The "meddling" Kim Pegula???

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

True enough, but where are the ambitious young guns looking to cut their teeth in a smaller market before moving on to bigger ponds?

 

 

Des Moines......

 

The football side is much better. Even if he can be a d-bag, Graham is a smart guy with connections and is sometimes willing to dig. Gaughn is ok. Sully is actually a solid columnist and a bright guy. Bucky is a B+ in my opinion, and better than you get in a lot of places.

 

Nobody wants to dig for the REAL stuff. People are too busy playing on Twitter, or don't want to rock the boat. I mean, I know how much I love digging for truth....and it's not my job when it comes to sports. Sadly I do it for hobby. Where is the passion from some of these guys? I agree.....

[K-9]

I just don't want non-hockey people making hockey decisions. It's such a no-brainer, I'm always a bit stunned when I get disagreement. And I'm the contrarian!

 

What "hockey" decisions do you think have been made by non-hockey people? It's a bit of a stretch to suggest that because an owner sits in on meetings with his GM, scouts, etc. that he is making hockey decisions when all he's doing is keeping abreast of what's happening and perhaps inquiring as to what may be needed financially or organizationally to achieve hockey related goals. The exception to the rule is an owner that DOESN'T sit in on meetings with his various staffs, regardless of sport. It's unheard of.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Stoner]

Everything was fine here until Kim showed up.

 

Are you seriously pretending that you haven't questioned TP's financial commitment to the team?

Yes. At the very least I'd like to see the context of the comment so I can defend myself.

 

[...]

Being a happily married man, I fail to see the issue with Kim sitting in on meetings, even in place of Terry.

 

Indeed, given the history of this ownership, and the narratives that emerge around it (based on very little inside info), I actually welcome Kim's oversight.

 

Any man married to an intelligent woman, who is also a mother, simply can not disagree: a smart mama bear will out-ruthless most daddy bears any day.

[Stoner]

If GMTM can't convince Kim and Terry that his way is the best way, I want a different GM.

 

Variation on a theme. Kim and Terry have every right to be involved — up until they exercise their right to actually make a decision.

 

You (not you, Glass) can't have it both ways. Once you invite and support the owners' direct participation in decisions, you have to live with the possibility they're going to overrule the hockey people.

 

"Tim, I hear ya. But I fracked many a well and I know it's not the size of your drill bit, it's how hard you whack your fracker. It's only year 3, we're not trading any of our prized prospects to try and win it all right now. Sorry. Cliff, pass me those Triscuits."

 

It's what you wanted, fans. You'll have to live with that day if it comes.

[MattPie]

Variation on a theme. Kim and Terry have every right to be involved — up until they exercise their right to actually make a decision.

 

You (not you, Glass) can't have it both ways. Once you invite and support the owners' direct participation in decisions, you have to live with the possibility they're going to overrule the hockey people.

 

"Tim, I hear ya. But I fracked many a well and I know it's not the size of your drill bit, it's how hard you whack your fracker. It's only year 3, we're not trading any of our prized prospects to try and win it all right now. Sorry. Cliff, pass me those Triscuits."

 

It's what you wanted, fans. You'll have to live with that day if it comes.

 

We'll be living with it no matter what since we have no input on how the Pegulas run the team. Why worry about it? As fans (except for Stafford who reads the board religiously) we only ever have two courses of action: watch or don't watch. Everyone has to make their own decision where the line is on that one.

Edited July 8, 2014 by MattPie

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

Variation on a theme. Kim and Terry have every right to be involved — up until they exercise their right to actually make a decision.

 

You (not you, Glass) can't have it both ways. Once you invite and support the owners' direct participation in decisions, you have to live with the possibility they're going to overrule the hockey people.

 

"Tim, I hear ya. But I fracked many a well and I know it's not the size of your drill bit, it's how hard you whack your fracker. It's only year 3, we're not trading any of our prized prospects to try and win it all right now. Sorry. Cliff, pass me those Triscuits."

 

It's what you wanted, fans. You'll have to live with that day if it comes.

 

This is why I like GMTM. I think he quits eight seconds later...via text.

 

My board of directors can absolutely be involved in every major decision making process. Most of them are finance whizzes who couldn't manufacture a good poop after a garbage plate. The day they force us into a bad manufacturing decision is the day the CEO resigns.

[Peter]

 

 

This is why I like GMTM. I think he quits eight seconds later...via text.

 

My board of directors can absolutely be involved in every major decision making process. Most of them are finance whizzes who couldn't manufacture a good poop after a garbage plate. The day they force us into a bad manufacturing decision is the day the CEO resigns.

Interesting that when Bucky's buddy PLF left, GMTM stayed. The fact that GMTM stayed (as well as PLF's short tenure on the Island) is further evidence that Bucky just has an axe to grind with the Pegulas. In fact, this is less about him being sexist and more about him being a first class ######.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Interesting that when Bucky's buddy PLF left, GMTM stayed. The fact that GMTM stayed (as well as PLF's short tenure on the Island) is further evidence that Bucky just has an axe to grind with the Pegulas. In fact, this is less about him being sexist and more about him being a first class ######.

 

Also my interpretation....and the thing I have the hardest time understanding is how people think a GM will just quit a job if they don't have full autonomy. Does anyone have an example of this ever happening? A quick search online shows me Darryl Sutter did it w/ the Flames, but that may have been out of self preservation as the team was floundering and had no hope in the near future. Brian Burke did it in the 90's with the Whalers, but stayed on to assist with a transition to the league office. Not once have I seen that someone has left because they didn't feel they could do their job.

 

In my opinion this would destroy any and all bridges that a GM (especially one starting his career like Murray) would have left. And with limited options at the NHL level, I'm betting that it takes way more than an owner stepping in for a player to make a GM make that move.

[IKnowPhysics]

Also my interpretation....and the thing I have the hardest time understanding is how people think a GM will just quit a job if they don't have full autonomy. Does anyone have an example of this ever happening? A quick search online shows me Darryl Sutter did it w/ the Flames, but that may have been out of self preservation as the team was floundering and had no hope in the near future. Brian Burke did it in the 90's with the Whalers, but stayed on to assist with a transition to the league office. Not once have I seen that someone has left because they didn't feel they could do their job.

 

Jay Feaster, of all idiots, did this with three years left on his contract and with good reason after the owners coerced Dan Boyle to waive his no-trade clause and made other moves.

 

As a harbinger of new ownership's sketchy hockey-IQ, on July 4, 2008, and despite coming off a recent contract extension, Boyle was traded along with Brad Lukowich to the San Jose Sharks in exchange for Matt Carle, Ty Wishart, a first round draft pick in 2009 and a fourth round draft pick in 2010. Boyle was pressured to waive his no-trade clause by Tampa Bay's ownership, who said they would otherwise place him on waivers where he would likely be claimed by the Atlanta Thrashers. In the fallout from the trade, Boyle would call the owners liars [15] for misrepresenting the aforementioned events to the public, while former coach Tortorella later labeled them as "cowboys" and said that he had zero respect for them.[16] Frustrated at interference in the team's hockey operations by Barrie andKoules, seven days later GM Jay Feaster saw the handwriting on the wall and resigned, despite having 3 years remaining on his contract.

 

Neil Smith got fired by Charles Wang after only 41 days because he "didn't fit into the management model." Pat LaFontaine would quit as Senior Adviser as a result. Would Smith have quit? Maybe, but then he probably wouldn't have gotten paid. He may have asked to be fired.

 

Smith reportedly had grown frustrated with his lack of authority on personnel and staffing decisions, as owner Charles Wang had at that time instituted a setup where decisions were made collectively by a group of advisers rather than by the General Manager alone. Wang believed that Smith was incapable of fitting within this model and subsequently fired him. Pat LaFontaine, who had recently been hired by the team as a senior adviser, quit his post the same day in reaction to the firing of Smith.

Edited July 9, 2014 by IKnowPhysics

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Thanks for digging those up, wasn't easy to find on my quick look.

[Taro T]

 

 

This is why I like GMTM. I think he quits eight seconds later...via text.

 

My board of directors can absolutely be involved in every major decision making process. Most of them are finance whizzes who couldn't manufacture a good poop after a garbage plate. The day they force us into a bad manufacturing decision is the day the CEO resigns.

Yep.

 

You still go to board before implementing big decisions and that's a good thing. When you have to explain 'why' to someone, you necessarily gets your ducks in a row better.

 

This essentially is no different.

[...]

 

 

Variation on a theme. Kim and Terry have every right to be involved — up until they exercise their right to actually make a decision.

 

You (not you, Glass) can't have it both ways. Once you invite and support the owners' direct participation in decisions, you have to live with the possibility they're going to overrule the hockey people.

 

"Tim, I hear ya. But I fracked many a well and I know it's not the size of your drill bit, it's how hard you whack your fracker. It's only year 3, we're not trading any of our prized prospects to try and win it all right now. Sorry. Cliff, pass me those Triscuits."

 

It's what you wanted, fans. You'll have to live with that day if it comes.

 

Isn't it possible that Kim is there to over rule Terry? I can see that prior to Darcy's firing, there was a near-domestic incident or two in the Pegula household. The kids were complaining to mom that their friends, and the world, are mocking them. Kim confronts Terry while he munches his dinner broccoli:

 

"Terry, the kids are upset over the hockey team. They're being made fun of by strangers in Alberta. That's in Canada. And, frankly, I'm a little miffed about the whole thing, too. Remember when Jess brought you home that plant for your desk."

 

"Well, not specifically..."

 

"It died, Terry. While on your desk, in front of you. It drooped over, turned brown, and became a twig."

 

"Ohhh, yeah, I remember that. Jess wasn't happy about that, was she?"

 

"Of course not. This is what you're doing with your hockey team, Terry. It's drooped over and turning brown."

 

"But dear, I'm doing the best I can...it's not easy running a team..."

 

"LET THE HOCKEY PEOPLE DO IT! Honey, I love you, but you can't run a team worth a damn..."

 

"But..."

 

"No buts, and I'm going to start going to the meetings to make sure you behave. Got me?"

 

"But..."

 

"I mean it, Terry."

 

"Okay..."

 

I can see this. I can see Kim making sure Terry doesn't micro-manage the team to death.

[PromoTheRobot]

I need to dig up the original TP as new owner thread. I predicted he'd be a villain in two years. Was I wrong?

Edited July 9, 2014 by PromoTheRobot

[That Aud Smell]

Battista's with smothering people with pillows.

 

I can't quit you.

[IKnowPhysics]

I need to dig up the original TP as new owner thread. I predicted he'd be a villain in two years. Was I wrong?

 

Yes.

[That Aud Smell]

Villain?

 

Psshh. C'mon.

[Stoner]

Yep.

 

You still go to board before implementing big decisions and that's a good thing. When you have to explain 'why' to someone, you necessarily gets your ducks in a row better.

 

This essentially is no different.

 

On the business side, fine. If TB's negotiating a new broadcast deal, or they're changing concession companies (yeah, right) or whatever, sure, he and his people present it to the Pegs. I have never liked the analogy that the hockey side is a business like any other, and of course the owner should be involved.

[LastPommerFan]

On the business side, fine. If TB's negotiating a new broadcast deal, or they're changing concession companies (yeah, right) or whatever, sure, he and his people present it to the Pegs. I have never liked the analogy that the hockey side is a business like any other, and of course the owner should be involved.

 

Boards tend to be more involved in personnel decisions than any other kind of decision.

 

Again, it's a good idea (creates more vetted decisions before presenting to the board) unless the board doesn't trust the CEO's judgement and forces a bad decision. In which case the CEO should resign. I think this is the dynamic in place now that was always missing under Darcy.

 

Darcy seemed like a "Mother May I?" type when talking to Ownership.

 

Murray is certainly a "Oh, it's you. I'm doing this." type.

[LGR4GM]

[Stoner]

Boards tend to be more involved in personnel decisions than any other kind of decision.

 

Again, it's a good idea (creates more vetted decisions before presenting to the board) unless the board doesn't trust the CEO's judgement and forces a bad decision. In which case the CEO should resign. I think this is the dynamic in place now that was always missing under Darcy.

 

Darcy seemed like a "Mother May I?" type when talking to Ownership.

 

Murray is certainly a "Oh, it's you. I'm doing this." type.

 

I'm lost. Who's the board? Who's the CEO?

 

http://youtu.be/MjoMQJf5vKI

 

I can't believe you would compare Kim Pegula to a deceased kangarorse. Aud oughta sock you right on the chin.

[LastPommerFan]

I'm lost. Who's the board? Who's the CEO?

 

The Pegulas are the board. Tim Murray is the CEO of the Buffalo Sabres Hockey Team.

[Stoner]

The Pegulas are the board. Tim Murray is the CEO of the Buffalo Sabres Hockey Team.

 

You could also view the Pegulas as the CEOs, the cronies (Benson, Sawyer, Black, Battista) as the board and Murray as, uh, general manager.

 

Or we could take Terry at his word that it's a flat structure where Terry is part-GM and Tim is part-owner.

[LastPommerFan]

You could also view the Pegulas as the CEOs, the cronies (Benson, Sawyer, Black, Battista) as the board and Murray as, uh, general manager.

 

Or we could take Terry at his word that it's a flat structure where Terry is part-GM and Tim is part-owner.

 

Benson, Sawyer, Black, and Battista can't fire Terry. So the first potential view doesn't make sense.

 

"Flat Structure" is a nice term executives and owners use to make people with less power feel like they have some power.

 

The Pegulas are the board (you could include the Black-Benson-Batista-Sawyer advisory group here as well). Tim Murray is the CEO of the Buffalo Sabres Hockey Team.

[That Aud Smell]

I just don't want non-hockey people making hockey decisions. It's such a no-brainer, I'm always a bit stunned when I get disagreement. And I'm the contrarian!

 

What you (or I or anyone on this board) want has not a fig to do with anything that happens with the Sabres' FO. (And, yes, I realize that message board culture is based on applying what a poster wants to do what a team does.)

 

If GMTM can't convince Kim and Terry that his way is the best way, I want a different GM.

 

Quite right. And if GM TM were to get the sort of micro-management that PA fears (imagines), then he'll be out the door, as others have noted. Via text -- that was a great call.

 

Nothing made sense Everything was fine here until Kim showed up.

I knew what you meant.

 

a smart mama bear will out-ruthless most daddy bears any day.

Like I said, given a choice of active owners: I'd take Mrs. Pegula.

 

It's what you wanted, fans. You'll have to live with that day if it comes.

Again, who here got what they wanted? And how does what we want have anything to do with who and what they are? (Hint" Nothing.)

 

Tim Murray is the CEO of the Buffalo Sabres Hockey Team.

Quite right. Whatever the title: He's the chief officer of Sabres hockey, and he reports directly to the owner. The owner is basically functioning as chairman of the board. GM TM is a member of that board as well, as are Mrs. Pegula (#smh), Sawyer, Benson, Black, Battista, and Patrick.

 

As X had said, I can't summon energy to re-hash this debate (such as it is).

Edited July 9, 2014 by That Aud Smell