Trade Ideas: Summer 2014

[dudacek]

 

 

Now it's a definite no from Winnipeg.

 

I agree, but Bogosian still has as much to prove as Hodgson does.

Neither has matched the junior hype.

[thewookie1]

I wonder if Nashville would be interested in Hodgson and/or Stafford, both can score and Nashville certainly lacks that ability. I want their 1st rounder.

 

 

 

Myers + Hodgson for E.Kane + Z. Bogosian

 

Not a bad idea, though we'dneed to move a RWer then.

[Hoss]

Disclaimer: This has about a 0.0000000001% chance of happening.

 

A few writers have speculated that teams might start to see what Columbus would want in a deal for Ryan Johansen... I'd give one of Risto/Zadorov, STL's first, our second and Hodgson for him. Not sure that gets it done, but he'd be the most attractive trade piece in the league if he were available.

[Eleven]

i think i would too, and I LOVE zadorov. it leads back to the debate we had before this past draft about drafting defensemen high, and why so many didn't want Ekblad -- i think many would prefer the young potential top forward than the defenseman. but it also has a lot to do with the depth and needs of our team currently

 

 

Yep.

 

This!!!

 

My Untouchables :

 

1. Z.G.

2. Zad

3. Risto

 

Why?

[Randall Flagg]

Disclaimer: This has about a 0.0000000001% chance of happening.

 

A few writers have speculated that teams might start to see what Columbus would want in a deal for Ryan Johansen... I'd give one of Risto/Zadorov, STL's first, our second and Hodgson for him. Not sure that gets it done, but he'd be the most attractive trade piece in the league if he were available.

I trust your valuing of players a lot more than my own. Had no idea Johansen could be worth close to that much. What do you think his ceiling is, and what level is he likely to hit?

[IKnowPhysics]

Disclaimer: This has about a 0.0000000001% chance of happening.

 

A few writers have speculated that teams might start to see what Columbus would want in a deal for Ryan Johansen... I'd give one of Risto/Zadorov, STL's first, our second and Hodgson for him. Not sure that gets it done, but he'd be the most attractive trade piece in the league if he were available.

 

That's a lot for Johansen. He's good. But that's a lot for Johansen. I'd do Risto/Zad and STL 1st. Or STL 1st and Hodgson.

[darksabre]

 

 

 

Yep.

 

 

 

Why?

 

Because of my avatar obviously.

[beerme1]

 

 

This is interesting to me, because I don't think you are alone.

Rasmus was drafted ahead of him has achieved more than him, is further ahead in his development, and is ranked higher by most scouting services.

Yet I read fans posting how Risto should start the season in the minors and Nikita should be with the big club.

 

I love the kid, but I am scared we are close to creating the concept of Nikita Zadorov.

 

Scouts can get lucky and many times make mistakes. This years example will be Lemieux falling to the second round.

 

 

 

We already have. I'm sure it predates it, but let's call it the NcNabb Effect (NME). Young kid on D throws a few checks and suddenly he's the next Scott Stevens (but cleaner).

 

This is funny to me. Nikita can go end to end with the puck like Paul Coffey and take people out hard like Scott Stevens. I have referred to Nikita as our 10 year + Chris Pronger. Compare him to McNabb? LOL! Ya he gets his hits in, but is mostly clueless and cant skate worth a damn compared to Nikita. The first time I saw Mcnabb hit the ice it was face first as fell stepping on to it. You need to better than compae McNabb to Nikita. Especially if he's a legend!

 

Myers for E. Kane? Do we do it? Do the Jets?

 

I do. They don't.

[Hoss]

I trust your valuing of players a lot more than my own. Had no idea Johansen could be worth close to that much. What do you think his ceiling is, and what level is he likely to hit?

 

I think he'll be a consistent PPG player. Something like 35/50/85 could be realistic. He just out up 30/33/63 at 21. He's 6'3 225. He's a big body who should become a star in this league.

[Lanny]

We already have. I'm sure it predates it, but let's call it the NcNabb Effect (NME). Young kid on D throws a few checks and suddenly he's the next Scott Stevens (but cleaner).

Didn't this effect exist with Weber after the 07-08 season as well?

[Hoss]

 

 

That's a lot for Johansen. He's good. But that's a lot for Johansen. I'd do Risto/Zad and STL 1st. Or STL 1st and Hodgson.

 

Columbus would laugh. If we really want him they would point out to us that they can lock up our first next offseason if we REALLY want him and sign him to an offer sheet (not happening). Hes worth a current young NHL player, an elite prospect, a first and another piece (mid-level prospect or 2nd rounder).

[IKnowPhysics]

Columbus would laugh. If we really want him they would point out to us that they can lock up our first next offseason if we REALLY want him and sign him to an offer sheet (not happening). Hes worth a current young NHL player, an elite prospect, a first and another piece (mid-level prospect or 2nd rounder).

 

That's three first round picks and a high 2nd. That's almost the price of a top-flight offer sheet anyways. Any three of those things would easily net us a pick in the 2-5 overall range. So, nope, there's no deal to be made.

[Hoss]

 

 

That's three first round picks and a high 2nd. That's almost the price of a top-flight offer sheet anyways. Any three of those things would easily net us a pick in the 2-5 overall range. So, nope, there's no deal to be made.

 

So focused on saying we could get a pick in the 2-5 range... Why not get a player who is already playing to the level expected from those picks?

 

You have to give a lot for a player who has played as a definite top-six center at that size before turning 22. A LOT.

 

RJ was taken 4th overall and has lived up to what you expect from that slot so far.

Zadorov was taken 16th and has lived up to what you'd expect from that position in the very limited time so far (and despite my, and other posters' love affair with Nikita, he hasn't done anything to definitively say he is worth higher than his slot). So what would it take to get from 16 to 4, if you want to put it in terms of draft picks?

Edited July 10, 2014 by Tankalicious

[thewookie1]

Zadorov should be untouchable at least until what he does in a stretch of games. Trading him now would be incompetent seeing as he could be an elite D-man and he's already shown promise.

[Hoss]

Zadorov should be untouchable at least until what he does in a stretch of games. Trading him now would be incompetent seeing as he could be an elite D-man and he's already shown promise.

 

We shouldn't trade an unknown from a position of strength for a known (or nearly known considering it was just one full season) player at a position of strength that fits the mold of everything we've ever wanted? Okay. Zadorov has already reached the "concept" status mentioned.

 

It's silly to talk about because neither player will be dealt, but labeling last year's 16th pick untouchable because he's an unknown doesn't make much sense.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Tankalicious

[IKnowPhysics]

So focused on saying we could get a pick in the 2-5 range... Why not get a player who is already playing to the level expected from those picks?

 

You have to give a lot for a player who has played as a definite top-six center at that size before turning 22. A LOT.

 

Because he's not worth that much. You could draft the first rounder or keep Risto/Zad or keep Hodgson or keep the high 2nd rounder, and still trade for a player of that caliber or close enough to him that you're not pissing away value. Additionally, we're not in a hurry. We have the luxury of having plenty of time to let our prospects develop into greater assets- we not only don't have to leverage the future for instant results, it would be foolish to do so.

 

Also, one 30 goal season does not a proven player make.

[thewookie1]

 

 

We shouldn't trade an unknown from a position of strength for a known (or nearly known considering it was just one full season) player at a position of strength that fits the mold of everything we've ever wanted? Okay. Zadorov has already reached the "concept" status mentioned.

 

It's silly to talk about because neither player will be dealt, but labeling last year's 16th pick untouchable because he's an unknown doesn't make much sense.

 

I understand what you're saying but is Johansson a #1 elite center? If he is, then maybe he's worth it. But I'd rather not be killing the the tank to get another elite #2 center. Zadorov won't effect the tank and I'm not sold on trading 3 prospects with high skill for 1

[dudacek]

There is this irresistible lure to slap a next-big-thing sticker to certain young players as they start to emerge.

I'm going to call it the Hockeysfuture.com syndrome, where every 21-year-old prospect is a messiah and every 25-year-old veteran is an over-the-hill disappointment.

You can swing for the fences with Johansen or Kane picturing there is a Toews there ready to emerge.

But a Tyler Myers is more likely. Real GMs have to be very careful or they will look like Mike Milbury.

[Hoss]

There is this irresistible lure to slap a next-big-thing sticker to certain young players as they start to emerge.

I'm going to call it the Hockeysfuture.com syndrome, where every 21-year-old prospect is a messiah and every 25-year-old veteran is an over-the-hill disappointment.

You can swing for the fences with Johansen or Kane picturing there is a Toews there ready to emerge.

But a Tyler Myers is more likely. Real GMs have to be very careful or they will look like Mike Milbury.

 

Myers is more likely to emerge than a 6'3 230 pounder who just put up 30/33/63 and stayed healthy the whole season? Only because Johansen has already emerged.

 

Johansen also had 6 points in 6 playoff games this year. Tough to do in your first playoff series... as a 21 year old.

 

 

I'm not trying to sell off our guys. I want to keep them around. I'm just giving an example of the exact type of player we've craved while providing an example of a player I WOULD give up the guys many label as untouchable.

 

 

He's got it all. Before exploding offensively he was considering to be a very good defensive forward. Now he's got both. He took nearly 55% of his even strength faceoffs in the DEFENSIVE zone despite his offensive numbers.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Tankalicious

[dudacek]

Myers is more likely to emerge than a 6'3 230 pounder who just put up 30/33/63 and stayed healthy the whole season? Only because Johansen has already emerged.

Just like Myers emerged in his rookie season? Because that is what I am talking about.

There isn't a poster on here (well, maybe Drane with the Marfans) who would have traded him that summer for the kind of offers you floated for Johansen. And there's not a poster who would not have regretted failing to pull the trigger.

There are very few sure things.

[Hoss]

Just like Myers emerged in his rookie season? Because that is what I am talking about.

There isn't a poster on here (well, maybe Drane with the Marfans) who would have traded him that summer for the kind of offers you floated for Johansen. And there's not a poster who would not have regretted failing to pull the trigger.

There are very few sure things.

 

He played at a decent level his first two seasons and then took a huge jump in his third year. There's a difference between that and having a very good rookie year. Of course there aren't many sure things... But I don't understand how that comes into the discussion.

 

If Johansen was in Toronto or another big city he'd be all over the place.

[dudacek]

I'm not bashing Johansen. I like the kid a lot. But there's no guarantee he hasn't already peaked.

 

Thomas Vanek looked like the second coming of Richard Martin in his second season.

He's never matched those numbers.

 

Hell, all of Rico's best years were used up before he turned 25.

Edited July 10, 2014 by dudacek

[Hoss]

I'm not bashing Johansen. I like the kid a lot. But there's no guarantee he hasn't already peaked.

 

Thomas Vanek looked like the second coming of Richard Martin in his second season.

He's never matched those numbers.

 

Hell, all of Rico's best years were used up before he turned 25.

 

Sure, but that's highly unlikely.

[beerme1]

There is this irresistible lure to slap a next-big-thing sticker to certain young players as they start to emerge.

I'm going to call it the Hockeysfuture.com syndrome, where every 21-year-old prospect is a messiah and every 25-year-old veteran is an over-the-hill disappointment.

You can swing for the fences with Johansen or Kane picturing there is a Toews there ready to emerge.

But a Tyler Myers is more likely. Real GMs have to be very careful or they will look like Mike Milbury.

 

Just like Myers emerged in his rookie season? Because that is what I am talking about.

There isn't a poster on here (well, maybe Drane with the Marfans) who would have traded him that summer for the kind of offers you floated for Johansen. And there's not a poster who would not have regretted failing to pull the trigger.

There are very few sure things.

 

 

These are quality points made. Particularly the latter as I agree if there were a deal there we would all regret it. Remember Chara though. I wonder if any fans regret that he WAS traded.

[dudacek]

Sure, but that's highly unlikely.

Like Vanek? Myers? Drew Stafford? Connolly? The Sabres have a long history of teases.

 

I'd certainly take Johansen over Risto, or Hodgson, but there is a reasonable chance one of those guys will end up having a better career than Johansen. There is a small chance both will, plus you are throwing in two good picks.

 

I know I'm being argumentative here — I think Risto, Hodgson and a second (but not the first) is fair value.

 

It's not really your post that set me off. I'm just a little tired over posters (on other websites more than here) who value prospects over real NHL hockey players.

Edited July 10, 2014 by dudacek