Taro T Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I get the eyes on the prize part of it all but it's painful to watch this as a long time fan. I hope I never need to see the word tank and Sabres in the same sentence again after July 2015. As of the end of the season, the tank is over hopefully forever. The day after the Sabres clinch last place or the last game of the season, every activity going forward is to improve the team. July? EoS? I prefer not to wait that long for the EoT (end of tanking). Continuing @ this tepid pace (which will be almost as difficult to keep up as the torrid 1 they were just on, but is theoretically possible) could allow a 5-6 game cushion which would push the official EoT date back to 3/30/15. Not expecting 'em to run away w/ it; but that's the hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Even if we fall short of McEichel and with a top five looking like a lock, I'm certain the tank in Buffalo is done for a very long time after this year. We have three (count 'em — Myers, Ennis and Gorges) legitimate NHL veterans who are under contract next year. Let's say there is enough talent on hand after them to fill out the bottom half of a good NHL roster. We still need a top-three veteran defenceman and four top-six veteran forwards to be competitive. Not to mention the fact we don't have a goalie under contract. Where are they coming from? Not from the prospect pool. Not next year. Have you seen McEichel? Each is a helluva a hockey player, but they are both boys. The other guys in the top five are less talented boys. Zemgus is Buffalo's most effective youngster. He is a top six on some NHL teams. Zads and Risto are promising, but they are still kids. They aren't legitimate top-four defencemen yet. Defencemen generally take five years to round into form. The pipeline looks promising too, but we can't count on any of them to be effective players next year. Most of them won't even be in the NHL. If "tank" is defined as deliberately icing a crappy roster in order to pick high, then I guess you're right, the tank is over after this year. But unless Murray works some miracles, next year's will still be a crappy roster. It just won't be deliberate. The stink of the tank is going to linger for a while. Edited January 10, 2015 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I think next year's team will have plenty of NHL talent. Nobody said anything about veterans. You don't have to be a veteran to be an NHL talent... If we land McEichel then... Forwards: Ennis, Girgensons, Moulson, McEichel, Gionta, Foligno and Hodgson. The last two are questionable. Then Reinhart may be an NHL talent by opening day next year. Possibly Armia, but without counting those two you're still looking at seven solid guys to start with on top of whoever is acquired/signed in the offseason. Defensemen: Myers, Gorges, Risto, Zadorov and Weber. That's five of your top seven with Pysyk still having a shot. With McEichel I expect a finished around 8-10th from last but that's still a large improvement. I don't expect playoffs for 2-3 years. But help is on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) We have three (count 'em — Myers, Ennis and Gorges) legitimate NHL veterans who are under contract next year. Let's say there is enough talent on hand after them to fill out the bottom half of a good NHL roster. We still need a top-three veteran defenceman and four top-six veteran forwards to be competitive. Not to mention the fact we don't have a goalie under contract. Where are they coming from? Not from the prospect pool. Not next year. Have you seen McEichel? Each is a helluva a hockey player, but they are both boys. The other guys in the top five are less talented boys. Zemgus is Buffalo's most effective youngster. He is a top six on some NHL teams. Zads and Risto are promising, but they are still kids. They aren't legitimate top-four defencemen yet. Defencemen generally take five years to round into form. The pipeline looks promising too, but we can't count on any of them to be effective players next year. Most of them won't even be in the NHL. If "tank" is defined as deliberately icing a crappy roster in order to pick high, then I guess you're right, the tank is over. But unless Murray works some miracles, next year's will still be a crappy roster. It just won't be deliberate. The stink of the tank is going to linger for a while. Good post. The only way this team is playing winning hockey within two years is if Murray is aggressive with turning a good amount of these prospects/picks into NHL ready players. Don't fall in love with anybody on this team or in the system. Murray has a lot of work to do. He has the resources but the question will be will he have the balls to make some moves that will not be very popular when he makes them. This draft and our draft position is everything. McEichle is a no brainer but that is the slam dunk. Any GM can fill out that draft card. If Murray sits on his hands this draft and just picks players I will be worried and think he is not the man for this job. He needs to be creative and make deals. Edited January 10, 2015 by sicknfla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I fully expect the Sabres to fall into some sort of "entertainingly bad" category next season. What many people saw during the winning streak this year, I expect next year's product to actually be. I'm thinking they'll draft in the 8-11 range. Not quite the playoff bubble, but close enough to give optimism. '16-17 is when the really good stuff starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I think next year's team will have plenty of NHL talent. Nobody said anything about veterans. You don't have to be a veteran to be an NHL talent... If we land McEichel then... Forwards: Ennis, Girgensons, Moulson, McEichel, Gionta, Foligno and Hodgson. The last two are questionable. Then Reinhart may be an NHL talent by opening day next year. Possibly Armia, but without counting those two you're still looking at seven solid guys to start with on top of whoever is acquired/signed in the offseason. Defensemen: Myers, Gorges, Risto, Zadorov and Weber. That's five of your top seven with Pysyk still having a shot. With McEichel I expect a finished around 8-10th from last but that's still a large improvement. I don't expect playoffs for 2-3 years. But help is on the way. So, where they would slot on a good NHL team: ???/???/??? Ennis/Girgensons/Moulson Gionta/McDavid/Hodgson Foligno/???/??? ???/Myers Risto/Gorges ???/Zadorov Weber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 So, where they would slot on a good NHL team: ???/???/??? Ennis/Girgensons/Moulson Gionta/McDavid/Hodgson Foligno/???/??? ???/Myers Risto/Gorges ???/Zadorov Weber Don't forget Reinhart. Also can't count out Grigorenko and Armia. We will be better next year but by how much you couldn't say right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 So, where they would slot on a good NHL team: ???/???/??? Ennis/Girgensons/Moulson Gionta/McDavid/Hodgson Foligno/???/??? ???/Myers Risto/Gorges ???/Zadorov Weber I think McDavid would be solidly top-6 on just about any team next year. Maybe not at center, but in there somewhere. Same with Reinhart. I also expect a legit roster building move or two in the offseason. I'm sticking with "entertainingly bad." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) I think McDavid would be solidly top-6 on just about any team next year. Maybe not at center, but in there somewhere. Same with Reinhart. I also expect a legit roster building move or two in the offseason. I'm sticking with "entertainingly bad." Agreed. He could be a top six player on a bad team this year... (On McDavid, I'm not sure where Reinhart would slot in). With McEichel I could see a lineup about halfway into the season as: Moulson/McEichel/??? Ennis/Reinhart/Armia ???/Girgensons/Gionta Foligno/???/Deslauriers That's basically with what we have plus McEichel. Didn't really consider line fits because we don't really know at this point. That's not a playoff team next year but in a few with some vets sprinkled in? Edited January 10, 2015 by Tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 That is just it, our pipeline is between 18-20 yrs old, besides ennis and myers we have no one actually rdy for the NHL. Here lies the problem with grigorenko, we can't waive him so he has to stay up with the big club or we trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 That is just it, our pipeline is between 18-20 yrs old, besides ennis and myers we have no one actually rdy for the NHL. Here lies the problem with grigorenko, we can't waive him so he has to stay up with the big club or we trade him. I am very comfortable with playing Grigorenko 15-20mins a night on the 3rd line with PK and PP responsibility. I think he could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 The solution is simple for me. I don't watch. I had center ice ever since I moved to NC, but the decision was easy not to order it knowing what was in store for these two seasons. The only fans that I feel bad for in all of this are the season ticket holders. If it didn't constitute a public admission to tanking and that fan suggestion box was still open to Ted Black, I'd submit that all season ticket holders who endured through the two full tank seasons should be heavily compensated. Even if we fall short of McEichel and with a top five looking like a lock, I'm certain the tank in Buffalo is done for a very long time after this year. They will be compensated by being able to watch Eichel or McDavid in the Blue in Gold for the next decade or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 as for the pipeline part you are right. it will be 2-3 years before the 2014 draft class starts to impact the team and 3-4 years before the 2015 one does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 I am very comfortable with playing Grigorenko 15-20mins a night on the 3rd line with PK and PP responsibility. I think he could do it. Oh yeah i got faith in him to, defensively he has already shown not to be worser than most of the veterans. But seeing him produce 40 - 50 points, we are still a year away from that atleast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) If "tank" is defined as deliberately icing a crappy roster in order to pick high, then I guess you're right, the tank is over after this year. This is what I meant, yes. We aren't suddenly a playoff team next year, and very well may end up with another top five pick, but it won't be by design like these past two seasons. Edited January 10, 2015 by Claude_Verret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 (edited) Agreed. He could be a top six player on a bad team this year... (On McDavid, I'm not sure where Reinhart would slot in). With McEichel I could see a lineup about halfway into the season as: Moulson/McEichel/??? Ennis/Reinhart/Armia ???/Girgensons/Gionta Foligno/???/Deslauriers That's basically with what we have plus McEichel. Didn't really consider line fits because we don't really know at this point. That's not a playoff team next year but in a few with some vets sprinkled in? And this is why I think trading Myers is not a matter of if but when. With Pysyk and McCabe in the pipeline we have to turn the asset of Myers into offensive help. Most didn't like the proposal that included Tatar but we are so limited offensively that a move similar to this will be imperative. If you don't want to move Myers then you will see something along the lines of Pysyk, prospect, and one of the late #1's for a NHL ready winger that can score. Edited January 10, 2015 by sicknfla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted January 10, 2015 Report Share Posted January 10, 2015 Zemgus, Grigo, Risto and Nikita are a year older next year. Pysyk and McCabe should be an upgrade from Benwa's Mess. Reinhart and or Armia may be ready. One of Baptiste, Bailey or Lemieux could surprise. McEichel should crack the top six. The Isles and Blues picks or others we have or get for Staff, Stewart and a goalie could net us a top six forward. UFA group is not strong but we can look for 1 top 9 veteran. Other teams tight to the cap will have good players available to snap up for below market value as NYI picked up Leddy and Boychuk. The cap may not increase and may drop as the canadian dollar is falling. We will be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Within six months, virtually every bullet will be emptied from the tank chamber. Everybody knows what this is about: Trading off existing assets for futures with the aim of acquiring elite talent at the top of the draft. But as we hit the stretch drive, I thought it would be interesting to review exactly where we are at. What we've given up: * Veterans Ryan Miller, Jason Pominville, Thomas Vanek, Paul Gaustad, Robyn Regher, Andrej Sekera and Jordan Leopold * Prospect Brayden McNabb * The draft picks used to take Patrick Sieloff (2012 2nd given to Calgary for Zemgus) and Juuse Saros (2012 4th given to Nashville in the Gaustad deal) and our 2015 3rd to Washington (in the Halak deal) * Darcy Regier * Two years (and counting) of some of the most horrific hockey we have ever watched What we've acquired: * Veterans Matt Moulson and Josh Gorges * Prospects Nic Deslauriers, Hudson Fasching, William Carrier, Johan Larsson and Jeff Hackett * The draft picks used to take Zemgus Girgensons, Nikita Zadorov, JT Compher, Justin Bailey, Anthony Florentino, Eric Cornel, Vaclav Karabacek and Brycen Martin * Tim Murray * The opportunity to draft Sam Reinhart Chips still to be played: * Veterans Drew Stafford, Jhonas Enroth, Chris Stewart, Michal Neuvirth and Torrey Mitchell * NYI 2015 1st, St. Louis 2015 1st, NYI 2015 2nd, St. Louis 2016 3rd * The cap space created this summer * The opportunity to draft ??? with this year's high pick How are we doing? Edited January 18, 2015 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 McEichle and Samson have to be top 6 impact players. Risto and Zadarov have to be legit top 4 defenders. At least 4 other prospects must be everyday NHL players. That is 8. Myers, Pysyk, Gorges, Ennis, Moulson, Girgs makes it 14. How Murray fills out the other 7 will be the deciding factor IMO. Whether by trade or FA he will have to be creative. This is not turning around simply with prospects and future draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 McEichle and Samson have to be top 6 impact players. Risto and Zadarov have to be legit top 4 defenders. At least 4 other prospects must be everyday NHL players. That is 8. Myers, Pysyk, Gorges, Ennis, Moulson, Girgs makes it 14. How Murray fills out the other 7 will be the deciding factor IMO. Whether by trade or FA he will have to be creative. This is not turning around simply with prospects and future draft picks. 21 skaters on the roster, but only 18 skaters play, and 3 of those are your 4th line. Murray only needs to find 1 more top 6 forward and 1 4/5 defenseman to finish out the 2016-17 roster. Everything else is just filler. if we get 6 players from the 18 first and second round picks (including the 2015 draft and Carrier) not named Zemgus, Rasmus, Nikita, or Samson, we'll be loaded for bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 212 games of tank, only 37 of those left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 21 skaters on the roster, but only 18 skaters play, and 3 of those are your 4th line. Murray only needs to find 1 more top 6 forward and 1 4/5 defenseman to finish out the 2016-17 roster. Everything else is just filler. if we get 6 players from the 18 first and second round picks (including the 2015 draft and Carrier) not named Zemgus, Rasmus, Nikita, or Samson, we'll be loaded for bear. I was counting goalies in the equation. Not sure if we have one in the organization yet that we can consider our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 17, 2015 Report Share Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) 212 games of tank, only 37 of those left. How do you figure that? The only intentional tanking we've done is these past 2 seasons, and I guess when Regeir started selling off te deadline with Pommers Edited January 17, 2015 by WildCard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 How do you figure that? The only intentional tanking we've done is these past 2 seasons, and I guess when Regeir started selling off te deadline with Pommers Lockout, Last season, This season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Lockout year was a too little, too late half assed tanking effort. Doesn't count in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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