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Official 2015 NHL Draft Thread

LGR4GM

By LGR4GM
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LastPommerFan First Liner

LastPommerFan

Posted
Posted

I find your continued promotion of this strawman distasteful horseshit. Nobody has said this, and I'd like to think you're a smart enough guy to be able to vehemently disagree with the tanking approach without needing to build a strawman to tear down.

 

And I have no idea on earth how you consider the tank to be a quick fix or the easy way out. The tank strategy can take several years to even get back to being mediocre, and you have to watch some truly horrid hockey in the meantime...I fundamentally do not understand how that's easy or quick.

 

First, Nobody never said anything of the sort.

 

Secondly, several posters were chanting "Mediocrity Forever" during the winning streak.

 

This is no strawman, but It's like joining the Allies in WWII and deciding to only fight against the Italians.

z-man Prospect

z-man

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Posted

Now I don't believe this is that useful without looking at the individual picks, but that would take way too much time. This is just a quick chart with highlights to show the visual relationship between where a teams top 5 picks were and where they won the cup post-lockout. Pretty damn fascinating. BUT, the list below it shows that only 1 of the top 8 "pick getters" has won a cup.

 

top_fives.jpg

 

Looks like I missed highlighting Carolina's 03 pick.

Johnny DangerFace Second Liner

Johnny DangerFace

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I still think he should have been traded. I know why they let him go but letting a solid player go for nothing is just plain stupid. He could have got another pick or two out of any deal. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have landed another second or third rounder for the guy.

 

There were massive cap penalty implications in the future if he wasn't bought out. It was a financial decision for the team salary

Sabres Fan in NS Hall of Famer

Sabres Fan in NS

Posted
Posted

I am against the very notion of tanking.

 

That said, I believe the *tank* (for lack of a better word) ended last season with the dumping of a vast majority of the vets / UFA players for picks and / or prospects.

 

The draft happened and went very well. We signed some savy vets to help mentor the young players. Our young defenders look like studs. Our young forwards are starting to come into their own.

 

Yep, this season is the first that we see the rebuild in action.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

First, Nobody never said anything of the sort.

 

Secondly, several posters were chanting "Mediocrity Forever" during the winning streak.

 

This is no strawman, but It's like joining the Allies in WWII and deciding to only fight against the Italians.

 

Anyone with credibility, or is it sort of like saying "people say Pominville is the greatest captain in Sabres history" and pointing to your posts as support? :P

Crusader1969 First Liner

Crusader1969

Posted
Posted

Don't step up to the plate because you might not hit a homerun? Don't step into the ring because you might lose the fight? If you can't be virtually guaranteed of winning a Cup then don't even try? I find the whole "lose on purpose" mentality that so many here espouse incredibly distasteful. It's looking for the easy way out and IMHO is a poor way to think about life in general. Scratch and claw and fight and show some pride and dignity. Do the best you can with what you have. Do it the hard way rather than trying to find a lazy quick fix. There is no certainty in life other than the effort you put in right now.

 

We can't win a Cup without McDavid or Eichel? Horseshit.

 

<end of rant>

no one has ever said this - its about improving the odds of winning a cup. I don't believe anyone ever wanted to players to lose on purpose but this is a team that more often than not gets outshot and completely out played - I dont want this team to miss out in improving its talent base because of a UFA goalie on a hot streak.
LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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  • Author
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So back to the draft.

 

Ivan Provorov has really climbed up rankings recently and could be a top 10 pick. He is hailed for a good shot, excellent IQ, and fluid skating. I mention him because while we all like our current 1st round defenders, I think in a draft that is deep like this adding another one is a great thing. Ideally depending on how things turn out I would like the sabres to go forward, forward, defender in the first round. I think we could add a lot of talent up top and also give us a little more cushion on the back end considering that Pysyk and McCabe are having what I would deem an off year thus far. Just some draft strategies to mull over.

SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

Posted
Posted

Another straw man that has to go away is the "if we end up 9th we will be mediocre forever." It's just not true. There are plenty of teams that finished 9th, or thereabouts, and got better.

 

The only reason it keeps coming up is because we were subjected to Darcy for 16 years. When we lost in the first round or didn't even make the playoffs, he wouldn't do anything to make the team better. He would just say things like, "we just need our core to mature" or "we already have 2 top 20 centers".

 

It is possible to make moves and get better even if you end up 9th.

spndnchz All Star

spndnchz

Posted
Posted

Tank vs. No Tank now joins the pantheon of great SabreSpace debates Is Miller Elite? and Who's Out There Better Than Lindy? and Is Chz A Morbidly Obese Long Distance Trucker?

 

Well done, chaps, well done.

 

Maybe. Dunno. No.

SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

Posted
Posted

I also want to say the the start date of this thread tells me all I need to know about how the Sabres are going about this tank. Tanks should be a trade deadline decision, not a multi-season poo-fling-a-thon.

Claude_Verret First Liner

Claude_Verret

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I am fine with people supporting the tank. I am not fine with them (not saying you are) telling everyone it's the only way to win the cup and we don't understand blah blah.

 

This is one the most tired strawmen out there. Who here is saying it is/was the only option? Seriously, I don't recall anyone ever arguing that.

SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

Posted
Posted

This is one the most tired strawmen out there. Who here is saying it is/was the only option? Seriously, I don't recall anyone ever arguing that.

This is a joke, right?

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

Posted
  • Author
Posted

This is one the most tired strawmen out there. Who here is saying it is/was the only option? Seriously, I don't recall anyone ever arguing that.

It has either been said or blatantly implied in several conversations since the season began.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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  • Author
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I said seriously. None of the pro-tank regulars on here have ever said its the only way.

Oh you are specifically saying, "No one has said the only way we will win a cup is tank"

 

I suppose no one has said that but there has been an avalanche of "McEichel gives us the best chance to win a cup and we must complete the tank or it was worthless"

 

And while no one may have stated it explicitly it again has been heavily implied.

 

I mean you have to admit there has been a ton of posts about how winning is screwing up the tank and mediocrity is coming back if we don't get McEichel and the tank was worthless without McEichel etc...

Claude_Verret First Liner

Claude_Verret

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Posted

I think winning the Cup, while the ultimate goal, is a poor measure of success because of the role chance plays in the outcome in any given season. As a result of this, I think what you're ultimately trying to do with building a team is to build one which can be in the conversation as a contender year-in, year-out, and hope you get that magical year where everything goes your way. I think we can all agree that all of the teams who are in say the top-4 of each conference repeatedly have a couple of elite players. The most likely way to acquire elite players is at the top of the draft. Occasionally a guy becomes available via trade, or free agency, but those are not regular occurrences, and I don't want to have to rely on the rare event going our way (seriously, how can any Buffalo sports fan think that something that rarely happens to benefit a team is going to happen and benefit us!?!?!). Identify what you need to be consistently competitive, recognize the most reliable way to acquire it, and take appropriate action towards those ends. It really is that simple. No guarantees, no promises, just simply putting the odds in your favor.

 

So very simple and logical, yet so often mischaracterized in the name of strawmen. Oh well, just a few more months to go.

SwampD Hall of Famer

SwampD

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Posted

I'm with you on this one. I think someone is off his meds.

When someone, in this very thread (I think), as recently as last week, posts a full paragraph, with no return keys and filled with number signs, stating how stupid this organization is because it has playing lights out (points-wise) to make a mad dash 15th in the east, and they are ruining their chance to get McEichel,,... they are implying that the tank is the only way to go.

Crusader1969 First Liner

Crusader1969

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I am hoping to see the young players we have in the system grow exponentially this year pushing us to win games we otherwise shouldn't.

I agree with you on this point but how many games have been won because of the young guns compared to how many have been won due to a hot goalie?

I still think he should have been traded. I know why they let him go but letting a solid player go for nothing is just plain stupid. He could have got another pick or two out of any deal. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have landed another second or third rounder for the guy.

funny, cause didn't Murray just say that he hates seeing assets walk away for nothing? hmmmmmm
LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Posted (edited)

I agree with you on this point but how many games have been won because of the young guns compared to how many have been won due to a hot goalie?

Quite a few recently. I mean we have in several games lately had more or similar shot totals. Risto and Zadorov are contributing in very meaningful ways.

 

I forgot to add that you are correct that GT has played an integral part in our recent success. Enroth has been on fire.

Edited by LGR4GM
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