2014 - 2015 Sabres Prospects

[Drunkard]

I have a question...

 

Last night the Sharks had two recent first rounders playing for them that were not very high picks. Seems to me first round picks in general in the NHL are getting more reliable as NHL players. Am I mistaken in this?

 

I haven't done any research but I would assume with all of the money and resources that teams now dump into scouting that it's getting more reliable over time. It will always be somewhat of a crap shoot but I would bet than it's less of a crapshoot than it use to be and it will continue to improve in the future up to a point. Travel is cheaper and easier, more games are televised than ever before, and with the internet you can probably find a live stream of ###### fights in Mexico let alone just about any organized hockey game. Throw in advanced stats, the relative ease and ability to talk to these kids coaches, and all of that leads to more and more information and less ambiguity about prospects.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Drunkard

[shrader]

I haven't done any research but I would assume with all of the money and resources that teams now dump into scouting that it's getting more reliable over time. It will always be somewhat of a crap shoot but I would bet than it's less of a crapshoot than it use to be and it will continue to improve in the future up to a point. Travel is cheaper and easier, more games are televised than ever before, and with the internet you can probably find a live stream of ###### fights in Mexico let alone just about any organized hockey game. Throw in advanced stats, the relative ease and ability to talk to these kids coaches, and all of that leads to more and more information and less ambiguity about prospects.

 

I wouldn't put it so much on better scouting. I think it's more a story of how kids are being developed much better at the junior and college level these days. These kids are in far better shape than they ever were by the time they get to the NHL level. Couple that with strong coaching at those levels and they are more ready than they've ever been.

 

Then there's the salary cap. There's more incentive to the teams to have young guys on an entry level contract to fill out their roster.

[Stoner]

Nothing earth shattering here, but nice to see us as #1 again in something besides the draft lotto order.

 

http://www.hockeysfu...-prospect-pool/

 

Does this site and others allow readers to look at their rankings 5 and 10 years ago to see how it all worked out? I could swear the Sabres were at or near the top of these rankings pretty consistently under Darce.

[bob_sauve28]

 

 

I wouldn't put it so much on better scouting. I think it's more a story of how kids are being developed much better at the junior and college level these days. These kids are in far better shape than they ever were by the time they get to the NHL level. Couple that with strong coaching at those levels and they are more ready than they've ever been.

 

Then there's the salary cap. There's more incentive to the teams to have young guys on an entry level contract to fill out their roster.

This is how I was looking at it. Also, just more kids getting involved with hockey at a younger age all over the world is increasing the talen pool of good athletes, it seems

[3putt]

I have a question...

 

Last night the Sharks had two recent first rounders playing for them that were not very high picks. Seems to me first round picks in general in the NHL are getting more reliable as NHL players. Am I mistaken in this?

It also is a matter of the construction of the team the pick is going to. SJ was a cup favorite year after year with Marleu Thornton et al, so if you are management an need to plug in someone to fill in on the bottom 2 lines it is cheaper to use someone on their ELC. If they are not a liability it should enhance their development as well. It is similar in all leagues with caps. Getting lower price contracts into the lineup earlier makes economic sense and frees up resources to compete for free agents to plug holes or put you over the top.

[LastPommerFan]

Of course. But after the "success" of Housley, Cyr, Andrechuck, Barasso, LaCombe, Creighton, Tucker, and the continued "just wait til next year" of the Rigas-Golisano years I'm not inclined to excitement over a bunch of kids that haven't played yet.

 

The hope lies in today's scouting being lightyears ahead of that era. Everyone knows who the most likely hits are at draft time. I think our odds are much better now.

[tom webster]

 

 

Does this site and others allow readers to look at their rankings 5 and 10 years ago to see how it all worked out? I could swear the Sabres were at or near the top of these rankings pretty consistently under Darce.

 

The Sabres were at or near the top when the past core were all prospects and Miller, Biron and Norenon where in the system. They were at middle of the pack or below once that group made the NHL

[Stoner]

The Sabres were at or near the top when the past core were all prospects and Miller, Biron and Norenon where in the system. They were at middle of the pack or below once that group made the NHL

 

I guess you're right. This franchise has been selling hope since Day One and it's getting kind of tired.

[Johnny DangerFace]

Does this site and others allow readers to look at their rankings 5 and 10 years ago to see how it all worked out? I could swear the Sabres were at or near the top of these rankings pretty consistently under Darce.

 

Not quite

 

2004: 14

2005: 12

2006: 21

2007: 24

2008: 20

2009: 9

2010: 19

2011: 14

2012: 13

2013: 2

2014: 1

[WildCard]

Two questions Numark.

 

1) How did you get that?

 

2) Can you get the teams ranked 1-5 or so for the past decade? I'd be interested to know their success

 

Oh, and thanks for the stats :thumbsup:

Edited November 20, 2014 by WildCard

[K-9]

Not quite

 

2004: 14

2005: 12

2006: 21

2007: 24

2008: 20

2009: 9

2010: 19

2011: 14

2012: 13

2013: 2

2014: 1

 

So my question would be which teams were at the top of the prospects list those years and how did their prospects pan out?

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Johnny DangerFace]

Yea no problem, I think these would be very interesting to look at but here are links (use these for the old years as their URLs on the website are mainly broken now). I got them by google searching and old forum links haha

 

 

 

2004 1-10

2004 11-20

2004 21-30

 

2005 1-15

2005 16-30

 

2006 1-15

2006 16-30

 

2007 1-10

2007 11-20

2007 21-30

 

2008 1-10

2008 11-20

2008 21-30

 

2009 1-10

2009 11-20

2009 21-30

 

2010 1-10

2010 11-20

2010 21-30

 

2011 1-10

2011 11-20

2011 21-30

 

2012

 

2013

 

2014

 

 

So my question would be which teams were at the top of the prospects list those years and how did their prospects pan out?

 

GO SABRES!!!

 

​Lots or pro-tank and anti-tank arguments to be found in those links :P

Edited November 20, 2014 by Numark

[tom webster]

 

 

I guess you're right. This franchise has been selling hope since Day One and it's getting kind of tired.

 

I wouldn't disagree with this

[Johnny DangerFace]

Also just a quick look at those lists. Here are the teams that were in the top 3 for consecutive years (something the sabres have just done, I think that is a fair benchmark):

 

 

2004-2005 Penguins

 

2004-2005 Capitals

 

2004 - 2005 Blackhawks

 

2007-2009 Blues

 

2009-2010 Predators

 

2011-2012 Panthers

 

2013-2014 Sabres

 

 

The only team thats just missed out was 2006-2008 LA Kings (#2 in 2006, #5 in 2007, #3 2008). Also Edmonton has been hanging around the top 5 since 2010

Edited November 20, 2014 by Numark

[WildCard]

Thanks Numark.

 

I know I'm lazy, so I'm going to mainstream this for those that don't wanna click on links.

 

2004:

1) Washington

2) Pitt

3) Chicago

4) Edmonton

5) Montral

 

 

2005:

1) Pitt

2) Washington

3) Chicago

4) La

5) Nashville

 

2006:

1) Pitt

2) LA

3) Chicago

4) Washington

5) CBJ

 

2007:

1) St.Louis

2) Chicago

3) Pheonix

4) Montreal

5) LA

 

2008:

1) St.Louis

2) LA

3) CBJ

4) Pheonix

5) Boston

 

2009:

1) St.Louis

2) Nashville

3) NYR

4) CBJ

5) LA

 

2010:

1) Nashville

2) LA

3) Edmonton

4) Florida

5) Washington

 

2011:

1) Florida

2) Ottawa

3) NYI

4) Edmonton

5) LA

 

2012:

1) Minnesota

2) Florida

3) Edmonton

4) Ottawa

5) St. Louis

 

2013:

1) Tampa Bay

2) Buffalo

3) Anaheim

4) Dallas

5) NYI

 

2014:

1) Buffalo

2) Calgary

3) NYI

4) Detroit

5) Anaheim

[Johnny DangerFace]

The Pit, LA, Chicago grouping really ending up working for those teams. St. Louis seems to be coming around. Nashville, Florida, and Edmonton though.....

Edited November 20, 2014 by Numark

[K-9]

The Pit, LA, Chicago grouping really ending up working for those teams. St. Louis seems to be coming around. Nashville, Florida, and Edmonton though.....

 

So, bottom line, do these prognosticators know what they're talking about regarding our prospects? I don't know. If it's anything like football, it's a crapshoot at best.

 

GO SABRES!!!

[Eleven]

I guess you're right. This franchise has been selling hope since Day One and it's getting kind of tired.

 

If only you lived in a state with other hockey teams to follow.

 

Want to know what's getting kind of tired? Your act.

[Stoner]

If only you lived in a state with other hockey teams to follow.

 

Want to know what's getting kind of tired? Your act.

 

Once again, the ignore button is your friend.

 

Refuting the point instead of making personal attacks makes for a better conversation.

[Eleven]

Once again, the ignore button is your friend.

 

Refuting the point instead of making personal attacks makes for a better conversation.

 

Repeating the same stuff over and over for a decade doesn't make for any kind of conversation.

 

I know I have an ignore button. You have an internal filter.

Edited November 20, 2014 by Eleven

[WildCard]

I guess you're right. This franchise has been selling hope since Day One and it's getting kind of tired.

First off, the Sabres made 2 ECFS with those prospects, and we all know they could have won at least one of those.

 

Secondly, take a look at the lists above. LA, Chicago, and Pitt have all made/ won multiple cups and were consistently in the top 5 of the rankings. St.Louis has been a top 5 team in the league the last 3 years, and so has Anaheim.

 

That leaves the following: Washington built around a RW who has run every coach out of town while simultaneously demoralizing his entire locker room by being lazy and a polarizing figure of controversy. Not too mention they traded away Filip Forsberg. Florida has yet to be determined, and we're all well aware of who little depth Edmonton gets out of their drafts.

 

It isn't mindless hope the Sabres have. Refusing to acknowledge a bright future based on being a pessimist is absurd.

[Stoner]

Repeating the same stuff over and over for a decade doesn't make for any kind of conversation.

 

I know I have an ignore button. You have an internal filter.

 

We all have agendas and narratives and filters. Yours is that Lindy Ruff should have been coach for life and that the City of Buffalo shall rise again. What's the problem?

 

Anyway, how can you take offense to the idea that this franchise has sold hope throughout its history? And never moreso than now. I know you don't like the tank. Do you like to argue just for the sake of arguing? I'm fine with that.

[Stoner]

First off, the Sabres made 2 ECFS with those prospects, and we all know they could have won at least one of those.

 

Secondly, take a look at the lists above. LA, Chicago, and Pitt have all made/ won multiple cups and were consistently in the top 5 of the rankings. St.Louis has been a top 5 team in the league the last 3 years, and so has Anaheim.

 

That leaves the following: Washington built around a RW who has run every coach out of town while simultaneously demoralizing his entire locker room by being lazy and a polarizing figure of controversy. Not too mention they traded away Filip Forsberg. Florida has yet to be determined, and we're all well aware of who little depth Edmonton gets out of their drafts.

 

It isn't mindless hope the Sabres have. Refusing to acknowledge a bright future based on being a pessimist is absurd.

 

And Columbus and the Islanders? The list provides ammo for both sides. I guess I'm pessimistic, I don't know. I think of it as more realistic. The team is historically bad and the owner is a moron. It's sports though, and anything can, and usually does, happen.

[LastPommerFan]

5 of the last 6 Stanley cup champions are on that list.

 

The data does not tell both stories. This is almost proof of how to build a cup winner. It shows that it is nearly impossible under the new CBA to build any other way.

 

It's not saying you are definitely going to win this way, but it does say that without following this path, you have very little chance of winning the cup.

[WildCard]

And Columbus and the Islanders? The list provides ammo for both sides. I guess I'm pessimistic, I don't know. I think of it as more realistic. The team is historically bad and the owner is a moron. It's sports though, and anything can, and usually does, happen.

How else do you want us to win a Cup?