TrueBlueGED Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I said it when he was drafted, and I'll keep saying it: there's going to be a subset of fans, here and elsewhere, who are unimpressed with Reinhart's game because he does not have the flash of some other players. He won't run anyone through the boards, he won't skate through two defenders with incredible speed, and he won't be unleashing bone-breaking slap shots. Just the way it's going to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Is there a reason why Sam's scoring is so much lower this year? Odd because overage players normally dominate the CHL. I think a lot of people are not going to like him. Most people don't notice the defensive contribution of a forward and the points he does get will be attributed to the scoring player. He will be a disappointment to most, who expect an electric player. That said, the best thing that could happen would be to get mcDavid and have him as the electric player and allow Reinhart to chug along Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 It's not about flash or dynamic play or defensive play. It is about the prospect of 3 or 4 rookie centers on the roster at the same time and the long term benefit of a season in Rochester. And yes, I think Sam will be fine. I suppose I could type this in all caps and use hystrionics to try to make my case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I think we have 3 rookie centers starting tonight... Grigorenko, Larsson, Varone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 It's not about flash or dynamic play or defensive play. It is about the prospect of 3 or 4 rookie centers on the roster at the same time and the long term benefit of a season in Rochester. And yes, I think Sam will be fine. I suppose I could type this in all caps and use hystrionics to try to make my case. To be clear, my post wasn't directed at you. Just a general comment that some of his best qualities will go unnoticed, which will inevitably lead to some complaining, and it's best to just accept that now. I think we have 3 rookie centers starting tonight... Grigorenko, Larsson, Varone. Yea, this kind of makes weave's point for him ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I said it when he was drafted, and I'll keep saying it: there's going to be a subset of fans, here and elsewhere, who are unimpressed with Reinhart's game because he does not have the flash of some other players. He won't run anyone through the boards, he won't skate through two defenders with incredible speed, and he won't be unleashing bone-breaking slap shots. Just the way it's going to be. Fine, but he has to produce offense. If he doesn't then being disappointed in him and/or criticizing him will be entirely reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Fine, but he has to produce offense. If he doesn't then being disappointed in him and/or criticizing him will be entirely reasonable. Depends on what you mean by producing offense. What level are we talking about? My expectation is he's a consistent 60 point player while playing a great two-way game. I get the sense that 60 points won't satisfy a sizeable group of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Neither Patrice Bergeron nor Jonathan Toews blow past people, blow them up, or deke them out of their jocks. They just really know how to play hockey. Reinhart is that kind of player. We hope he can eventually be on that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Depends on what you mean by producing offense. What level are we talking about? My expectation is he's a consistent 60 point player while playing a great two-way game. I get the sense that 60 points won't satisfy a sizeable group of people. Neither Patrice Bergeron nor Jonathan Toews blow past people, blow them up, or deke them out of their jocks. They just really know how to play hockey. Reinhart is that kind of player. We hope he can eventually be on that level. Bergeron and especially Toews would be fine with me, and, I suspect, most of us here. I will point out that Toews is closer to being a 70-point guy than a 60-point guy, while Bergeron is closer to 60 and, while being a very good hockey player, plays with less fire in the belly than Toews. I guess I'd sorta expect the #2 overall pick to be closer to Toews than Bergeron in both respects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am a bit worried about Sam's slight drop off in his Junior numbers this year. Kootenay is a bit weaker statistically this year too, maybe he's having to do more with less. My hope is that his body is changing due to working out and adding weight for next season. A previous comparison to Igor Larinov may be the most interesting one I think about. An intelligent 2 way game that makes everyone else shine seems to be his style. He also plays a 200 foot game and all special team situations. His leadership qualities will probably earn him a letter down the road. Previous high draft picks whose numbers didn't grow when sent back to Jr. are Spezza who dropped off a bit in his 19th year. Bobby Ryan's stats stayed the same for his post draft years. Tavares peaked in his 16th year and actually dropped off in his draft year. I think he starts as 2 or 3 C in October. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Bergeron and especially Toews would be fine with me, and, I suspect, most of us here. I will point out that Toews is closer to being a 70-point guy than a 60-point guy, while Bergeron is closer to 60 and, while being a very good hockey player, plays with less fire in the belly than Toews. I guess I'd sorta expect the #2 overall pick to be closer to Toews than Bergeron in both respects. That draft class didn't have the top end that other classes had. IMO Toews is an unreasonable comparison. Dude is playoff MVP caliber. I think this years' #2 overall is more likely to have that ceiling. The original comparison for Reinhart was Adam Oates. I suspect that's about right. Among current players Bergeron is probably about that level. And I doubt anyone complains if he approaches that level of player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 That draft class didn't have the top end that other classes had. IMO Toews is an unreasonable comparison. Dude is playoff MVP caliber. I think this years' #2 overall is more likely to have that ceiling. The original comparison for Reinhart was Adam Oates. I suspect that's about right. Among current players Bergeron is probably about that level. And I doubt anyone complains if he approaches that level of player. If Oates or Bergeron are the consensus I will be happy. Others(Buttons, Dreger) have made comparisons in his game to Sakic, and his ability to make the right choices at the right time. If he does that, we will need another statue next to the French Connection and McJesus. Sakic is one of my all time favorites so I am biased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Krejci is the comparable that Matthew Collar from WGR uses often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Bergeron and especially Toews would be fine with me, and, I suspect, most of us here. I will point out that Toews is closer to being a 70-point guy than a 60-point guy, while Bergeron is closer to 60 and, while being a very good hockey player, plays with less fire in the belly than Toews. I guess I'd sorta expect the #2 overall pick to be closer to Toews than Bergeron in both respects. 1) This "fire in the belly" comment is, to use one of your phrases, from outer space. 2) I think the only reason Toews puts up more points than Bergeron is because Bergeron is subjected to more extreme defensive usage, while Toews faces a more balanced workload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 If Oates or Bergeron are the consensus I will be happy. Others(Buttons, Dreger) have made comparisons in his game to Sakic, and his ability to make the right choices at the right time. If he does that, we will need another statue next to the French Connection and McJesus. Sakic is one of my all time favorites so I am biased. Sakic would be one helluva offensive ceiling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrassValleyGreg Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am a bit worried about Sam's slight drop off in his Junior numbers this year. Kootenay is a bit weaker statistically this year too, maybe he's having to do more with less. My hope is that his body is changing due to working out and adding weight for next season. A previous comparison to Igor Larinov may be the most interesting one I think about. An intelligent 2 way game that makes everyone else shine seems to be his style. He also plays a 200 foot game and all special team situations. His leadership qualities will probably earn him a letter down the road. Previous high draft picks whose numbers didn't grow when sent back to Jr. are Spezza who dropped off a bit in his 19th year. Bobby Ryan's stats stayed the same for his post draft years. Tavares peaked in his 16th year and actually dropped off in his draft year. I think he starts as 2 or 3 C in October. I was thinking the same thing with Sam. It was pretty clear he needed to work on his body. Maybe this became the priority, far above bolstering his draft status with points. Still, after seeing how out of place he looked in the pros, followed by his below standard play, I can't say I'm free of concern . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) I want to address this idea of sub-standard play. Just so everyone is clear here, when a fired-up Sam Reinhart was sent down, he blew the competition out of the water in the first six weeks. I don't have the stats in front of me, but I'm pretty sure it was around two points per game, and above his previous season pace. Then he went into the world junior championships against the best junior-aged players in the world. He centred the first line, took all the key face-offs, and was on the first unit PK and PP. He also led the tournament in scoring, plus-minus and game-winning goals — all while playing against the other teams' best players. He led his team to gold. He's definitely hit a lull since going back to Kootenay after the world juniors. He's acknowledged that himself. But considering he is playing on a mediocre team and has already accomplished everything there is for him to accomplish in junior hockey, I'm not sure the past two months is much to worry about. His lull is still over a point a game. Edited March 6, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) He's right -- He was 8-19-27 in 15 games prior to World Juniors. 1.80 PPG 9-21-30 in 24 games since. 1.25 PPG Still has points in 34 of his 39 games. Edited March 6, 2015 by Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I am a bit worried about Sam's slight drop off in his Junior numbers this year. Kootenay is a bit weaker statistically this year too, maybe he's having to do more with less. My hope is that his body is changing due to working out and adding weight for next season. A previous comparison to Igor Larinov may be the most interesting one I think about. An intelligent 2 way game that makes everyone else shine seems to be his style. He also plays a 200 foot game and all special team situations. His leadership qualities will probably earn him a letter down the road. Previous high draft picks whose numbers didn't grow when sent back to Jr. are Spezza who dropped off a bit in his 19th year. Bobby Ryan's stats stayed the same for his post draft years. Tavares peaked in his 16th year and actually dropped off in his draft year. I think he starts as 2 or 3 C in October. If you are ever worried I would suggest rewatching the WJC from 2 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 1) This "fire in the belly" comment is, to use one of your phrases, from outer space. 2) I think the only reason Toews puts up more points than Bergeron is because Bergeron is subjected to more extreme defensive usage, while Toews faces a more balanced workload. How so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 (edited) That draft class didn't have the top end that other classes had. IMO Toews is an unreasonable comparison. Dude is playoff MVP caliber. I think this years' #2 overall is more likely to have that ceiling. The original comparison for Reinhart was Adam Oates. I suspect that's about right. Among current players Bergeron is probably about that level. And I doubt anyone complains if he approaches that level of player. Toews was ranked third by the Hockey News in his draft year, behind Kessel and Erik Johnson. He was picked third, ahead of Kessel and behind Jordan Staal. He was described as a complete two-way player, very competitive, but without a lot of flair. He was listed at 6'1" 195 pounds. In his pre-draft season, he had 38 points in 41 games as a college freshman and two assists in six games in the WJC. The year prior to that, he captained Canada's U18 national team. He didn't play in the NHL the year after being drafted. Instead, he put up 46 points in 34 games at UND and led Canada to gold with 4/3/7 in six WJC games. The next year he put up 54 points for the Hawks and has been a steady 70-point producer ever since. **** Reinhart was ranked fourth by the Hockey News in his draft year, behind Sam Bennett, Leon Draisaitl and Aaron Ekblad. He was picked second, ahead of Bennett and Draisaitl. He was described as a complete two-way player, very cerebral, but without a lot of flair. He was listed at 6'1" 185 pounds. In his pre-draft season, he had 105 points in 60 games in the Western Hockey League and two goals and three assists in six games in the WJC. The year prior to that he captained Canada's U18 national team. He didn't play much in the NHL the year after being drafted. Instead (so far), he put up 57 points in 39 games at Kootenay and led Canada to gold with 5/6/11 in seven WJC games. The next year...? ***** I'm not saying Reinhart will be Toews, in fact that is unlikely. Toews is a special player. But you'd be hard-pressed to find a player whose career Reinhart's has more closely mirrored. Edited March 6, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 How so? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you meant, but when I read that one player plays with more fire than another, I think it's a commentary on effort. I've never seen, read, or heard a single thing to indicate Bergeron is anything other than a 100% effort player on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 How can we be ONLY 2 months removed from the World Juniors and have any questions about him as a prospect?? I mean this is the guy who was the #1 Centre for a team that had Connor McDavid playing on it. This may have been mentioned but he is the #1 prospect in this months Hockey News "futures propects" magazine. I figure he will be a very good #1 centre or an elite #2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 I don't think there are really that many questions about the kid's future. There were one or two. Otherwise it was just those that believe he should play in Rochester next season, but I don't think those guys think that Reinhart won't be a very good NHL player down the road... Liger just made it seem like the sentiments about Samson were worse than they really are, because... Well, it's Liger. He likes to scream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Congrats to Sam. Love the Future Watch issue. Can't wait to get my hands on it. Interesting comparison here between the two tanks. (Not sure who that is in Zadorov's jersey.) http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/whose-five-year-outlook-is-stronger-arizonas-or-buffalos/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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