Eleven Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Well that's just great. Bears. Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I don't feel safe on a message board moderated by a woman. I hear their periods attract bears. So, wait. nfreeman is a chick? What the hell has been going on around here this Summer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Don't judge me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 I don't feel safe on a message board moderated by a woman. I hear their periods attract bears. Yeah, but if there's a call about a bad post at 3 a.m., I trust chz to take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah, but if there's a call about a bad post at 3 a.m., I trust chz to take it. It'll probably be one of mine at that hour. :w00t: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted July 22, 2014 Report Share Posted July 22, 2014 It'll probably be one of mine at that hour. :w00t: haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted July 23, 2014 Report Share Posted July 23, 2014 And you also know that the reason we have a waiting list is because the team is going to be good again, and people don't want to go back to the end of the line. It's not an argument. It's just a probability. Look at the lineup that Drane posted upthread. Does that look like a last place team? I went to "the back of the line," although I don't plan on being in line ever again. It just became not worth it; I have TV. Im thinking like GoDD, I'll just save for the future playoff games, like I used to. Also, I can see Drane's lineup competing for last place. ABSOLUTELY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 Apparently this is going to be the cover of the sports section tomorrow: Someone here is going to feel ripped off. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 I just shed a tear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted October 5, 2014 Report Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Apparently this is going to be the cover of the sports section tomorrow: Someone here is going to feel ripped off. :P Beautiful. :thumbsup: A fair article that captures both sides of the tank argument nicely, hopefully everyone who has or will post stuff about players being in on the tank will read it. I'm in 100% agreement Mr. Cannon. I would be very disappointed with another heroic run towards eighth place only to fall to 10th,” said Cannon, the season-ticket holder from Tonawanda. “At this point, being so close to one of those guys it would make zero sense to not see this rebuild through. Edited October 5, 2014 by Claude_Verret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Holy #@$% - does someone at the Buffalo News read this forum? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Holy #@$% - does someone at the Buffalo News read this forum? LOL Almost certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Almost certainly. I demand royalties. That is a nice cover though. I like it. Edited October 7, 2014 by IKnowPhysics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-man Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I believe I once saw John Vogl retweet an @sabrespace tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Some folks think that the players and coaching staff are locked in some sort of dilemma- try to win and botch the rebuild or try to lose and abandon, at least temporarily, the competitive sportsmanship of the game. But that's not the case. The players and coaches will -and should- try their hardest to win games. It's what they need to do to justify their jobs. It's what they need to do to entertain fans that spend their hard-earned salaries to go to home games. It's what they need to do maintain a non-toxic, competitive culture in the locker room. It's what they need to do to skate off the ice with their heads held high, knowing they tried. It's what sportsmen need to do. The players and coaches pushing their effort doesn't mean the tank is lost. It's not the players and coaches that will define the nature of this year's rebuild. Far and away, the person commanding the tank is Tim Murray. Murray has the power over the roster. He commands how much talent ends up on the ice each night. He will make the decision to throttle the available talent. And why shouldn't he? Every single player in this organization from top to bottom is effectively skating in a year-long tryout to get onto the team that follows this team. Murray should be allowed to, and probably will, take long looks at lots of different personnel arrangements on the active roster. And there are definitely going to be games when those arrangements don't translate into wins. Any move to keep players in Rochester (or Juniors) can be easily justified with the motivation of long term development. Additionally, he has the ability to gut a significant portion of the team at any point in time before the trade deadline, if he feels it's the best long term move for the organization. Stewart, Stafford, Mitchell, Kaleta, Meszaros, Benoit, Enroth, and Neuvirth are all UFAs. Some of those players, Murray has already attempted to trade. He could subtract some of those players for assets that have absolutely zero return on this year's team record, and whether that move would be made to tank, legitimately better the team, or both, it simply wouldn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Well said. The players and coaches absolutely will be trying to win every game. I can't even imagine TN not or else he would likely up and quit. But as you said, this comes down to Tim Murray. Who in the past has openly stated he can adjust his team at the trade deadline to ensure a successful tank. In Tim I trust and I think the Grigo case is only the first in sending guys to Roch in favour of 'player development'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) Why do we need to tank two years in a row? The Blackhawks' "Tank" season was 2006-2007, and they finished 5th in the Central, with the 4th worst overall record in the league with 71 points, which earned them the number 1 pick The rebuilding was 2007-08 with new management. They finished 3rd in the Central with a jump up to 88 points in the first season after the management change, did not qualify for the playoffs 2008-09, they finished 2nd in the Central, with 104 points. They made it into the 3rd round of the playoffs, being defeated in the Conference Final by the Wings 2009-10, 112 points, finished 1st in the Central, and won the Stanley Cup. So, using the Blackhawks rebuild as a model, 2013-14 was the Hawks 2006-07 This year 2014-15 - SHOULD show improvement - up to the 80 point mark, Then 2015-16, we should be making the playoffs. I can't believe GMTM isn't fully aware of the Blackhawks' schedule for a rebuild. I would think he believes he can turn this team around in a similar time frame. Why do we need or want two tank years in a row? Actually, 3, because 2012-13 was pretty dismal too! 80 points this season would seem like an enormous improvement compared to last season; we won't be hitting the playoffs but it won't be a tank either - at least I hope not. Because you ignore 2005-2006. They finished 3rd worst in the league behind St Louis (Erik Johnson) Pittsburgh (Jordan Staal) and took Jonathan Toews with the third overall pick. Toews returned to college at North Dakota and the Hawks finished dead last the following year where they took Kane. During that season after the NCAA's they signed Toews, signed Kane and were on their way. We got one draft in with the second overall, now we need one more with an elite talent and we can be on our way. Edited October 7, 2014 by 3putt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Buffalo will be a bottom 10 team heading into the trade deadline. TM will move pending UFA's Stafford, Stewart, Mitchell, Mezaros, Benoit, and probably try to move a goalie since both will be pending UFA's. Gionta will be injured by then, so will Myers, and they'll sink to the bottom like a rock by the time the season ends. I'm not worried about it, not one bit, TM knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Well said. The players and coaches absolutely will be trying to win every game. I can't even imagine TN not or else he would likely up and quit. But as you said, this comes down to Tim Murray. Who in the past has openly stated he can adjust his team at the trade deadline to ensure a successful tank. In Tim I trust and I think the Grigo case is only the first in sending guys to Roch in favour of 'player development'. All the tank contenders will be in full fire sale mode at the deadline. I think the key with GMTM, as IKP pointed out, is he can and will start dismantling the team well before the deadline if necessary. We already have a plethora of picks and prospects so it's OK if he doesn't maximize return by selling early. Teams in weak hockey markets would get crucified and suffer even more at the gate if they start selling off key assets well before the deadline. In Buffalo GMTM will care not, I trust in him fully that his eyes will always remain on the prize in 2014-15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 I picked 2007 as a starting point for the Blackhawks when the new management took over, and Rocky Wirtz overturned his father's applecart and started the actual rebuilding progress, by hiring a new president and coach within a year's time or so. So I was equating 2006-07 with our 2012-13 season, and 2007-08 as our 2013-14 season. They had 5 tank years of not making the playoffs compared to our 3 so far. But picks are only as good as the management doing the picking. The Hawks didn't start to make effective drafts and trades (other than Toews) until Rocky Wirtz took over after his father passed, and within a year of that is when Joe Quenville was brought on board too, before the start of the 08-09 season. With the changes to the team so far, I just can't see them staying below 60 points for 2014-15. I think they'll be better than that, so I'm guessing we'll see progress starting this season with a 70-80 point season, and hopefully the team continuing to improve moving forward. Again you are wrong. The current roster was put together primarily under Dale Tallon and Old Man Wirtz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Because you ignore 2005-2006. They finished 3rd worst in the league behind St Louis (Erik Johnson) Pittsburgh (Jordan Staal) and took Jonathan Toews with the third overall pick. Toews returned to college at North Dakota and the Hawks finished dead last the following year where they took Kane. During that season after the NCAA's they signed Toews, signed Kane and were on their way. We got one draft in with the second overall, now we need one more with an elite talent and we can be on our way. But we also have Ristolainen the 8th overall, Grigorenko the 12th overall, Girgensons the 14th overall, Zadorov the 16th overall, Pysyk the 23rd overall. Myers the 12th overall, Ennis the 26th overall, plus whatever we add with the 3 first rounders this year. I want McDavid or Eichel but honestly, we don't have to get them to win, it would just help justify the suffering and elevate the talent level faster. I picked 2007 as a starting point for the Blackhawks when the new management took over, and Rocky Wirtz overturned his father's applecart and started the actual rebuilding progress, by hiring a new president and coach within a year's time or so. So I was equating 2006-07 with our 2012-13 season, and 2007-08 as our 2013-14 season. They had 5 tank years of not making the playoffs compared to our 3 so far. But picks are only as good as the management doing the picking. The Hawks didn't start to make effective drafts and trades (other than Toews) until Rocky Wirtz took over after his father passed, and within a year of that is when Joe Quenville was brought on board too, before the start of the 08-09 season. Before he took over they drafted Cam Barker, Dave Bolland, Bryan Bickell, Brent Seabroke, Corey Crawford, Anton Babchuk, Duncan Keith that is 2002-2006. So they were drafting decently before that. Toews and Kane definitely have helped and earned them those Stanley Cups but some of the supporting cast and in Keith's case, major player, were drafted later in the 1st/2nd rounds and contributed to their winning ways. IF the Sabres draft 4th overall this year (I think it likely) than they will still get a very solid player (Pavel Zacha?) who will be an effective all star in his own right given the time to develop. We don't have to have McDavid or Eichel but they would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 It will be interesting to see which teams cash in their chips and start the fire sale early. There will be a few teams with playoff aspirations that will get off to rough starts and have to make hard decisions. If we are near 500 at Christmas, it will be too late. i think you can kiss McEichel goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 It will be interesting to see which teams cash in their chips and start the fire sale early. There will be a few teams with playoff aspirations that will get off to rough starts and have to make hard decisions. If we are near 500 at Christmas, it will be too late. i think you can kiss McEichel goodbye. I think Calgary, Edmonton, Carolina, and perhaps Florida can out tank the Sabres this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 (edited) All the tank contenders will be in full fire sale mode at the deadline. I think the key with GMTM, as IKP pointed out, is he can and will start dismantling the team well before the deadline if necessary. Tim Murray to other bottom-ten GMs at the trade deadline: "Oh, you think tanking is your ally. But you merely adopted the tank. I was born in it, moulded by it. I didn't see the victories until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but BLINDING! The losses betray you BECAUSE THEY BELONG TO ME! I will show you where I have made my home while preparing to bring justice. Then I will break you." Edited October 7, 2014 by IKnowPhysics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoner Posted October 7, 2014 Report Share Posted October 7, 2014 Holy #@$% - does someone at the Buffalo News read this forum? LOL Right, no one else could have conjured up the image of a tank in this context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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