't you talk about Terri Garr that way!

[X. Benedict]

Roll, roll, roll in zee hay.

[drnkirishone]

this thread has taken another turn for the bizarre.................. and i like it.