Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 I think I the Old Bull Approach will work for one more year. Also relevant when speaking of the ladies in the 300 level.....
MattPie Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 I've read all of the above comments and I have a couple of comments/questions. So, you are Ted Nolan. On the first day of training camp, what do you tell your players? "Boys, we all know what we need to do this year. Don't exert yourself..." Really? You just brought in the CAPTAIN of the Montreal Canadiens, and you're first instruction to him is to slack off? Hmm... These players are professionals (and that doesn't just mean they get paid to play hockey). They all have SOME level of pride. They don't want to play to lose, they want to win. It's very easy for fans to talk about "tanking" (which, to me is as bad as throwing a game on purpose for money). Anyone who is expecting the cosmic tumblers to fall into place and drop McDavid or Eichel into our laps ...well, go buy another Powerball ticket. You can make your own "luck" - the Sabres have amassed a large number of picks in next year's draft. So, when the draft lottery takes place and the Sabres don't win it, you trade some of your higher round picks (and maybe a prospect or two) for the #1 overall. It can be done (and if anyone can pull it off, it's GMTM). This tanking business is the bunk. No one has suggested the team and coaching staff are actually tanking, as in throwing games. Ted Nolan walks in on day 1 and says, "We all know the situation we're in. We're not expected to be good. We're not expected to win. But we're going to work our ###### off and play hard. Let the wins and losses fall where they may.". Is this really so hard to understand? Bolded: No, it can't. The last time it happened was the special case of the Sedins. If I read right, Joe Thornton is the only player that was picked #1 that has been traded during the salary cap era, and no team has actually traded the pick itself. If you get the #1 overall, you make the pick.
JJFIVEOH Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 No one has suggested the team and coaching staff are actually tanking, as in throwing games. Ted Nolan walks in on day 1 and says, "We all know the situation we're in. We're not expected to be good. We're not expected to win. But we're going to work our ###### off and play hard. Let the wins and losses fall where they may.". Is this really so hard to understand? Most have left that impression, many have embraced the idea. He never said anybody hinted at throwing games. All he did was give a summary of the direction the thread was going, and I tend to agree. Just go back to last year when so called 'die-hard' fans complained about winning. I don't think that's hard to understand.
Jsixspd Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Let's assume we're not trying to 'throw games' - which is ridiculous and not going to ever happen with competitive male athletes. IF we're not trying to throw games (and we're not), and these guys are gonna do the best they can (they are) I'll stick with my 70-80 point prediction for 2014-15. It will be better than last season, but we've got some more growing/building to do. But the bottom was the last couple years - we're on our way up now.
Randall Flagg Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 I've read all of the above comments and I have a couple of comments/questions. So, you are Ted Nolan. On the first day of training camp, what do you tell your players? "Boys, we all know what we need to do this year. Don't exert yourself..." Really? You just brought in the CAPTAIN of the Montreal Canadiens, and you're first instruction to him is to slack off? Hmm... These players are professionals (and that doesn't just mean they get paid to play hockey). They all have SOME level of pride. They don't want to play to lose, they want to win. It's very easy for fans to talk about "tanking" (which, to me is as bad as throwing a game on purpose for money). Anyone who is expecting the cosmic tumblers to fall into place and drop McDavid or Eichel into our laps ...well, go buy another Powerball ticket. You can make your own "luck" - the Sabres have amassed a large number of picks in next year's draft. So, when the draft lottery takes place and the Sabres don't win it, you trade some of your higher round picks (and maybe a prospect or two) for the #1 overall. It can be done (and if anyone can pull it off, it's GMTM). This tanking business is the bunk. Straw man, as mentioned above. Not one person has ever suggested the players not playing their hearts out every shift.
Claude_Verret Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 I've read all of the above comments and I have a couple of comments/questions. So, you are Ted Nolan. On the first day of training camp, what do you tell your players? "Boys, we all know what we need to do this year. Don't exert yourself..." Really? You just brought in the CAPTAIN of the Montreal Canadiens, and you're first instruction to him is to slack off? Hmm... These players are professionals (and that doesn't just mean they get paid to play hockey). They all have SOME level of pride. They don't want to play to lose, they want to win. It's very easy for fans to talk about "tanking" (which, to me is as bad as throwing a game on purpose for money). Anyone who is expecting the cosmic tumblers to fall into place and drop McDavid or Eichel into our laps ...well, go buy another Powerball ticket. You can make your own "luck" - the Sabres have amassed a large number of picks in next year's draft. So, when the draft lottery takes place and the Sabres don't win it, you trade some of your higher round picks (and maybe a prospect or two) for the #1 overall. It can be done (and if anyone can pull it off, it's GMTM). This tanking business is the bunk. You've been here for awhile, have you also read the bulk of the pro tank posts since last season? I can't believe someone who has been around since the tank talk started in earnest can STILL be so off target on what the tank philosophy is and means. Everything you wrote above is out of line with what it means to tank. You anti-tankers like to talk about absolutes when it comes to tanking for the #1 pick in 2015. Here is an absolute that you can take to the bank about the 2015 #1 pick: It won't be traded. Ever.
dEnnis the Menace Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Straw man, as mentioned above. Not one person has ever suggested the players not playing their hearts out every shift. exactly. Even last year, the guys played as hard as they could, but given the fact that most of them aren't exactly NHL lineup worthy, it just wasn't good enough.
X. Benedict Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 You've been here for awhile, have you also read the bulk of the pro tank posts since last season? I can't believe someone who has been around since the tank talk started in earnest can STILL be so off target on what the tank philosophy is and means. Everything you wrote above is out of line with what it means to tank. You anti-tankers like to talk about absolutes when it comes to tanking for the #1 pick in 2015. Here is an absolute that you can take to the bank about the 2015 #1 pick: It won't be traded. Ever. And for that we will all be tankful.
nfreeman Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 I've read all of the above comments and I have a couple of comments/questions. So, you are Ted Nolan. On the first day of training camp, what do you tell your players? "Boys, we all know what we need to do this year. Don't exert yourself..." Really? You just brought in the CAPTAIN of the Montreal Canadiens, and you're first instruction to him is to slack off? Hmm... These players are professionals (and that doesn't just mean they get paid to play hockey). They all have SOME level of pride. They don't want to play to lose, they want to win. It's very easy for fans to talk about "tanking" (which, to me is as bad as throwing a game on purpose for money). Anyone who is expecting the cosmic tumblers to fall into place and drop McDavid or Eichel into our laps ...well, go buy another Powerball ticket. You can make your own "luck" - the Sabres have amassed a large number of picks in next year's draft. So, when the draft lottery takes place and the Sabres don't win it, you trade some of your higher round picks (and maybe a prospect or two) for the #1 overall. It can be done (and if anyone can pull it off, it's GMTM). This tanking business is the bunk. No. No one has suggested the team and coaching staff are actually tanking, as in throwing games. Ted Nolan walks in on day 1 and says, "We all know the situation we're in. We're not expected to be good. We're not expected to win. But we're going to work our ###### off and play hard. Let the wins and losses fall where they may.". Is this really so hard to understand? Bolded: No, it can't. The last time it happened was the special case of the Sedins. If I read right, Joe Thornton is the only player that was picked #1 that has been traded during the salary cap era, and no team has actually traded the pick itself. If you get the #1 overall, you make the pick. You've been here for awhile, have you also read the bulk of the pro tank posts since last season? I can't believe someone who has been around since the tank talk started in earnest can STILL be so off target on what the tank philosophy is and means. Everything you wrote above is out of line with what it means to tank. You anti-tankers like to talk about absolutes when it comes to tanking for the #1 pick in 2015. Here is an absolute that you can take to the bank about the 2015 #1 pick: It won't be traded. Ever. Both of these. Once more, with feeling: there is NFW that #1 or #2 overall in next year's draft is getting traded.
IKnowPhysics Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) If SabreDance is right and all it takes to win games is working hard, then nobody should be blaming Darcy Regier for anything- it was all on the players' shoulders the whole time. But that ain't the case, mostly. The players we bring in will work their hardest to win games. That is how they will keep their jobs. None of them want to be replaced. The roster we assemble will not win many games. That is how we tank. We assemble the veteran players we think we may want as mentors going forward, but they won't win without the influx of young top-end skill and the kids aren't here yet. Call it what you want, but this year is an audition year for players to play with what will eventually be an NHL powerhouse. Players are going to be asked to give it all when the season is all but lost. If they do, then they're of the exact fortitude we need. If they don't, they're on the next train out with Leino and Ehrhoff. Edited July 8, 2014 by IKnowPhysics
JJFIVEOH Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Now Schopp is promoting the 'tank'. This mentality really is disheartening. I hope this board doesn't speak for the majority of Sabres fans, because if I'm a possible UFA looking for a team I sure as hell am not going to a city that gets pissed at me for giving it my all to win for the city. Really sad that anybody can embrace losing no matter what aspect of life you're talking about.
LastPommerFan Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Now Schopp is promoting the 'tank'. This mentality really is disheartening. I hope this board doesn't speak for the majority of Sabres fans, because if I'm a possible UFA looking for a team I sure as hell am not going to a city that gets pissed at me for giving it my all to win for the city. Really sad that anybody can embrace losing no matter what aspect of life you're talking about. I want guys to give it their all and then some. I want a roster where the sum of all that is not good enough (yet) to win more than 25-30 games.
JJFIVEOH Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I want guys to give it their all and then some. I want a roster where the sum of all that is not good enough (yet) to win more than 25-30 games. You can put lipstick on a pig............ :P Edited July 8, 2014 by JJFIVEOH
Randall Flagg Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Now Schopp is promoting the 'tank'. This mentality really is disheartening. I hope this board doesn't speak for the majority of Sabres fans, because if I'm a possible UFA looking for a team I sure as hell am not going to a city that gets pissed at me for giving it my all to win for the city. Really sad that anybody can embrace losing no matter what aspect of life you're talking about. It's gotta be trolling at this point. :doh:
LastPommerFan Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 You can put lipstick on a pig............ meh.
Claude_Verret Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) I'd guess that there is not a single Sabres fan who enjoys losing. For this year there are some who will enjoy not winning too much/often. That subtle difference is what I'm thinking some fail to understand. I'll also point out again that if we had tanked properly two years ago and were looking at two top young centers in MacKinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan to pair with Reinhart, then all this tank talk for 2015 would be largely unnecessary. Edited July 8, 2014 by Claude_Verret
Derrico Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 One more year. Think of what one superstar can do to our deep stable of prospects. We've spent the last two deadlines setting ourselves up for one more down season in a very good and deep draft. Let's take our lumps this year and then we can move forward with our youth movement. Also, I really hope this is the last time I have to read someone advocating for us to trade for the first pick. Very doubtful but I hope so.
JJFIVEOH Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 It's gotta be trolling at this point. :doh: Or I'm just expressing my opinion like everybody else on this thread. I'd guess that there is not a single Sabres fan who enjoys losing. For this year there are some who will enjoy not winning too much/often. That subtle difference is what I'm thinking some fail to understand. I'll also point out again that if we had tanked properly two years ago and were looking at two top young centers in MacKinnon/Barkov/Lindholm/Monahan to pair with Reinhart, then all this tank talk for 2015 would be largely unnecessary. Couldn't tell by the GDT's last year. Members were figuring out the record needed to finish deal last, members getting upset when the Sabres scored goals, members getting excited when key (use that term loosely) players got hurt increasing the chances of winning. They may not have enjoyed losing, but they sure as hell enjoyed not winning. I hope that the GDT's this year don't get cluttered up with tank scenarios games after game after game. It's going to scare a lot of people off because it does get repetitive. In reference to two years ago, hindsight becomes really convenient after the fact.
beerme1 Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 While I am anti tank I want to say that I'm reading on this page nobody didn't give their all last year. Bull. There were certainly some that didn't and their gone now. That clears that up. And whoever thinks that pick 1 or 2 in the next draft is available, that's completely delusional. No team is giving those two prizes up knowing they are once in a generation talent.
Crusader1969 Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Or I'm just expressing my opinion like everybody else on this thread. Couldn't tell by the GDT's last year. Members were figuring out the record needed to finish deal last, members getting upset when the Sabres scored goals, members getting excited when key (use that term loosely) players got hurt increasing the chances of winning. They may not have enjoyed losing, but they sure as hell enjoyed not winning. I hope that the GDT's this year don't get cluttered up with tank scenarios games after game after game. It's going to scare a lot of people off because it does get repetitive. In reference to two years ago, hindsight becomes really convenient after the fact. Hindsight that Mckinnon was going to be a star? Im starting to think you are just trying to get everyone riled up.
MattPie Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Couldn't tell by the GDT's last year. Members were figuring out the record needed to finish deal last, members getting upset when the Sabres scored goals, members getting excited when key (use that term loosely) players got hurt increasing the chances of winning. They may not have enjoyed losing, but they sure as hell enjoyed not winning. I hope that the GDT's this year don't get cluttered up with tank scenarios games after game after game. It's going to scare a lot of people off because it does get repetitive. I always took that as gallows humor, but I may be projecting my own feelings onto those posts. All last year, I'd be mildly happy if they won, and just kind of neutral if they lost. It's actually somewhat nice in an odd way, none of the post-loss hangover that I'd get when a Sabres loss mattered (most of the previous 5-6 years). If anything, GDTs weren't very cluttered last year because there were so few posters. :)
Claude_Verret Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Couldn't tell by the GDT's last year. Members were figuring out the record needed to finish deal last, members getting upset when the Sabres scored goals, members getting excited when key (use that term loosely) players got hurt increasing the chances of winning. They may not have enjoyed losing, but they sure as hell enjoyed not winning. I hope that the GDT's this year don't get cluttered up with tank scenarios games after game after game. It's going to scare a lot of people off because it does get repetitive. Exactly correct. When you're going nowhere in terms of competing for what we all want, a Stanley Cup, sometimes it's best to retreat, stock up your reserves and live to fight stronger another day. In reference to two years ago, hindsight becomes really convenient after the fact. Except for all of us who had the foresight at the time to know that our patented run to nowhere was once again going to cost us a shot at one of the elite centers this team so desperately needed.
JJFIVEOH Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Hindsight that Mckinnon was going to be a star? Im starting to think you are just trying to get everyone riled up. I'm sorry people on here have to deal with the gang mentality when they're part of the minority. Would it be better if I just jumped on the bandwagon and avoid creating any sort of opposable viewpoints to talk about?
LastPommerFan Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 I'm sorry people on here have to deal with the gang mentality when they're part of the minority. Would it be better if I just jumped on the bandwagon and avoid creating any sort of opposable viewpoints to talk about? Best case scenario. this roster can't finish better than 20th, do you want GMTM to trade next years draft picks or current prospects for NHL players who could improve that best case scenario?
JJFIVEOH Posted July 8, 2014 Report Posted July 8, 2014 Exactly correct. When you're going nowhere in terms of competing for what we all want, a Stanley Cup, sometimes it's best to retreat, stock up your reserves and live to fight stronger another day. Except for all of us who had the foresight at the time to know that our patented run to nowhere was once again going to cost us a shot at one of the elite centers this team so desperately needed. I'm pretty sure the majority supported the Pominville and Hodgson deals. Just because the team didn't go into immediate off-the-cliff tank mode, you can't use hindsight to say they should have done so then when the majority, at the time, supported what was going on. Best case scenario. this roster can't finish better than 20th, do you want GMTM to trade next years draft picks or current prospects for NHL players who could improve that best case scenario? I'd like him to combine a prospect(s) and pick for a current proven NHL'er to give them some sort of offensive foundation to start with. This year. I like the rest of the moves he's made. I always took that as gallows humor, but I may be projecting my own feelings onto those posts. All last year, I'd be mildly happy if they won, and just kind of neutral if they lost. It's actually somewhat nice in an odd way, none of the post-loss hangover that I'd get when a Sabres loss mattered (most of the previous 5-6 years). If anything, GDTs weren't very cluttered last year because there were so few posters. :) Fair enough. :flirt:
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