LGR4GM Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 "Bust" is obviously premature, but really: weren't you hoping to see more out of him? We all knew he wasn't going to be Crosby right out of the gate, but many here expected him to be the #2 or #3 center this year and be an effective NHL forward. That hasn't happened. His play may be disappointing to me but I do not find it surprising. His game is predicated on his ability to think and react before things happen. It will easily take more than 9 games for his brain to catch up and understand what it needs to do. A couple years from now he will be doing things that make us glad we drafted him 2nd overall. If 21 year old Reinhart is playing roughly the same perimeter game with little impact, than yes we can call him a bust.
LastPommerFan Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 I though the would be significantly better than he is, but at the time, I had no concept of how terrible the team around him was going to be.
K-9 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 His play may be disappointing to me but I do not find it surprising. His game is predicated on his ability to think and react before things happen. It will easily take more than 9 games for his brain to catch up and understand what it needs to do. A couple years from now he will be doing things that make us glad we drafted him 2nd overall. If 21 year old Reinhart is playing roughly the same perimeter game with little impact, than yes we can call him a bust. While I certainly agree with everyone that says SR needs to mature physically, I've seen NUMEROUS examples of his hockey acumen at work on the ice. His biggest problem is that NONE of his linemates are at the same level in that regard and aren't able to keep up in the anticipation department. We all knew he wasn't an "explosive" player, but he's been as advertised otherwise. It's not his fault that his fellow fourth line scrubs can't see the game like he does. GO SABRES!!!
LGR4GM Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 While I certainly agree with everyone that says SR needs to mature physically, I've seen NUMEROUS examples of his hockey acumen at work on the ice. His biggest problem is that NONE of his linemates are at the same level in that regard and aren't able to keep up in the anticipation department. We all knew he wasn't an "explosive" player, but he's been as advertised otherwise. It's not his fault that his fellow fourth line scrubs can't see the game like he does. GO SABRES!!! This is another problem. His line mates don't function on his level and he hasn't reached a higher level to be able to adjust to their deficiencies.
TrueBlueGED Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 If I were to tell people Reinhart was going to get dogshit linemates and no power play time, would you still expect more points? I will preface this by saying Reinhart is facing significantly easier competition (which should be somewhat offset by his most frequent linemates being Deslauriers and McCormick), but he is 3rd on the team in relative Corsi, behind Stewart and Foligno. Reinhart is at a 10.7, whereas Deslauriers is at -0.3 and McCormick is at -26.2. But ya know, Reinhart should be putting up points...or something. After looking at the stats, I want that Foligno-Reinhart-Stewart line back together pronto. While I certainly agree with everyone that says SR needs to mature physically, I've seen NUMEROUS examples of his hockey acumen at work on the ice. His biggest problem is that NONE of his linemates are at the same level in that regard and aren't able to keep up in the anticipation department. We all knew he wasn't an "explosive" player, but he's been as advertised otherwise. It's not his fault that his fellow fourth line scrubs can't see the game like he does. GO SABRES!!! Way to be lame and beat me to the punch because I was busy looking up the stats :P
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 "Bust" is obviously premature, but really: weren't you hoping to see more out of him? We all knew he wasn't going to be Crosby right out of the gate, but many here expected him to be the #2 or #3 center this year and be an effective NHL forward. That hasn't happened. First of all, to those yipping (not freeman), the post was in response to the snark saying that 2 examples of prospective #1 NFL picks ruining their career before they got drafted was irrelevant. SO I made it relevant. Many here were penciling in Rienhart as the #1 center. I know it came with a wrning that he wasn't an explosive skater, but he doesn't even look like an NHL skater at this point. I'm actually shocked. We've been having the former GM, the team president, the Pegula owned radio network, and many fans here blowing smoke up our skirts the past 3 seasons about how awesome it will be to get high draft picks and how it will lead the team to the promised land. Well....you have the BEST FORWARD in an entire draft class, and the kid is worthless currently. You could put Charlie Parker in the sax section of a junior high band and he will get drowned out by the wall of incoherent noise. You could also put Stanley Czublowtarski in the sax section of a high school band, and he'd fit right in. So far, looks like the Sabres have another Czublowtarski.
K-9 Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 First of all, to those yipping (not freeman), the post was in response to the snark saying that 2 examples of prospective #1 NFL picks ruining their career before they got drafted was irrelevant. SO I made it relevant. Many here were penciling in Rienhart as the #1 center. I know it came with a wrning that he wasn't an explosive skater, but he doesn't even look like an NHL skater at this point. I'm actually shocked. We've been having the former GM, the team president, the Pegula owned radio network, and many fans here blowing smoke up our skirts the past 3 seasons about how awesome it will be to get high draft picks and how it will lead the team to the promised land. Well....you have the BEST FORWARD in an entire draft class, and the kid is worthless currently. You could put Charlie Parker in the sax section of a junior high band and he will get drowned out by the wall of incoherent noise. You could also put Stanley Czublowtarski in the sax section of a high school band, and he'd fit right in. So far, looks like the Sabres have another Czublowtarski. Sounds like Reinhart really let you down. But if you haven't seen him flashing his intelligence on the ice, his single greatest attribute coming out and the sole reason he was drafted #2 overall, I don't know what to tell you. Your music metaphor makes sense; he's playing Mozart and his linemates can't read music. GO SABRES!!!
Hoss Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 First of all, to those yipping (not freeman), the post was in response to the snark saying that 2 examples of prospective #1 NFL picks ruining their career before they got drafted was irrelevant. SO I made it relevant. So what are you saying? Because that post writing Reinhart off as another McGahee/Daigle was still stupid. And nothing you said here changes or justifies it.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 Sounds like Reinhart really let you down. But if you haven't seen him flashing his intelligence on the ice, his single greatest attribute coming out and the sole reason he was drafted #2 overall, I don't know what to tell you. Your music metaphor makes sense; he's playing Mozart and his linemates can't read music. GO SABRES!!! He lost me on that 2-1 out of the penalty box. He skated directly into the middle of the ice towards the defender in slow motion, then floated a pass 3 feet in the air towards Ennis' head. It wasn't skilled, it wasn't smart, it wasn't anything. He looks out of place on a line with McCormick and Delauries....not because he's smart, but because he is waiting for something to happen because he isn't able to make anything happen with his feet or body. He may very well end up a 70 point guy 5 years from now. Tell me how the tank is 1/2 over then?
IKnowPhysics Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) Hypothesis: The Buffalo Sabres are currently a middle-of-the-road NHL team that's missing a top offensive line. Maths: Sabres score 1.00G/GP (30th), get scored against 3.30 GA/GP (21st). Anaheim Ducks' top line (for example) has totaled 17 goals in the same number of games, or 1.7 G/GP. If Buffalo had such a top line, roughly speaking, that added firepower could see the team scoring 2.70 G/GP, which would be good enough for 15th. Analysis: It makes some intuitive sense: Moulson-Ennis-Stafford, now playing the top line, is about what you could expect a 2nd line on a middle-of-the-road team to be. The rest are 3rd/4th liners (with possible exceptions for Zemgus, etc). This isn't even close to exact, but it's a loose metric for what we need to develop just to get back to average: at least three top line offensive players. Edited October 30, 2014 by IKnowPhysics
TheFunPolice Posted October 30, 2014 Report Posted October 30, 2014 The Hurricanes are starting to scare me They need to get some wins in the bank before the Sabres slip up and win a few more or we could be drafting 5th overall or something dumb by finishing 2nd
TrueBlueGED Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Hypothesis: The Buffalo Sabres are currently a middle-of-the-road NHL team that's missing a top offensive line. Maths: Sabres score 1.00G/GP (30th), get scored against 3.30 GA/GP (21st). Anaheim Ducks' top line (for example) has totaled 17 goals in the same number of games, or 1.7 G/GP. If Buffalo had such a top line, roughly speaking, that added firepower could see the team scoring 2.70 G/GP, which would be good enough for 15th. Analysis: It makes some intuitive sense: Moulson-Ennis-Stafford, now playing the top line, is about what you could expect a 2nd line on a middle-of-the-road team to be. The rest are 3rd/4th liners (with possible exceptions for Zemgus, etc). This isn't even close to exact, but it's a loose metric for what we need to develop just to get back to average: at least three top line offensive players. The Sabres CF% is 36.7, 6 points back from 29th place. FF%? 35.7, 8 points back from 29th place. Just getting a top line doesn't change the fact that we have 1 D who can move the puck, which is kind of essential nowadays. If you want me to put it differently, here are the components I think the team needs to hit mediocre: 1C, 1RW, 2C, 2RW, 1D, 2/3D, and maybe something on the 3rd line.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Just getting a top line doesn't change the fact that we have 1 D who can move the puck, which is kind of essential nowadays. So you are saying Risto is pretty much useless as well at this point? Or Myers? If it's Risto....then it proves even more there is plenty more suffering going forward and Guys like he, Rienhart, Zadorov, Grigorenko, and Armia take years to develop if ever. This may not be a playoff team until 2018.
Jsixspd Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 The Tank isn't going well. We're 3 points ahead of Carolina now, including the meaningless point made in the loss to the Bruins last night. . Also, Carolina has an 8 game losing streak going - we only have lost 2 in a row. Granted, we've played 11 games to Carolina's 8, but they're looking like a more solid losing team than Buffalo. I hope they can turn it around.... Buffalo needs help. We can't even lose well.
Derrico Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 As others have pointed out Carolina has had some early season injuries and look considerably better than the Sabres in most stats categories (other than wins). I think the Canes will start to win some games soon. We're three points up (down?) with three more games played. It's a long year, I'm not ready to give up on this thing at Halloween.
Claude_Verret Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Just like in the NHL where they don't award the President's trophy in October, the CHL's Shart must be earned over the long haul. It will be a tough road, but we lack all the key pieces on the ice to help us earn the coveted Shart in the end. We want the Shart!
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) This may not be a playoff team until 2018. That would be a correct statement to make. Edited October 31, 2014 by LGR4GM
TrueBlueGED Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 So you are saying Risto is pretty much useless as well at this point? Or Myers? If it's Risto....then it proves even more there is plenty more suffering going forward and Guys like he, Rienhart, Zadorov, Grigorenko, and Armia take years to develop if ever. This may not be a playoff team until 2018. He's not useless in a limited role, but if he's forced to be top dog against the other team's best players then yea, that's not ending well at this point. This whole situation is why I was so mad at the Ehrhoff buyout. As far as playoffs in 2018, if the only thing Murray does is let our prospects develop, then it may well be longer than I anticipate. But I don't expect that to happen.
LastPommerFan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 It's harder for me to see the organization not even attempting to win (this year, last year) than at least attempting to field the best team and improve (next year and onward). So for me, the worst of the suffering is half over. As bad as this team is, they are better than the post-deadline team we had last year, and their results show it. They've matched their point total from march last year in three fewer games.
Derrico Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Since post deadline this is true. But currently this team is on a pace for 37 points. Last years team ended with 52 points and was dead last by a longshot. I think Carolina's disaster start to the season has some over-rating the points we're getting so far.
shrader Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Just like in the NHL where they don't award the President's trophy in October, the CHL's Shart must be earned over the long haul. It will be a tough road, but we lack all the key pieces on the ice to help us earn the coveted Shart in the end. We want the Shart! The shart sure does linger for quite a while.
LastPommerFan Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 Since post deadline this is true. But currently this team is on a pace for 37 points. Last years team ended with 52 points and was dead last by a longshot. I think Carolina's disaster start to the season has some over-rating the points we're getting so far. yeah, 82 games slightly better than march/april of last year is still way worse than last year as a whole. But... there is a lot of youth on this team, so potentially they could improve over the course of the season. right? right?
LGR4GM Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 yeah, 82 games slightly better than march/april of last year is still way worse than last year as a whole. But... there is a lot of youth on this team, so potentially they could improve over the course of the season. right? right? that is what you should be looking for over the course of this season.
Derrico Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 I would love to see some improvement from the young guys. I want it to be guys like Mez and Beno losing us games and not someone like Risto. Risto has been alright so far, I would like to see some progress from him as the year goes along.
nfreeman Posted October 31, 2014 Report Posted October 31, 2014 It's harder for me to see the organization not even attempting to win (this year, last year) than at least attempting to field the best team and improve (next year and onward). So for me, the worst of the suffering is half over. As bad as this team is, they are better than the post-deadline team we had last year, and their results show it. They've matched their point total from march last year in three fewer games. Well, as TBPhD has ably articulated, it sure seemed last summer like they were trying to put together a more respectable team. So far, not so good. It kinda begs the question: what if GMTM, for all his lovable plainspokenness and ZFG attitude...isn't the right guy? What if he's one of those guys who's always sure he's right but is actually wrong most of the time? Way too soon to evaluate, of course, but there are valid questions about a number of his moves so far: - extension for Nolan - Reinhart - McNabb - Ehrhoff - Gionta - Moulson It's not impossible that a year from now, most or all of those moves will look pretty bad -- especially if the Sabres end up drafting #3 or #4 in June. I like TM, and I'm optimistic about all of the moves listed above, but still -- this might not turn out the way we're hoping.
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