Official 2015 NHL Draft Thread

[Hoss]

 

I haven't religiously followed his rankings, but it does seem like each time there is one specific guy that he likes to bury down much further than where everyone else has him.  I know he's been burying Hanifin all year.

He had Hanifin at number 3 in December.

 

I haven't religiously followed his rankings, but it does seem like each time there is one specific guy that he likes to bury down much further than where everyone else has him.  I know he's been burying Hanifin all year.

My bad, missed that.

[shrader]

So did the Hanifin free fall start after that? I know each time I looked at Button rankings he had Hanifin well below the standard #3 ranking. I see that as of January that he had him at 5, so I'll claim the technical victory because I said "this year" (and this is where I'd put the winking emoticon if I wasn't on my phone)

[deluca67]

Going back to a previous discussion about dealing the #21 pick to Columbus, if Columbus called the Sabres and offered up the #8 pick for example:

 

To Buffalo:

 

#8 in 2015 

#68 in 2015

Kerby Rychel

 

To Columbus:

 

#21 in 2015

#51 in 2015

Mark Pysyk

Marcus Foligno

 

do you advise Tim Murray take the deal? Is it out of balance? What would be needed to balance out the deal if you feel it is slanted one way or the other?  

[Drunkard]

Going back to a previous discussion about dealing the #21 pick to Columbus, if Columbus called the Sabres and offered up the #8 pick for example:

 

To Buffalo:

 

#8 in 2015

#68 in 2015

Kerby Rychel

 

To Columbus:

 

#21 in 2015

#51 in 2015

Mark Pysyk

Marcus Foligno

 

do you advise Tim Murray take the deal? Is it out of balance? What would be needed to balance out the deal if you feel it is slanted one way or the other?

I'd have zero interest in that deal personally. For one, I don't know much about Rychel but I don't see the need for another LW or where we'd put him other than maybe Rochester. Two, whoever we took at #8 likely wouldn't be ready to play in Buffalo for several years and three I wouldn't want to see Psysk or Foligno shipped out because Psysk shoud be ready for a spot in our top 6 this year and I'm interested to see how Foligno will look with more talent on his line.

 

That proposed deal just seems to delay our rebuild even further by shipping out 2 expected roster players for a possible one and getting rid of our best defensive prospect if you consider Ristolainen and Zadorov to have graduated from prospect status.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Drunkard

[Weave]

Im not sure what that trade would gain us.

[deluca67]

I'd have zero interest in that deal personally. For one, I don't know much about Rychel but I don't see the need for another LW or where we'd put him other than maybe Rochester. Two, whoever we took at #8 likely wouldn't be ready to play in Buffalo for several years and three I wouldn't want to see Psysk or Foligno shipped out because Psysk shoud be ready for a spot in our top 6 this year and I'm interested to see how Foligno will look with more talent on his line.

 

That proposed deal just seems to delay our rebuild even further by shipping out 2 expected roster players for a possible one and getting rid of our best defensive prospect if you consider Ristolainen and Zadorov to have graduated from prospect status.

 

Im not sure what that trade would gain us.

I don't see Pysyk or Foligno as part of this team's future. If I can use them to upgrade the roster and I would do it. We are already coming away form the 2015 with one of the top offensive prospects, I would gladly flip Pysyk and picks for a chance at one of the top 2-3 defensive prospects in a deep draft. I don't see Foligno as having much more than what we have already seen. He is 3rd-4th line guy 10 goals and 25 points. I like his physical play, IMO, Rychel would be an upgrade in hockey talent. Overall it makes the Sabres more talented and , IMO, doesn't slow down the Sabres progress at all. I would not expect a top 8 pick to take "several years" to make this roster.  

[sabresith]

Going back to a previous discussion about dealing the #21 pick to Columbus, if Columbus called the Sabres and offered up the #8 pick for example:

 

To Buffalo:

 

#8 in 2015 

#68 in 2015

Kerby Rychel

 

To Columbus:

 

#21 in 2015

#51 in 2015

Mark Pysyk

Marcus Foligno

 

do you advise Tim Murray take the deal? Is it out of balance? What would be needed to balance out the deal if you feel it is slanted one way or the other?

 

I'd be fine with this. Seems pretty even.

[Hoss]

I wouldn't make that deal. I would take our Rychel and Pysyk and consider it then.

[Eleven]

I don't see Pysyk or Foligno as part of this team's future. If I can use them to upgrade the roster and I would do it. We are already coming away form the 2015 with one of the top offensive prospects, I would gladly flip Pysyk and picks for a chance at one of the top 2-3 defensive prospects in a deep draft. I don't see Foligno as having much more than what we have already seen. He is 3rd-4th line guy 10 goals and 25 points. I like his physical play, IMO, Rychel would be an upgrade in hockey talent. Overall it makes the Sabres more talented and , IMO, doesn't slow down the Sabres progress at all. I would not expect a top 8 pick to take "several years" to make this roster.  

 

With you on Foligno, but Pysyk?  

[WildCard]

IIRC Murray refused to include Foligno in a trade that brought back a player he's wanted for years in Evander Kane. I doubt he includes him to move up to 8th. Top 5 pick? Much more likely

Edited May 31, 2015 by WildCard

[Hoss]

IIRC Murray refused to include Foligno in a trade that brought back a player he's wanted for years in Evander Kane. I doubt he includes him to move up to 8th. Top 5 pick? Much more likely

I don't really think I put much on him saying he wouldn't include Foligno in the deal. My guess is that the Jets pushed for Foligno instead of Stafford or one of the prospects but Murray stood tall, hence why he would've pointed out that he wasn't including Foligno in the deal (this is a complete guess, I have nothing to back it up).

[WildCard]

I don't really think I put much on him saying he wouldn't include Foligno in the deal. My guess is that the Jets pushed for Foligno instead of Stafford or one of the prospects but Murray stood tall, hence why he would've pointed out that he wasn't including Foligno in the deal (this is a complete guess, I have nothing to back it up).

It's a good point, but I just think Murray likes the play of Foligno. Not only the physicality but the fighting/protecting teammates. He makes for a perfect 3rd liner

Who would we really want at 8 that would be suh a significant improvement over that of 21? I feel like we may be getting too fixated on such high picks when we've all seen how screwing the pooch on later draft picks will kill your franchise. Foligno and Pysk are good, cheap players necessary for a winning franchise. I say take the chance at 21 if the aforementioned deal is offered

[Hoss]

It's a good point, but I just think Murray likes the play of Foligno. Not only the physicality but the fighting/protecting teammates. He makes for a perfect 3rd liner

Who would we really want at 8 that would be suh a significant improvement over that of 21? I feel like we may be getting too fixated on such high picks when we've all seen how screwing the pooch on later draft picks will kill your franchise. Foligno and Pysk are good, cheap players necessary for a winning franchise. I say take the chance at 21 if the aforementioned deal is offered

That's why I took Pysyk out. We have different opinion on Foligno. I think he's a 4th liner, and I don't think he's an essential 4th-line type either. He has spurts where he hustles and then disappears for a while.

He's a good looking fellow riding on a good name. I would wish him success elsewhere, but I wouldn't mind seeing him moved.

[dudacek]

Really depends on who is available at eight, innit?

 

I like Foligno better than most of you. I think the player we saw in the second half is a useful 3rd liner on a good team who adds some heavy. Rychel has more upside,not sure if he gets there. Crouse will be better than both, but if you are throwing Pysyk in, youare probably hoping for Provorov or Werenski. Chances are they will both be better than Pysyk, who I like, but I'm not sure I want to wait five years for that to happen.

 

Another way of looking at it is I like Pysyk better than Rychel, so if I'm giving up Foligno and 21, I better love the guy I'm getting at eight.

 

The trade may have fair value, but it goes against where I am in the rebuild. At this point, I think I'm more interested in 22-year-olds than 18-year-olds. Time for players, not prospects.

Edited May 31, 2015 by dudacek

[deluca67]

With you on Foligno, but Pysyk?  

I know some here really like Pysyk, for me I have a "meh" attitude on Pysyk. He'll be a decent NHL defenseman, likely a decent second/third pairing guy. If I can flip him for a more dynamic asset I would make the move. 

 

It's a good point, but I just think Murray likes the play of Foligno. Not only the physicality but the fighting/protecting teammates. He makes for a perfect 3rd liner

Who would we really want at 8 that would be suh a significant improvement over that of 21? I feel like we may be getting too fixated on such high picks when we've all seen how screwing the pooch on later draft picks will kill your franchise. Foligno and Pysk are good, cheap players necessary for a winning franchise. I say take the chance at 21 if the aforementioned deal is offered

I just don't see Foligno and Pysyk as being difference makers. In the early stages of the re-build I want to concentrate on impact players, roster filler comes further down the process. 

[WildCard]

I just don't see Foligno and Pysyk as being difference makers. In the early stages of the re-build I want to concentrate on impact players, roster filler comes further down the process. 

You want all-stars when we already have them. We need depth players like these guys to win championships else you end up like the Pens and not the Hawks

[deluca67]

Really depends on who is available at eight, innit?

 

I like Foligno better than most of you. I think the player we saw in the second half is a useful 3rd liner on a good team who adds some heavy. Rychel has more upside,not sure if he gets there. Crouse will be better than both, but if you are throwing Pysyk in, youare probably hoping for Provorov or Werenski. Chances are they will both be better than Pysyk, who I like, but I'm not sure I want to wait five years for that to happen.

 

Another way of looking at it is I like Pysyk better than Rychel, so if I'm giving up Foligno and 21, I better love the guy I'm getting at eight.

 

The trade may have fair value, but it goes against where I am in the rebuild. At this point, I think I'm more interested in 22-year-olds than 18-year-olds. Time for players, not prospects.

If the draft goes according to Hoyle than that #8 pick is likely a chance at the 2nd or 3rd rated defenseman. Depending on which mock draft ends up being accurate that can be either Hanifan, Provorov or Werenski.  

You want all-stars when we already have them. We need depth players like these guys to win championships else you end up like the Pens and not the Hawks

You're proclaiming the Sabres have "all-stars" when all they have right now is potential. Not every player the Sabres currently have is going to pan out. It's far too early to stop amassing talent and start looking for roster filler. 

 

The Pens have a Stanley Cup and a series of 100 point seasons. I'll take that return. What the Hawks have is nice, I settle for a Cup and permanent contender status. 

[WildCard]

You're proclaiming the Sabres have "all-stars" when all they have right now is potential. Not every player the Sabres currently have is going to pan out. It's far too early to stop amassing talent and start looking for roster filler. 

 

The Pens have a Stanley Cup and a series of 100 point seasons. I'll take that return. What the Hawks have is nice, I settle for a Cup and permanent contender status. 

You can amass talent without drafting in the top 10. My point about the Pens is that they underachieved in the playoffs because they failed to draft properly. I'm not counting Cup wins only; they failed to advance to the Conference Finals even once after that Cup win, and were routinely bullied around by teams with more physical players and teams who could role four lines. 

 

I don't care what you do in the regular season, 100 points means nothing, especially in today's league. Show playoff progress. 

[Hoss]

I know that 21st versus 8th overall pick wasn't meant as such a specific talking point, but just for the hell of it:

 

8th overall picks since 2005:

William Nylander

Rasmus Ristolainen

Derrick Pouliot

Sean Couturier

Alex Burmistrov

Scott Glennie

Mikkel Boedker

Zach Hamill

Peter Mueller

Devin Setoguchi

 

21st overall picks since 2005:

Robby Fabbri

Frederik Gauthier

Mark Jankowski

Stefan Noesen

Riley Sheahan

John Moore

Anton Gustafsson

Riley Nash

Bob Sanguinetti

Tuukka Rask

 

 

Neither side really blows you away.

[deluca67]

You can amass talent without drafting in the top 10. My point about the Pens is that they underachieved in the playoffs because they failed to draft properly. I'm not counting Cup wins only; they failed to advance to the Conference Finals even once after that Cup win, and were routinely bullied around by teams with more physical players and teams who could role four lines. 

 

I don't care what you do in the regular season, 100 points means nothing, especially in today's league. Show playoff progress. 

The Pens drafted well enough to win a Stanley Cup with a core, Crosby, Malkin & Staal that where all drafted in the top 5. The Pens have had less success drafting when they started routinely drafting in the bottom third.  

 

It's pretty simple, drafting top 10 is better than drafting 21st. If the Sabres have the assets and a willing partner in the top 10 then they would be foolish not to explore it. IMO, it's important for Tim Murray to stay aggressive in all aspects. Nothing has been accomplished so there is no reason to sit back.  

I know that 21st versus 8th overall pick wasn't meant as such a specific talking point, but just for the hell of it:

 

8th overall picks since 2005:

William Nylander

Rasmus Ristolainen

Derrick Pouliot

Sean Couturier

Alex Burmistrov

Scott Glennie

Mikkel Boedker

Zach Hamill

Peter Mueller

Devin Setoguchi

 

21st overall picks since 2005:

Robby Fabbri

Frederik Gauthier

Mark Jankowski

Stefan Noesen

Riley Sheahan

John Moore

Anton Gustafsson

Riley Nash

Bob Sanguinetti

Tuukka Rask

 

 

Neither side really blows you away.

I don't know about that. Using the quick eyeball test without looking up numbers I would say 8th has been more productive than 21st by quite a bit. 

[WildCard]

The Pens drafted well enough to win a Stanley Cup with a core, Crosby, Malkin & Staal that where all drafted in the top 5. The Pens have had less success drafting when they started routinely drafting in the bottom third.  

 

It's pretty simple, drafting top 10 is better than drafting 21st. If the Sabres have the assets and a willing partner in the top 10 then they would be foolish not to explore it. IMO, it's important for Tim Murray to stay aggressive in all aspects. Nothing has been accomplished so there is no reason to sit back.  

I don't know about that. Using the quick eyeball test without looking up numbers I would say 8th has been more productive than 21st by quite a bit. 

For the first part: You forgot Fleury, and let's be honest, none of those guys were really too difficult to select besides Malkin,

 

I understand drafting later means a lower success rate, it's not rocket science. That doesn't mean you can completely forgo it and throw everything into top 10 picks. You have to be patient, and find the diamonds in the roughs. Edmonton and Pitt have the same exact problem, they're terrible at drafting in the later round. Saad, who has been pivotal to the Hawks this postseason, was 43rd overall. I know it's only one example, but it goes to show you shouldn't put so much stock into the glamour that is a top 10 pick. There is plenty of value later on, and we should stock a pipeline and groom our guys seeing as we've had our high draft picks, and we aren't trying to win this year anyways. 

 

I see no point in jumping to 8th this year when there are very good prospects I read other posters discussing at 21. IMO it's a rash decision when we should be patient. 

And I like the examples Hoss, but it's too narrow IMO. I'd like to compare maybe 5-10 to 20-25 or so. 

[X. Benedict]

I don't see Pysyk or Foligno as part of this team's future. If I can use them to upgrade the roster and I would do it. We are already coming away form the 2015 with one of the top offensive prospects, I would gladly flip Pysyk and picks for a chance at one of the top 2-3 defensive prospects in a deep draft. I don't see Foligno as having much more than what we have already seen. He is 3rd-4th line guy 10 goals and 25 points. I like his physical play, IMO, Rychel would be an upgrade in hockey talent. Overall it makes the Sabres more talented and , IMO, doesn't slow down the Sabres progress at all. I would not expect a top 8 pick to take "several years" to make this roster.

 

I see Pysyk as an extremely important part of the D that Bylsma likes to play. In the short term more important than Zadorof.

[dudacek]

Most of us have put a lot of stock into the fact Murray told the Jets Foligno was unavailable as meaning he sees him as a core piece.

Maybe he is actually saving him because he knows he needs him to pull off a different big trade — one he has been talking about with Joe Sakic for a year.

Edited May 31, 2015 by dudacek

[...]

Deluca is on fire lately! I would take that trade all day. Foligno, I agree, is not part of the long term plan and is easily replaceable. I have no sense of what Murray thinks of Pysyk, but I would say in both cases you can probably fill those roles with a UFAer either at the deadline or over the summer of 2016.

 

I'd rather take advantage of this year's draft to target talent that will help out the team over the long term.

[Hoss]

I think the best trade spots in this draft are:

-New Jersey at 6. As much as they need high-end prospects they need depth.

-Columbus at 8. This team is ready to win. Move back and pick up NHL talent.

- Colorado at 10. They got the elite young forwards. Defense needs some immediate help.

- Florida at 11. Host team and could use more picks (just one top-75 pick).

 

New Jersey proposal: Cody Hodgson, JT Compher, 21, 31, 2016 2nd for 6 and Ryane Clowe

 

Columbus proposal: Foligno, 21 and a 2016 2nd for 8

 

Colorado proposal: Pysyk, 21 for 10 (could be expanded into a ROR deal)

 

Florida proposal: 21, 31 and 92 for 11