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Official 2015 NHL Draft Thread

LGR4GM

By LGR4GM
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Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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There have been plenty of posts saying "I'm sick of perpetual mediocrity which is why we need these two" that clearly imply without them we will continue to make endless runs at eighth and not be a contender.

 

It's the belief that this team needs a star. The closest they've come is when they had a star goalie and then when a player was playing on a star level (Briere).

 

This franchise cannot get a star player unless they get lucky or get one in the draft. It's obviously easier to win when you have superstar talent leading the way. The Kings will obviously be the example people use to refute that but you could argue that Doughty and Quick are both star-level talent.

 

This team doesn't need McEichel. It'd be nice. Without them what they need is one of the many top prospects/picks they have to turn into a star.

Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

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It's the belief that this team needs a star. The closest they've come is when they had a star goalie and then when a player was playing on a star level (Briere).

 

This franchise cannot get a star player unless they get lucky or get one in the draft. It's obviously easier to win when you have superstar talent leading the way. The Kings will obviously be the example people use to refute that but you could argue that Doughty and Quick are both star-level talent.

 

This team doesn't need McEichel. It'd be nice. Without them what they need is one of the many top prospects/picks they have to turn into a star.

And this is absolutely reasonable. I don't have time to go back and look but next time the implication that we'll be mediocre forever without these two pops up I'll point it out, and it's not guys like you or rob saying it, it's usually a poster that isn't regular enough to realize this discussion has come and gone many times in this board since we began the rebuild.
Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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And this is absolutely reasonable. I don't have time to go back and look but next time the implication that we'll be mediocre forever without these two pops up I'll point it out, and it's not guys like you or rob saying it, it's usually a poster that isn't regular enough to realize this discussion has come and gone many times in this board since we began the rebuild.

 

Because I'm a sad depressed man I assume we'll be mediocre forever regardless.

Crusader1969 First Liner

Crusader1969

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"We're never going to win the Stanley Cup unless we land Connor McDavid or Jack Eichel in next year's draft."

 

Who is saying that? Does anyone reading the above right now agree with that?

ibelieve thethou odds of winning a cup increase substancially with either mcdavid or eichel. thats why i am pro tank. though i can live with an improved team led by Z, Risto and girgenson as long as they dont move out of bottom 5
Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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ibelieve thethou odds of winning a cup increase substancially with either mcdavid or eichel. thats why i am pro tank. though i can live with an improved team led by Z, Risto and girgenson as long as they dont move out of bottom 5

 

Depends on what you mean by "lead." If Girgensons is your offensive leader then you're not winning anything. If you mean just a leader as in captain or something along those lines then I can see it.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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I disagree that anyone thinks McDavid is essential to winning the cup. But if you are admittedly rebuilding, through the draft also admitted, why wouldn't you do whatever you can to maximize the odds of the greatest return? If the gm wanted to turn things around and make a run he could have traded all our prospects and picks last year to make a run to the last playoff spot. He didn't acknowledging that was not the goal. So Liger your argument that people are stupid because they can't see that there are other potential talents misses the point. That exists every year. In this year, do what you can to maximize your chances at the top and if it doesn't happen, then go from there. What irks me is that the argument about a winning culture is worth the talent trade off. I don't think a culture exists beyond any given group of people at any point in time. Edmonton could easily change there culture by holding everyone accountable. Trade some players for others. You can change your make up and style if willing to do so. You have to know what you want to be first. GMTM has said heavy and skilled is his preference. What also is ignored is that many of our prospects will be dealt. We will not have enough contracts to go around. So pro tankers like myself aren't ignoring the other players or stepping off the ledge if we don't get McEichle, we, rather I, am puzzled at why we should celebrate more valiant mediocrity. Wasn't that why they blew it up to begin with.

Because the players contributing and producing that mediocrity are on a whole about 20years old not 26yr old veterans. What our young players do and how they improve is more important than trying to have some crazy scheme to manipulate our draft position.

 

ibelieve thethou odds of winning a cup increase substancially with either mcdavid or eichel. thats why i am pro tank. though i can live with an improved team led by Z, Risto and girgenson as long as they dont move out of bottom 5

Well considering the talent drop off is probably at around 8 for that second tier, I personally hope they land below that but if they don't it indicates the team is further along than we thought, which is good.

kas23 Second Liner

kas23

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The Hawks are a completely different team without Kane as are the Penguins without Crosby. It's mind-boggling to be that people wouldn't want McEichel in exchange for losing over the next 4 months.

 

The sun doesn't move. Now you're just being ridiculous.

 

I'm pretty sure the sun is moving, just not around the Earth. In fact, the entire Milky Way is moving.

Edited by kas23
Randall Flagg Hall of Famer

Randall Flagg

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The Hawks are a completely different team without Kane as are the Penguins without Crosby. It's mind-boggling to be that people wouldn't want McEichel in exchange for losing over the next 4 months.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure the sun is moving, just not around the Earth. In fact, the entire Milky Way is moving.

Do you think we can out-lose the Oilers? Just wonderin
LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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The Hawks are a completely different team without Kane as are the Penguins without Crosby. It's mind-boggling to be that people wouldn't want McEichel in exchange for losing over the next 4 months.

Neither of those two teams will have drafted as many first rounders as the Sabres have since 2012. Also... Sam Reinhart, did we not draft 2nd overall, am I wrong about this?

 

Again Eichel and McDavid make us better, yes. However if we are better this year because our young players are pushing us forward that is as important if not more.

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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Neither of those two teams will have drafted as many first rounders as the Sabres have since 2012. Also... Sam Reinhart, did we not draft 2nd overall, am I wrong about this?

 

Did the Pens not draft Malkin and Fleury in the top two? The Blackhawks with Toews 3rd overall? Am I wrong about this?

 

I'll be happy if we end up with a top five pick this year. Very disappointed that we likely won't be picking one of McEichel unless the balls fall our way (have fun with that one guys). This prospect pool is awesome but it needs another elite offensive talent. Or Hanifin with the elite offensive talent on top of Reinhart coming via trade.

Edited by Tank
LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Did the Pens not draft Malkin and Fleury in the top two? The Blackhawks with Toews 3rd overall? Am I wrong about this?

 

I'll be happy if we end up with a top five pick this year. Very disappointed that we likely won't be picking one of McEichel unless the balls fall our way (have fun with that one guys). This prospect pool is awesome but it needs another elite offensive talent. Or Hanifin with the elite offensive talent on top of Reinhart coming via trade.

Fleury has never won the Pens jack s#!T but you are correct where he was drafted. We will have 8 first rounders. 8 between 2012 and 2015. That is insane.

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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Fleury has never won the Pens jack s#!T but you are correct where he was drafted. We will have 8 first rounders. 8 between 2012 and 2015. That is insane.

 

Well he is a cup winning goaltender.

 

 

But yes. That is insane.

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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Yes he is. He had a .908sv% and a 2.61gaa in those playoffs.

 

This is irrelevant to the conversation. Point is both of those teams drafted multiple major impact players high. Whether people like it or not Fleury has been a major part of the Pens getting to the playoffs. What he does once he gets there isn't always pretty, but he's still been a part of their long-term success.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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This is irrelevant to the conversation. Point is both of those teams drafted multiple major impact players high. Whether people like it or not Fleury has been a major part of the Pens getting to the playoffs. What he does once he gets there isn't always pretty, but he's still been a part of their long-term success.

And again we will have had more first round picks than Pittsburgh did. One thing that Pittsburgh neglected in the first round that we haven't... Defense.

 

SO Pittsburgh had Ryan Whitney, Sydney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Jordan Staal, Fleury, that's 02-06

 

Buffalo has, Mikhail Grigorenko, Zemgus, Risto, Nikita, Samson, and 3 ?

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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And again we will have had more first round picks than Pittsburgh did. One thing that Pittsburgh neglected in the first round that we haven't... Defense.

 

SO Pittsburgh had Ryan Whitney, Sydney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin, Jordan Staal, Fleury, that's 02-06

 

Buffalo has, Mikhail Grigorenko, Zemgus, Risto, Nikita, Samson, and 3 ?

 

I'm still talking only about the fact that those two teams had more than one pick at the top of the draft that has turned into a star. You refuted somebody else's statement about this with "Reinhart." They need more than one near the top of the draft. Or one of the other guys to turn into that type of talent -- which doesn't happen often.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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I'm still talking only about the fact that those two teams had more than one pick at the top of the draft that has turned into a star. You refuted somebody else's statement about this with "Reinhart." They need more than one near the top of the draft. Or one of the other guys to turn into that type of talent -- which doesn't happen often.

The only team with a ###### ton of players within the top 5 and then won a cup in this era (post 2004/5 lockout) is Pittsburgh. Your statement doesn't hold out. So Chicago has two players, we could get our second player this year. If we just fourth and get Strome that's pretty dam good. Near the top of the draft is relative to the draft itself. Boston had one and he wasn't why they won, LA traded for theirs, Anaheim drafted well later in the draft and won. Detroit won the draft lottery of the 7th round (which won't happen again). I just do not believe the only way for us to win is to pin all our hopes on being terrible this season. Nikita and Rasmus and Zemgus are making us better, they are major contributors to our current success and that is a more positive development than anything. Add to that the clear level of comradery that has developed, we wanted a culture change and got it. Wherever we finish this year I am okay with.

Hoss Hall of Famer

Hoss

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The only team with a ###### ton of players within the top 5 and then won a cup in this era (post 2004/5 lockout) is Pittsburgh. Your statement doesn't hold out. So Chicago has two players, we could get our second player this year. If we just fourth and get Strome that's pretty dam good. Near the top of the draft is relative to the draft itself. Boston had one and he wasn't why they won, LA traded for theirs, Anaheim drafted well later in the draft and won. Detroit won the draft lottery of the 7th round (which won't happen again). I just do not believe the only way for us to win is to pin all our hopes on being terrible this season. Nikita and Rasmus and Zemgus are making us better, they are major contributors to our current success and that is a more positive development than anything. Add to that the clear level of comradery that has developed, we wanted a culture change and got it. Wherever we finish this year I am okay with.

 

Uhhh... I'm saying it takes two. Every single team except for the Detroit Red WIngs has had at least two players who were drafted in the top five make a major impact during their cup run.

 

The Kings and Ducks didn't draft both of the guys they had that were drafted in the top five but Gaborik (Kings) and Niedermeyer, Niedermeyer and Pronger (Ducks) all played huge roles in their teams' run. The rest of those teams had at least two players on their team they drafted in the top five.

LGR4GM Hall of Famer

LGR4GM

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Uhhh... I'm saying it takes two. Every single team except for the Detroit Red WIngs has had at least two players who were drafted in the top five make a major impact during their cup run.

 

The Kings and Ducks didn't draft both of the guys they had that were drafted in the top five but Gaborik (Kings) and Niedermeyer, Niedermeyer and Pronger (Ducks) all played huge roles in their teams' run. The rest of those teams had at least two players on their team they drafted in the top five.

And there is a good chance we will have another top 5 pick this year. That said, we could still do it. Samson is a 2, Rasmus is a 8, Nikita is a 16 playing like a top 10 pick. Mikhail was supposed to be a top 5 but fell. Zemgus is playing above 14. Again we have drafted so many players in the 1st round at least 1 is bound to out perform their draft position and that's all it would take.

sicknfla Third Liner

sicknfla

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Landing McEichle would be huge but I have reached the point that whatever happens happens. Top picks are great and teams like Pitt and Chicago are great examples of the importance. There are also just as many, actually many more, examples of teams that had top picks and didn't win crap. Just look at Colorado this year. A #1 and a #2 has them competing in the CHL.

 

 

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