Eleven Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Not following the logic behind the bolded. It appears that you're saying that because the Germans had to put 2 teams out there for ~45 years, the successes of the bifurcated team are somehow diminished. Wouldn't WG's success be even more impressive because they didn't have all the top Germans available to them? Because we're talking about the best country in WC history, it seems. I'm not saying that the FRG wins "don't count." I'm saying that if Germany is truly the "king," we have to also examine the DDR. (And given DDR's track record in the World Cup--it only qualified once!--I doubt that its players would have helped.) Great win over the weekend. Brazil still is the king of the sport. They're the New York Yankees of soccer.
Taro T Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Because we're talking about the best country in WC history, it seems. I'm not saying that the FRG wins "don't count." I'm saying that if Germany is truly the "king," we have to also examine the DDR. (And given DDR's track record in the World Cup--it only qualified once!--I doubt that its players would have helped.) Great win over the weekend. Brazil still is the king of the sport. They're the New York Yankees of soccer. So the German JV team couldn't hang with the big boys but their failure is a knock on Germany as a whole? How would 'West Brazil' have fared if that country were split in 2? My expectation is that most of the studly Brazilians came from the more developed eastern portion of the country, and unless Pele were out of the deep rainforest that Eastern Brazil would crush Western Brazil consistently. That doesn't/wouldn't mean Brazil got no useful players out of the West, just that the bulk of them came from more densely populated areas. I'd've been very surprised if a unified German team from the Cold War era wouldn't have been stronger than West Germany alone - they would have had ~30% more players to draw from. I'd agree that Brazil is still historical King, but would say it's more like football than baseball or hockey. The Yanks & Habs haven't been on top for a long time, but nobody is close to them. Brazil has some (particularly Germany) nipping at their heels.
Eleven Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 So the German JV team couldn't hang with the big boys but their failure is a knock on Germany as a whole? How would 'West Brazil' have fared if that country were split in 2? My expectation is that most of the studly Brazilians came from the more developed eastern portion of the country, and unless Pele were out of the deep rainforest that Eastern Brazil would crush Western Brazil consistently. That doesn't/wouldn't mean Brazil got no useful players out of the West, just that the bulk of them came from more densely populated areas. I'd've been very surprised if a unified German team from the Cold War era wouldn't have been stronger than West Germany alone - they would have had ~30% more players to draw from. I'd agree that Brazil is still historical King, but would say it's more like football than baseball or hockey. The Yanks & Habs haven't been on top for a long time, but nobody is close to them. Brazil has some (particularly Germany) nipping at their heels. For some reason, I don't think you're getting at what I'm getting at. (And Italy is nipping at Brazil's heels, too, albeit in a much more defensive posture.)
Taro T Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) For some reason, I don't think you're getting at what I'm getting at. (And Italy is nipping at Brazil's heels, too, albeit in a much more defensive posture.) It sounds like you are saying that the East Germans not being particularly good at soccer is a negative that must be considered and given weight when determining who is the historically &/or consistently the 'best ever.' If that isn't your point, then it escapes me. Considering that only the best a nation has to offer are used in that evaluation (at least in the context of World Cup play), it seems to me the East German squads don't factor in, or if they do it should be in that not having ANY of those players available to the top German squad (the BRD) would indicate that if anything Germany would be ranked even higher all time by placing a few players on any Greater Deutschland squad. Edited July 15, 2014 by Taro T
LastPommerFan Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Would the USMNT be better if we included players from Puerto Rico? worse? the same? Does Puerto Rico's poor record indicate some failure of US Soccer?
MattPie Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Would the USMNT be better if we included players from Puerto Rico? worse? the same? Does Puerto Rico's poor record indicate some failure of US Soccer? Yeah, I'm failing to understand the logic in this discussion (and agreeing with LPF's post). Germany would have likely been better during the cold war years if they were united. I'd assume there'd be at least one player on the East German side that would have been good enough to make a combined German team and therefore make the team better. Edited July 15, 2014 by MattPie
LastPommerFan Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Yeah, I'm failing to understand the logic in this discussion (and agreeing with LPF's post). Germany would have likely been better during the cold war years if they were united. I'd assume there'd be at least one player on the East German side that would have been good enough to make a combined German team and therefore make the team better. Who's LPF?
MattPie Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Who's LPF? Oops, I think I auto-translated GCOE to LPF (Last Pommer Fan).
LastPommerFan Posted July 15, 2014 Report Posted July 15, 2014 Don't worry, once Pysyk wins the Norris I'm sure he'll return as Lifetime Pysyk Fan.
Eleven Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Not that I want this side discussion to live forever, but Texas can't tell me it's the king of pro football while Houston's around and while Pittsburgh has more titles. Dig? And yes, one of you will bring up Philly. Not the point. Edited July 16, 2014 by Eleven
Peppy22 Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Very happy for you and your country! Soccer's popularity has grown in the U.S., but not to what you guys have it at in Germany. If the U.S. had won the World Cup, the celebration wouldn't have been as large. Not as many employers would be "understanding" why a person called in "sick" that day after winning a World Cup. One can only hope. Again, congrats to Germany!!! Glad they won it. The US is actually on a good way. The reason why many americans don't like soccer might be that they only know or have watched the MLS. WIth all respect the MLS is nowhere near the Premier League, La Liga or the Bundesliga. At least not yet. That's makes it difficult for US players to develop. See it the other way around Germany sucks at hockey because our league isnt good and the challenge is much higher in the US or Canada. It's kinda the same thing. It's gonna be difficult for the MLS to attract world class players in their prime so the only way for US players to become great players is to move to europe. However people sometimes have a hard time identifying with the players if they are that far away. ______________________________ To close out the World Cup from a german standpoint. I live in Berlin and the team arrived here yesterday. I live kinda close to the airport so I knew they would fly over my flat and then I saw them... maybe 500 meters above me :) The city was filled with people. in front of the brandenburger gate more than 500.000 people waited... some even slept there over night. At 8 am they had to close the first gates because there were too many people. Overall they were more than 1 million people on the streets (Berlin roughly has 4 Million people who live here [media]http://youtu.be/-fx8NZE7u8I[/media] The pilot actually made a turn before landing and flew over the 500.000 people waiting at the brandenburger gate. The pilot "waved" using the wings of his plane. That can be seen hereat 00:30 Mesut Özil also uploaded a video from the truck they were using to get through the city until they arrived at the gate. Damn it you must feel like jesus in that situation. https://www.youtube....h?v=ecpo5gYXDCI overall they represented our country very well not only because of the world cup. Edited July 16, 2014 by Peppy22
MattPie Posted July 16, 2014 Report Posted July 16, 2014 The US is actually on a good way. The reason why many americans don't like soccer might be that they only know or have watched the MLS. WIth all respect the MLS is nowhere near the Premier League, La Liga or the Bundesliga. At least not yet. That's makes it difficult for US players to develop. See it the other way around Germany sucks at hockey because our league isnt good and the challenge is much higher in the US or Canada. It's kinda the same thing. It's gonna be difficult for the MLS to attract world class players in their prime so the only way for US players to become great players is to move to europe. However people sometimes have a hard time identifying with the players if they are that far away. I get what you're saying, but to a casual fan there's not difference between the MLS and anything else because we don't really understand the nuances of the game. Realistically, the reasons I hear from everyone is: soccer is boring. American audiences are programmed that something exciting should happen at least once a minute in sports otherwise they lose interest. Hockey barely gets past boring to most casual fans because it's a bunch of guys skating around at least with a little hitting. Soccer is a bunch of guys running around, except there's even fewer shots and "interesting" parts. And if there's a collision, guys are writhing around in their death-throws afterward. And I actually enjoy watching soccer from time to time. The other thing you may notice is the most popular sports in the US tend to be dominated by US players and only really played in the US. I don't know if it's provincialism or coincidence, but football and baseball are #1 and #2, and #3 is arguably basketball (although there are some good European leagues from what I hear).
Sabres Fan in NS Posted July 29, 2014 Author Report Posted July 29, 2014 So, .......... See you in 2 years for the next major tournament ... Euro 2016. Thanks all for playin'.
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