2014-2015 Roster

[dEnnis the Menace]

I've never believed in this idea that any kid is above his junior league. As a teenager, there's still plenty that they can gain by playing at that level. There is plenty of talent at that level and no CHL superstar would be wasting away by spending an extra year there. That doesn't mean he belongs in the WHL this year though. If he shows in camp and the first 9 games that he is an NHL player, that's where he should be.

 

I'm not trying to sit on the fence on this one, but I believe that the right player will thrive regardless of where he spends that first season.

 

understandable

[nfreeman]

Dead wrong. Reinhart needs the speed and strength of the NHL game to get better, wasting away in the WHL when he is hands down better than anyone he plays helps him not.

 

And how do we reconcile this with your previously militant attitude about keeping the kids in juniors?

 

Hmmmmmmmmm??

[LGR4GM]

And how do we reconcile this with your previously militant attitude about keeping the kids in juniors?

 

Hmmmmmmmmm??

It depends on the kid in all honesty. If we had drafted Bennet or Draisaitl I would say back to Juniors but Reinhart, he needs to be immersed in NHL speed and style so he can adapt mentally to it and do his thing.

[Crusader1969]

Im concerned he isn't physically ready for the NHL - im sure he is mentally ready. Sure it will be fun to watch our "shiny new toy" play in Buffalo next season but if the kid isn't strong enough at this point why not let him develop further (physically) in juniors.

[Hoss]

Im concerned he isn't physically ready for the NHL - im sure he is mentally ready. Sure it will be fun to watch our "shiny new toy" play in Buffalo next season but if the kid isn't strong enough at this point why not let him develop further (physically) in juniors.

 

If he isn't physically ready from the time he's already spent in the WHL then he should probably get some time with an NHL training program.

[Randall Flagg]

If he isn't physically ready from the time he's already spent in the WHL then he should probably get some time with an NHL training program.

I would think that since we last saw him play, there already might be a bit of a difference right? He won't be fully mature obviously but by the time the season starts he'll have had three months, which can produce some real results.

[drnkirishone]

Unless samson dominates camp/preseason and after 9 games his play is to good to ignore.... I say send him back down with instructions to work on the weak areas of his game. Let him refine his game in juniors if he doesn't stand out in his audition with the big club.

[dudacek]

LGR is right. it's about the individual kid (even if he is wrong for prejudging whether Sam is ready)

 

It's simple: Samson should play in bUffalo if he is one of its best nine forwards.

He'll get training camp to show that, and a further nine games if the answer isn't clear.

 

Girgorenko is the wrong comparison. He wasn't ready and that is why he failed.

[Weave]

LGR is right. it's about the individual kid (even if he is wrong for prejudging whether Sam is ready)

 

It's simple: Samson should play in bUffalo if he is one of its best nine forwards.

He'll get training camp to show that, and a further nine games if the answer isn't clear.

 

Girgorenko is the wrong comparison. He wasn't ready and that is why he failed.

 

Grigo wasn't ready. He was still one of the teams 9 best forwards. Well..... he was one of the teams top 3 centers certainly.

 

Whether he is a top 9 player shouldn't matter. The only thing that should matter is, is he ready to play against the best adults in the world. I don't care if he is one of the 3 best players on the team in preseason, if he isn't ready physically, mentally, or maturity-wise I don't want him here.

[Taro T]

 

 

Grigo wasn't ready. He was still one of the teams 9 best forwards. Well..... he was one of the teams top 3 centers certainly.

 

Whether he is a top 9 player shouldn't matter. The only thing that should matter is, is he ready to play against the best adults in the world. I don't care if he is one of the 3 best players on the team in preseason, if he isn't ready physically, mentally, or maturity-wise I don't want him here.

Well stated.

[Crusader1969]

With you 100% Taro T - its not about the top 9 forwards or the top 6 D this season. This season is about making sure all prospects are playing in a league where they can best continue their developement - be it the CHL, AHL or NHL.

[dudacek]

I agree with the last few posts as an abstract.

But I am looking at it from a realistic perspective on our roster; this isn't last year's forward corps.

 

Consider this:

We have eight legitimate full-time NHL forwards: Moulson, Ennis, Stafford, Stewart, Hodgson, Gionta, Girgensons and Foligno.

We also have proven utility NHLers in McCormick, Kaleta and Mitchell, plus a handful of prospects.

If Reinhart's not more effective than the second group, send him down.

If he is better, then being in the NHL is what's best for his development.

 

It's not like Grigorenko, where they had no other centres.

It looks to me like Tim assembled a roster designed to give him a shot, but also one where he won't be forced to keep him.

They are going to make him earn it.

And if he earns it, if he shows he is better than our fourth liners and our other forward prospect, then he should be here.

[SabresBillsFan]

LGR is right. it's about the individual kid (even if he is wrong for prejudging whether Sam is ready)

 

It's simple: Samson should play in bUffalo if he is one of its best nine forwards.

He'll get training camp to show that, and a further nine games if the answer isn't clear.

 

Girgorenko is the wrong comparison. He wasn't ready and that is why he failed.

 

I would much rather them send Reinhart back to junior and work on getting stronger. You all see what Stevie Y did with his top pick last year Drioun. Sent him back to junior and that kid was damn good but I think he is going to be one of the top rookies to watch this year. Has the speed, moves and passing ability. No need to rush Reinhart. Next year I'm all for this kid earning a spot. We came this far on the tank now why abandon it in what appears to be a deep draft.

[nfreeman]

I agree with the last few posts as an abstract.

But I am looking at it from a realistic perspective on our roster; this isn't last year's forward corps.

 

Consider this:

We have eight legitimate full-time NHL forwards: Moulson, Ennis, Stafford, Stewart, Hodgson, Gionta, Girgensons and Foligno.

We also have proven utility NHLers in McCormick, Kaleta and Mitchell, plus a handful of prospects.

If Reinhart's not more effective than the second group, send him down.

If he is better, then being in the NHL is what's best for his development.

 

It's not like Grigorenko, where they had no other centres.

It looks to me like Tim assembled a roster designed to give him a shot, but also one where he won't be forced to keep him.

They are going to make him earn it.

And if he earns it, if he shows he is better than our fourth liners and our other forward prospect, then he should be here.

 

I agree with most of this post but not, critically, with the bolded part. Being better than those 4 journeymen would not necessarily mean that the NHL is the best place for him this season.

[LastPommerFan]

The odds of the first forward selected in the draft failing to make the roster are exceptionally slim. I highly doubt Samson plays another game in Juniors. It just doesn't happen very often.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[shrader]

The odds of the first forward selected in the draft failing to make the roster are exceptionally slim. I highly doubt Samson plays another game in Juniors. It just doesn't happen very often.

 

Out of curiosity, I had to check out the last time the first drafted forward didn't wind up on the NHL team that year (other than the lockout year obviously). I doubt anyone would get this off the top of their head, but it was Dany Heatley back in 2000, when he stuck around one more year at Wisconsin.

[mjd1001]

Reinhart back to Juniors this year. He'll stay with the Sabres at the beginning of the year, practice with the team as much as he can for a month, they will work him into games where they can 'protect him' (meaning only home games where they can get the matchups they want) but ultimately he will go back to Juniors, where he should be.

 

The exception to this would be if 1 of two things happen:

 

1. The Sabres have MAJOR injury issues during camp/preseason

 

2. He looks like (to everyone, including coaches) that he will instantly be a 15-20 goal, 50 point guy.

 

This team is under very little pressure to win, and is not having problems getting fans to show up. There is no reason to rush him to the big team. He may not get better in the Juniors another year, but by waiting until NEXT season to play him, he will get a year older, a year stronger/more mature, get 2 full camps in with the Sabres, possibly some time at the end of juniors with Rochester, and a full year with the Sabres training staff. Meaning, even without playing a full season with the Sabres, he will be a LOT better and a LOT more prepared for the NHL next year than he is this year.

Edited September 4, 2014 by mjd1001

[mjd1001]

Im concerned he isn't physically ready for the NHL - im sure he is mentally ready. Sure it will be fun to watch our "shiny new toy" play in Buffalo next season but if the kid isn't strong enough at this point why not let him develop further (physically) in juniors.

 

I don't mean to repeat points I made in a previous post, but I want to add to what you said above.

 

He is not going to be 'wasting away' in junior, or playing in a league with 'nothing to prove'.

-He is Sabres property now, if he goes to Juniors, he will be on a workout program and diet that will make him more NHL ready a year from now.

-He will have a taste of the NHL through camp and preseason (and maybe regular season games). He will learn what he needs to work on and hear what the Sabres need him to work on. In Juniors, he won't just be playing to win, but instead working on aspects of his game that the Sabres staff identify to him.

 

I really think the best thing for his kid (and the Sabres) would be for him to play in Junior, have his team eliminated early from the playoffs, and them for him to play with Rochester at the end of the AHL season and a run for the Amerks in the playoffs. To have him spend a few weeks, or even a month, with a lot of other younger guys in Rochester might be the best month this kid can have in preparing for the NHL.

[dudacek]

I'm amazed at how the 12th overall draft pick in 2012 arrived with sky-high first-line centre expectations and half the fan base was prepared to write him off as a total bust when he wasn't ready to be an NHL regular 18 months later.

 

Now it will be a mistake if the 2nd overall draft pick in 2014 doesn't wait 15 months before becoming an NHLer and virtually no one is trumpeting him as the long-awaited solution to our first-line centre woes.

 

Reinhart is and always has been a better prospect than Grigorenko.

Hype and context sure have a way of changing public perception.

Lucky for Samson, too bad for Grigo.

 

They both can thank Darcy for that.

[Taro T]

I'm amazed at how the 12th overall draft pick in 2012 arrived with sky-high first-line centre expectations and half the fan base was prepared to write him off as a total bust when he wasn't ready to be an NHL regular 18 months later.

 

Now it will be a mistake if the 2nd overall draft pick in 2014 doesn't wait 15 months before becoming an NHLer and virtually no one is trumpeting him as the long-awaited solution to our first-line centre woes.

 

Reinhart is and always has been a better prospect than Grigorenko.

Hype and context sure have a way of changing public perception.

Lucky for Samson, too bad for Grigo.

 

They both can thank Darcy for that.

Part of (a substantial part of) the reason for the heightened expectations for Grigorenko was his entering his draft year as the #3 prospect behind Yakupov and Galchenyuk and due to the unprecedented (?) run on D (8 of the top 10) he was still the 2nd center taken off the board even though he went at 12. If he hadn't gotten mono, he likely wouldn't have been available at 12.

 

Throw that on top of the hound's breakfast that was the Sabres' center depth entering that season: Hodgson, Ennis, McCormick, & Adam w/ Ott & Leino (with the hindsight of Hodgson's transition to wing; not a single, natural, quality top 2 center among them) in the mix and the thought of keeping him up doesn't look entirely unappealing heading into a shortened season.

 

Not sure how you can say Sam has always been a better prospect than Mikhail. They've both been considered top 3 at points and I don't recall people claiming heading into the draft that the '12 draft class was a particularly weak one, unlike the class of 14.

 

Sam could be the answer at #1 in a couple of years. If he is the answer this year, then he's RotY material. (I could see him centering the 1st line this year without truly being a #1 at present. More of an indictment on the other C's than a reflection on him.) Like you said, good for him, coming in w/ lowered expectations.

[LGR4GM]

Part of (a substantial part of) the reason for the heightened expectations for Grigorenko was his entering his draft year as the #3 prospect behind Yakupov and Galchenyuk and due to the unprecedented (?) run on D (8 of the top 10) he was still the 2nd center taken off the board even though he went at 12. If he hadn't gotten mono, he likely wouldn't have been available at 12.

 

Throw that on top of the hound's breakfast that was the Sabres' center depth entering that season: Hodgson, Ennis, McCormick, & Adam w/ Ott & Leino (with the hindsight of Hodgson's transition to wing; not a single, natural, quality top 2 center among them) in the mix and the thought of keeping him up doesn't look entirely unappealing heading into a shortened season.

 

Not sure how you can say Sam has always been a better prospect than Mikhail. They've both been considered top 3 at points and I don't recall people claiming heading into the draft that the '12 draft class was a particularly weak one, unlike the class of 14.

 

Sam could be the answer at #1 in a couple of years. If he is the answer this year, then he's RotY material. (I could see him centering the 1st line this year without truly being a #1 at present. More of an indictment on the other C's than a reflection on him.) Like you said, good for him, coming in w/ lowered expectations.

Ok I am saying this for the 1millionth time at this point. The 2014 draft class at the top, where we drafted, was not considered weak. The 2014 class was considered not to be deep after the top unlike the 2013 class and the 2015 class. That isn't the same thing as the 2014 "Being particularly weak". Again just to repeat the 2014 class was not a deep draft but the forwards and defenders available at the top are considered on par with every other draft of the past few years with the 2013 draft being perhaps the exception and it appears the 2015. That is why there is this FALSE perception that the 2014 class was weak because of depth and a lack of a MacKinnon or McDavid at the top.

 

 

As for Sam Reinhart. His #1 ability is to read the game faster than anyone else. He has already spent 3 full years in juniors. He has adjusted to the speed of that game and actually thinks it faster than everyone else. He should go to Rochester but obviously can't. He should come to camp, get his 9 games and then be evaluated on that body of work. If he shows signs of being good, let him continue to play. If he struggles like Grigorenko, send him back to the WHL.

[Hoss]

Reinhart is a better prospect than Grigs ever was. That's not a knock on Grigs, either.

[Taro T]

 

Ok I am saying this for the 1millionth time at this point. The 2014 draft class at the top, where we drafted, was not considered weak. The 2014 class was considered not to be deep after the top unlike the 2013 class and the 2015 class. That isn't the same thing as the 2014 "Being particularly weak". Again just to repeat the 2014 class was not a deep draft but the forwards and defenders available at the top are considered on par with every other draft of the past few years with the 2013 draft being perhaps the exception and it appears the 2015. That is why there is this FALSE perception that the 2014 class was weak because of depth and a lack of a MacKinnon or McDavid at the top.

 

 

As for Sam Reinhart. His #1 ability is to read the game faster than anyone else. He has already spent 3 full years in juniors. He has adjusted to the speed of that game and actually thinks it faster than everyone else. He should go to Rochester but obviously can't. He should come to camp, get his 9 games and then be evaluated on that body of work. If he shows signs of being good, let him continue to play. If he struggles like Grigorenko, send him back to the WHL.

:rolleyes:

[dudacek]

 

 

Not sure how you can say Sam has always been a better prospect than Mikhail. They've both been considered top 3 at points and I don't recall people claiming heading into the draft that the '12 draft class was a particularly weak one, unlike the class of 14.o

 

At the beginning and at the end of 2012/13, Sam was the consensus number one guy for 2014. Grigo was never the number one guy for 2012 and was only seriously in that conversation for a few months early in his draft year. Sam was never out of the conversation in his year.

 

Neither 2012, nor 2014 were considered weak drafts. They were considered average.

The "weak" perception comes from comparisons to the top end of 2013 and 2015, where McKinnon, Jones and Eichel were/are being talked up as franchise players and McDavid is getting the generational tag.

 

Reinhart is neither, but he is just as good a first-line prospect on his draft day as Barkov, Drouin, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, and Nugent-Hopkins were on theirs.

Grigorenko was not. That is why he slipped to 12.

I feel very sorry for the kid for the fact the media-created perception to the contrary was out there, and that The Sabres did everything they could to encourage it.

[LGR4GM]

:rolleyes:

I know where the emoticons are too. :beer:

 

At the beginning and at the end of 2012/13, Sam was the consensus number one guy for 2014. Grigo was never the number one guy for 2012 and was only seriously in that conversation for a few months early in his draft year. Sam was never out of the conversation in his year.

 

Neither 2012, nor 2014 were considered weak drafts. They were considered average.

The "weak" perception comes from comparisons to the top end of 2013 and 2015, where McKinnon, Jones and Eichel were/are being talked up as franchise players and McDavid is getting the generational tag.

 

Reinhart is neither, but he is just as good a first-line prospect on his draft day as Barkov, Drouin, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, and Nugent-Hopkins were on theirs.

Grigorenko was not. That is why he slipped to 12.

I feel very sorry for the kid for the fact the media-created perception to the contrary was out there, and that The Sabres did everything they could to encourage it.

Agreed.