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Official 2015 NHL Draft Thread

LGR4GM

By LGR4GM
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SabresBillsFan Second Liner

SabresBillsFan

Posted
Posted

People we all want the Sabres to do well but if your like me I want a superstar or franchise player to build around. We all know about McDavid and Eichel and both are gonna be good ones. The problem I have right now with the sabres doing well is for the ultimate goal. The Stanley Cup. Not being an also ran like how many years of the Sabres history! Yes drafting high doesn't guarntee success but this team hasn't had one or two superstars since LaFontaine and Mogilny. Yes I know we didn't get to the cup with both of them but I feel with all our prospects coming combined with one of the big two plus solid drafting this year sets us up for a long competitive run at not only the playoffs but the main goal the stanley cup.

LastPommerFan First Liner

LastPommerFan

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Posted

But we are trying to build a foundation. That's anti tank as well. You don't try to lose and also try to develop an elite defense. Or try to field two really good goalies. Or try to build Ted Nolan's HWT 2.0.

 

Sure you can, because Ted Nolan, rookie bluelines, and untested goalies all create a lot of losses. You might be better off next year after testing new goalies in Nolan's system and letting your young D get minutes, but you'd be a lock for the playoffs this year if you traded samson for an NHL ready center and the firsts for an NHL scoring winger and a few prospects for some legit 3/4 d-men.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Boston's were Seguin, Horton and to a lesser extent Blake Wheeler.

Yea man Seguin, wooo. 8pts in 23 playoff games hashtag playoffleader

 

Seriously new you were going to use Seguin and new that it was ######. So that being said while Boston won the cup with 2 top 5 guys, only one of them was a important piece to them winning.

 

Ladd had a whopping 5pts in 17 playoff games. Aaron ward had 5pts, Glenn Wesley had 2pts

 

This is really giving this argument such strong footing. I mean most of these "Top 5 picks" barely contributed, half of them were in the twilights of their careers. It is about having top 5 talent, not top 5 picks.

 

i didn't read the article because quite frankly I'm sick of the debate. Both sides are constantly throwing up the same old tired strawmen nearly two years into this thing. For a few more months I will strongly support the tank and anyone who thinks that makes a bad fan can go fukc themselves.

I am fine with people supporting the tank. I am not fine with them (not saying you are) telling everyone it's the only way to win the cup and we don't understand blah blah.

Edited by LGR4GM
Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

Posted
Posted

 

Yea man Seguin, wooo. 8pts in 23 playoff games hashtag playoffleader

 

Seriously new you were going to use Seguin and new that it was ######. So that being said while Boston won the cup with 2 top 5 guys, only one of them was a important piece to them winning.

 

Ladd had a whopping 5pts in 17 playoff games. Aaron ward had 5pts, Glenn Wesley had 2pts

 

This is really giving this argument such strong footing. I mean most of these "Top 5 picks" barely contributed, half of them were in the twilights of their careers. It is about having top 5 talent, not top 5 picks.

 

 

I am fine with people supporting the tank. I am not fine with them (not saying you are) telling everyone it's the only way to win the cup and we don't understand blah blah.

 

1. I'm glad you new me so well.

2. I new you were going to site points for defensemen. Especially two that everybody news were defensive defensemen at that point. Ya new?

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Samson Reinhart, 3 first round picks, and the prospects in Rochester provide you with a ton of options to trade things that are of absolutely no value to winning this year for things that are of value to winning this year.

 

Not making even 1 move in that direction is the opposite of trying to win, it's tanking.

 

They are losing now to build a better team in the future.

I agree that they are willing to lose more games now to win games in the future but tanking is specifically losing to draft high. That is its point. Losing games this year because they didn't sell Reinhart and their 3 firsts is not tanking it is building.

 

1. I'm glad you new me so well.

2. I new you were going to site points for defensemen. Especially two that everybody news were defensive defensemen at that point. Ya new?

And yet, Seguin is a glaring flaw in your debate. Glaring.

 

Tim Thomas won Boston the cup coupled with exquisite play from their two centers

Rod Brind'Amour and Eric Staal (yup top 5 guy) really were major catalysts in Carolina's win.

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

Posted
Posted

 

I agree that they are willing to lose more games now to win games in the future but tanking is specifically losing to draft high. That is its point. Losing games this year because they didn't sell Reinhart and their 3 firsts is not tanking it is building.

 

 

And yet, Seguin is a glaring flaw in your debate. Glaring.

 

Tim Thomas won Boston the cup coupled with exquisite play from their two centers

Rod Brind'Amour and Eric Staal (yup top 5 guy) really were major catalysts in Carolina's win.

 

Ok.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Your original argument was again, that top 5 players were the reason these teams one. It just isn't true. They had a few and some of them played well but the key pieces were not them. You need TOP 5 Talent. Draft position is not the be all end all.

 

Ok.

Thanks for agreeing!

Iron Crotch All Star

Iron Crotch

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Posted

Don't step up to the plate because you might not hit a homerun? Don't step into the ring because you might lose the fight? If you can't be virtually guaranteed of winning a Cup then don't even try? I find the whole "lose on purpose" mentality that so many here espouse incredibly distasteful. It's looking for the easy way out and IMHO is a poor way to think about life in general. Scratch and claw and fight and show some pride and dignity. Do the best you can with what you have. Do it the hard way rather than trying to find a lazy quick fix. There is no certainty in life other than the effort you put in right now.

 

We can't win a Cup without McDavid or Eichel? Horseshit.

 

<end of rant>

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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Posted (edited)

I was just bored with your crusade. You're arguing that draft position isn't the ultimate deciding factor. I'm stating (not arguing) the fact that every team but one has had to top five picks on their team that contributed to their Stanley cup championship. It actually goes further than that.

 

I'm not saying that draft position IS the be-all-end-all. My original post on the matter was just specifying that all but one have had two top five picks when somebody said "most." Furthering their point.

 

Chill out. You don't have to go batshit crazy just because you feel like your shelter is being bombed. It's not. I'm not even peeing on your lawn.

 

I am with Potato. I would love McDavid or Eichel on the team but it won't break us not to have them and if it does, Tim Murray fails at his job.

 

Yes. Yes. And yes.

Edited by Tank
LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Posted (edited)

I was just bored with your crusade. You're arguing that draft position isn't the ultimate deciding factor. I'm stating (not arguing) the fact that every team but one has had to top five picks on their team that contributed to their Stanley cup championship. It actually goes further than that.

 

I'm not saying that draft position IS the be-all-end-all. My original post on the matter was just specifying that all but one have had two top five picks when somebody said "most." Furthering their point.

 

Chill out. You don't have to go batshit crazy and misspell knew just because you feel like your shelter is being bombed. It's not. I'm not even peeing on your lawn.

 

 

 

Yes. Yes. And yes.

GET OFF MY LAWN!

 

Damn kids and their rock n roll.

Edited by LGR4GM
LabattBlue All Star

LabattBlue

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I find the whole "lose on purpose" mentality that so many here espouse incredibly distasteful.

It's been stated many times, but let me break it down...

 

1 - No fan expects the players or coaches to "lose on purpose".

 

2 - The players are giving their best effort(at least some of them) while trying to win.

 

3 - The coaches are trying to win.

 

4 - What fans are HOPING for(and I don't mean to speak for all the pro-tankers) is that they lose as many games as possible in order to draft #1 or #2.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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It's been stated many times, but let me break it down...

 

1 - No fan expects the players or coaches to "lose on purpose".

 

2 - The players are giving their best effort(at least some of them) while trying to win.

 

3 - The coaches are trying to win.

 

4 - What fans are HOPING for(and I don't mean to speak for all the pro-tankers) is that they lose as many games as possible in order to draft #1 or #2.

I am hoping to see the young players we have in the system grow exponentially this year pushing us to win games we otherwise shouldn't.

Stoner Hall of Famer

Stoner

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Tank vs. No Tank now joins the pantheon of great SabreSpace debates Is Miller Elite? and Who's Out There Better Than Lindy? and Is Chz A Morbidly Obese Long Distance Trucker?

 

Well done, chaps, well done.

SabresBillsFan Second Liner

SabresBillsFan

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and buying out the Best D on the team last year? tank or non tank move?

 

I still think he should have been traded. I know why they let him go but letting a solid player go for nothing is just plain stupid. He could have got another pick or two out of any deal. I find it hard to believe we couldn't have landed another second or third rounder for the guy.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

But you think tanking is the best strategy for winning a Cup. So I would think you would want to look back so many years and see what strategy eventual Cup winners employed.

 

I think winning the Cup, while the ultimate goal, is a poor measure of success because of the role chance plays in the outcome in any given season. As a result of this, I think what you're ultimately trying to do with building a team is to build one which can be in the conversation as a contender year-in, year-out, and hope you get that magical year where everything goes your way. I think we can all agree that all of the teams who are in say the top-4 of each conference repeatedly have a couple of elite players. The most likely way to acquire elite players is at the top of the draft. Occasionally a guy becomes available via trade, or free agency, but those are not regular occurrences, and I don't want to have to rely on the rare event going our way (seriously, how can any Buffalo sports fan think that something that rarely happens to benefit a team is going to happen and benefit us!?!?!). Identify what you need to be consistently competitive, recognize the most reliable way to acquire it, and take appropriate action towards those ends. It really is that simple. No guarantees, no promises, just simply putting the odds in your favor.

Crusader1969 First Liner

Crusader1969

Posted
Posted

People we all want the Sabres to do well but if your like me I want a superstar or franchise player to build around. We all know about McDavid and Eichel and both are gonna be good ones. The problem I have right now with the sabres doing well is for the ultimate goal. The Stanley Cup. Not being an also ran like how many years of the Sabres history! Yes drafting high doesn't guarntee success but this team hasn't had one or two superstars since LaFontaine and Mogilny. Yes I know we didn't get to the cup with both of them but I feel with all our prospects coming combined with one of the big two plus solid drafting this year sets us up for a long competitive run at not only the playoffs but the main goal the stanley cup.

amen!
Eleven Hall of Famer

Eleven

Posted
Posted

People we all want the Sabres to do well but if your like me I want a superstar or franchise player to build around. We all know about McDavid and Eichel and both are gonna be good ones. The problem I have right now with the sabres doing well is for the ultimate goal. The Stanley Cup. Not being an also ran like how many years of the Sabres history! Yes drafting high doesn't guarntee success but this team hasn't had one or two superstars since LaFontaine and Mogilny. Yes I know we didn't get to the cup with both of them but I feel with all our prospects coming combined with one of the big two plus solid drafting this year sets us up for a long competitive run at not only the playoffs but the main goal the stanley cup.

 

I'm not going to get into the propriety of this philosophy, if that's the way you want it to happen, ok by me, even though I don't want it.

 

My question to you is, do you think it's likely to happen? I think it's really remote.

TrueBlueGED Hall of Famer

TrueBlueGED

Posted
Posted

Don't step up to the plate because you might not hit a homerun? Don't step into the ring because you might lose the fight? If you can't be virtually guaranteed of winning a Cup then don't even try? I find the whole "lose on purpose" mentality that so many here espouse incredibly distasteful. It's looking for the easy way out and IMHO is a poor way to think about life in general. Scratch and claw and fight and show some pride and dignity. Do the best you can with what you have. Do it the hard way rather than trying to find a lazy quick fix. There is no certainty in life other than the effort you put in right now.

 

We can't win a Cup without McDavid or Eichel? Horseshit.

 

<end of rant>

 

I find your continued promotion of this strawman distasteful horseshit. Nobody has said this, and I'd like to think you're a smart enough guy to be able to vehemently disagree with the tanking approach without needing to build a strawman to tear down.

 

And I have no idea on earth how you consider the tank to be a quick fix or the easy way out. The tank strategy can take several years to even get back to being mediocre, and you have to watch some truly horrid hockey in the meantime...I fundamentally do not understand how that's easy or quick.

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