OT - The Economics of Buffalo

[HopefulFuture]

IMHO communities in the Rust Belt have to get beyond this rose-colored view. Sure, things were more prosperous and more people lived in places like Buffalo and Bradford, PA. So what? It's the past. It's gone. People here will openly tell you how great the oil boom times were. Yep, they remember living in the late 1800s and early 1900s. People were packed onto Main St. shoulder to shoulder five deep! Yep, and there were saloons, ###### houses and shoot outs during Prohibition too. Every time I see (edit: old photos of…) our gorgeous hillsides, which now draw tourists and hikers, stripped bare and dotted with oil derricks, I think "good riddance." (Of course there's still a huge polluting refinery in the middle of the valley and oil and gas drilling are ongoing, including limited fracking.)

 

Well, the title of the thread is "The Economics of Buffalo". With that said, the past of this region is directly tied to it's future, whether individuals choose to accept that or not, it makes it no less of a reality. We have the highest cancer rates in the nation, and that's directly tied to our past. We have petro-chemical brownfield sites all over the place, and that's directly tied to our past. We haven't updated our skilled labor force to any extent at all and I'll counter that with the exodus still continues to happen, albeit to a lesser extent (hey, so many already left, the numbers were bound to tail off eventually).

 

But the most important aspect of it all is what is left here. New York state mandates, a state government that sends roughly 65% of it's resources to the great 3 county region surrounding the mouth of the Hudson River. We have ineffective representatives from the WNY region not always because they are just plain morons, but because the region has been largely passed and no longer holds it's significance as it once did as the gateway from the great lakes or the electrical center of the world. More recently, the purge of industry from the area was never truly replaced. Oh sure we can open a thousand mom and pop small companies, but the truth is they will never amass the wealth needed to but more than a minor ding in the mess that was left here.

 

Looking at through rose-colored glasses? I don't think I am, just calling it as it is.

But hey, even though I can admit the truth to these realities, I live here. But the thread isn't so much on the small beauty's left here, it's on The Economics of Buffalo.

[Weave]

Ah. I'm not coming across correctly. I am not attempting to claim a moral superiority here.

 

It is all about the connectedness. I do not believe the decision to forfeit more profit in favor of a better community is a result of being morally superior and selfless. It is still self interest, but as a result of that connectedness, we view our selves in a wider lens. Our communities are part of us, so by bettering them, we are bettering ourselves. Solely a result of being raised connected to everyone and everything around us all the time. We are no more "moral" and not less self centered than any previous generation. Simply a different sense of self.

 

I'm not convinced that any of this is a generational thing at all.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

I'm not convinced that any of this is a generational thing at all.

 

I'm not sure what your this is. (Too many threads in this thread.)

[Weave]

I'm not sure what your this is. (Too many threads in this thread.)

 

"This" was what I quoted. Or more generally your recent string of posts, that this sense of community is a generational thing.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

"This" was what I quoted. Or more generally your recent string of posts, that this sense of community is a generational thing.

 

Do you believe that being raised in a world with email, instant messaging, Facebook, and message boards, and the rest of the internet would affect a persons sense of community and self?

[Weave]

Do you believe that being raised in a world with email, instant messaging, Facebook, and message boards, and the rest of the internet would affect a persons sense of community and self?

 

Every jump in communication technology has changed how we communicate and interact with others. But I don't think it has changed the overall desire to be a part of the community we live in and interact with.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

Every jump in communication technology has changed how we communicate and interact with others. But I don't think it has changed the overall desire to be a part of the community we live in and interact with.

 

I guess my reasoning hinges on the assumption that the internet is a massively different leap than other communications tech. Simply in terms of magnitude and ubiquity. In the past the community we live in and interact with had degraded almost down to the size of the family. This was largely the result of suburbanization. The internet blew that up almost instantaneously. Community is so much more now, and people born after 1982 essentially have only memories of this new reality.

[Weave]

I guess my reasoning hinges on the assumption that the internet is a massively different leap than other communications tech. Simply in terms of magnitude and ubiquity. In the past the community we live in and interact with had degraded almost down to the size of the family. This was largely the result of suburbanization. The internet blew that up almost instantaneously. Community is so much more now, and people born after 1982 essentially have only memories of this new reality.

 

And I think that this line of reasoning only works in limited ways to the suburbs. I spent my formative years in the burbs. But I remember block parties, fund raisers for the volunteer fire hall, church picnics, and events at the youth center. Not to mention all the PTA moms, cub scout packs, and neighborhood get-togethers. And now that I live in a small community I find that the sense of greater community is even larger out here, and 90% of the places around me right now (other than homes) have no internet presence.

 

I think you are generalizing way too much based on what you remember of your youth experience.

Edited May 31, 2014 by weave

[Taro T]

I guess my reasoning hinges on the assumption that the internet is a massively different leap than other communications tech. Simply in terms of magnitude and ubiquity. In the past the community we live in and interact with had degraded almost down to the size of the family. This was largely the result of suburbanization. The internet blew that up almost instantaneously. Community is so much more now, and people born after 1982 essentially have only memories of this new reality.

:lol: :rolleyes:

 

(Sorry, GCoP, I couldn't decide which emoticon was more appropriate due to my old age and lack of growing up w/ the internet so I used both. Hopefully one of u Millenials can help me out w/ choosing the right 1. ;))

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

And I think that this line of reasoning only works in limited ways to the suburbs. I spent my formative years in the burbs. But I remember block parties, fund raisers for the volunteer fire hall, church picnics, and events at the youth center. Not to mention all the PTA moms, cub scout packs, and neighborhood get-togethers. And now that I live in a small community I find that the sense of greater community is even larger out here, and 90% of the places around me right now (other than homes) have no internet presence.

 

I think you are generalizing way too much based on what you remember of your youth experience.

 

I'm talking past myself here. Millenials, as a whole, do not have a stronger sense of community with their neighbors. It's a different relationship between their self interests and the interests of the community. If anything I think we have less sense of civic engagement as a public service as previous generations have. We don't serve others because it's a good thing to do. We have a broader sense of community. And we engage with it in more aspects of our lives, like business.

 

And none of this is based on my experience. I had an... odd... Childhood. This is my analysis of the research on Millenials. I'm just barely in that group. Right on the line in 1982.

 

And no, Taro, I'm not going to teach you how to use emoticons.

[Weave]

I'm talking past myself here. Millenials, as a whole, do not have a stronger sense of community with their neighbors. It's a different relationship between their self interests and the interests of the community. If anything I think we have less sense of civic engagement as a public service as previous generations have. We don't serve others because it's a good thing to do. We have a broader sense of community. And we engage with it in more aspects of our lives, like business.

 

And none of this is based on my experience. I had an... odd... Childhood. This is my analysis of the research on Millenials. I'm just barely in that group. Right on the line in 1982.

 

And no, Taro, I'm not going to teach you how to use emoticons.

 

Now I have no idea what point you are trying to get across. This started out as a conversation about millenials who "look for something more [re: than profits] as we build our businesses, wanting to add something to the community around us", and now if I am interpreting accurately, you are describing a larger community for millenials. I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Edited May 31, 2014 by weave

[SwampD]

I'm talking past myself here. Millenials, as a whole, do not have a stronger sense of community with their neighbors. It's a different relationship between their self interests and the interests of the community. If anything I think we have less sense of civic engagement as a public service as previous generations have. We don't serve others because it's a good thing to do. We have a broader sense of community. And we engage with it in more aspects of our lives, like business.

 

And none of this is based on my experience. I had an... odd... Childhood. This is my analysis of the research on Millenials. I'm just barely in that group. Right on the line in 1982.

 

And no, Taro, I'm not going to teach you how to use emoticons.

I would think that you Millenials also have less of a sense of self than those of us that are older. I see it in my nieces and nephews. Almost everything they do, almost on a minute by minute basis, they do in terms of how it will be received by those that they post it to immediately following. It's not very healthy IMHO.

 

Is that what you mean?

[LastPommerFan]

 

I would think that you Millenials also have less of a sense of self than those of us that are older. I see it in my nieces and nephews. Almost everything they do, almost on a minute by minute basis, they do in terms of how it will be received by those that they post it to immediately following. It's not very healthy IMHO.

 

Is that what you mean?

 

Yes. Thank you. This.

 

And agreed. We Millenials largely don't have the tools to deal with it. But I think one affect will be that profit, while still being critical, will be just one of several drivers of decisions for this generation.

 

 

 

Now I have no idea what point you are trying to get across. This started out as a conversation about millenials who "look for something more [re: than profits] as we build our businesses, wanting to add something to the community around us", and now if I am interpreting accurately, you are describing a larger community for millenials. I'm not sure where you are going with this.

 

See above, it's the relationship between community and self. That's what I'm trying to get at. Lots of this first internet generation looks at the community as the self. And as I wrote, for better or for worse.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[SwampD]

Yes. Thank you. This.

 

And agreed. We Millenials largely don't have the tools to deal with it. But I think one affect will be that profit, while still being critical, will be just one of several drivers of decisions for this generation.

 

 

 

See above, it's the relationship between community and self. That's what I'm trying to get at. Lots of this first internet generation looks at the community as the self. And as I wrote, for better or for worse.

We are becoming the Borg,… or are you to young to get even that reference?

[LastPommerFan]

 

We are becoming the Borg,… or are you to young to get even that reference?

 

Resistance is futile.

[Taro T]

I'm talking past myself here. Millenials, as a whole, do not have a stronger sense of community with their neighbors. It's a different relationship between their self interests and the interests of the community. If anything I think we have less sense of civic engagement as a public service as previous generations have. We don't serve others because it's a good thing to do. We have a broader sense of community. And we engage with it in more aspects of our lives, like business.

 

And none of this is based on my experience. I had an... odd... Childhood. This is my analysis of the research on Millenials. I'm just barely in that group. Right on the line in 1982.

 

And no, Taro, I'm not going to teach you how to use emoticons.

:( :cry:

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

This is funny stuff....

 

Linked-in or whatever the F it is.....that is the snapshot of millennials...or whatever the F they're called.

 

Who the hell advertises openly they are looking for another job, or opportunities somewhere else when they are currently employed? If I was a boss...I would fire every last one of those suckers......sadly, that would be 70%.

 

We're doomed people....we're doomed....

 

Buffalo is a great place because there is enough old-school common sense here and cheap and stable enough pricing to "be cool", when the diner gets robbed.