Weave Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I suppose I should have titled it "The setup is done, now we execute the plan", because apparently the concept of this season being both a tank and a setup that leads to a season where there is no tank, is way too complex. I'll reserve judgement on whether next season is a tank season for when player movement is made. As far as I am concerned whether or not we are tanking comes down to simply, are we making moves to elevate our draft position or are we making moves to better the on ice product for that season. IMO this season was all about getting as high on the draft board as we could. That's a tank. If next season appears that the focus is on team development and not draft position I think we will be able to put the tank meme away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) I'll reserve judgement on whether next season is a tank season for when player movement is made. As far as I am concerned whether or not we are tanking comes down to simply, are we making moves to elevate our draft position or are we making moves to better the on ice product for that season. IMO this season was all about getting as high on the draft board as we could. That's a tank. If next season appears that the focus is on team development and not draft position I think we will be able to put the tank meme away. I'll believe it when I see it. That really is the most reasonable stance at this point. Even with the best intentions, the whole thing could still go horribly wrong. Even if Murray has every intention of trading off certain pieces for what he thinks improves this team right now, the other team still has to sign off on that deal as well. We've got a long way to go before we see what the plan is and we may not even get the chance to see it. And if anyone wants to give him credit now based off of his words alone, I give you one sentence: "We'll give you the tools to finish the job." Judge them on their actions, not on their words. Edited April 16, 2014 by shrader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I like when you post this stuff because I miss things sometimes but please not the same link in multiple threads. Not everyone reads all threads and it's applicable to both discussions. Should I even consider your advice given your redundant thread start from yesterday? Please take your own advice before trying to lecture me. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 So what should we call it? Zamboni apocalypse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Basically, they aren't going into the offseason and next season with the goal being they want McDavid. TM has said there will be turnover of the roster, and they will be active in FA and in Trades (word is that pretty much every player has a for sale sign hung on them) Will they be a cup contender next year? No Will they be a solid playoff team next year? No Will they be a team fighting for a shot at one of the wild card spots in the playoffs? Maybe but most likely not Will they be a better team and not at the bottom of the league again? Yes I have no doubt that TM will be very busy this offseason, and many of their collected assetts will be used in deals to obtain guys that will make this team better. I don't expect them to be in the market for guys who can only provide immediate help, but they will be going after guys who are either about to break out. Murray has already shown this by obtaining guys like Conacher, someone with experiance in the league now that can help and has potential to get better, and Neuvirth who he has said he thinks can be good. Theres going to be a few surprise moves this offseason in trades of guys some might have thought wouldn't get moved (Ehrhoff? Grigorenko? Enroth?) but might be able to get them some decent young player who has potential to be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'll reserve judgement on whether next season is a tank season for when player movement is made. As far as I am concerned whether or not we are tanking comes down to simply, are we making moves to elevate our draft position or are we making moves to better the on ice product for that season. IMO this season was all about getting as high on the draft board as we could. That's a tank. If next season appears that the focus is on team development and not draft position I think we will be able to put the tank meme away. I expect next season to be team development. All indicators from Tim are that this is his plan. He's going to keep players where he wants them and fill holes on the big club in the mean time, whether it be via trade or free agency or bringing some of the more "ready" kids up full time. I just don't think he expects the team to be any better than it was this year and we shouldn't expect it to be either. But we certainly wont be selling off assets. We've done that already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 While I agree the tank won't be intentional, where does TM expect to get what he himself. Said we lacked.......talent. Tank on......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'll reserve judgement on whether next season is a tank season for when player movement is made. As far as I am concerned whether or not we are tanking comes down to simply, are we making moves to elevate our draft position or are we making moves to better the on ice product for that season. IMO this season was all about getting as high on the draft board as we could. That's a tank. If next season appears that the focus is on team development and not draft position I think we will be able to put the tank meme away. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 There's plenty of room for improvement and development and still be the worst team in the league. Call it whatever the hell you want, but you can be sure that we will be among a handful of teams in the McDavid / Eichel conversation at this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Can we change the name of this thread to "The official thread of semantics"? They're going to suck but they're not going to try to suck. What exactly is the point? Does the "but hey, these guys are trying" point of view really make a bad season that much more palatable? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) TM has said there will be turnover of the roster, and they will be active in FA and in Trades (word is that pretty much every player has a for sale sign hung on them) Will they be a cup contender next year? No Will they be a solid playoff team next year? No Will they be a team fighting for a shot at one of the wild card spots in the playoffs? Maybe but most likely not Will they be a better team and not at the bottom of the league again? Yes I think to even consider playoffs is borderline lunacy. So, I agree with "most likely not." The lowest wild card spot this year recorded 39 more points than us this season, equating to 20 more wins (95% more wins). The lowest goals for by a wildcard spot was 50 more goals (31% more) but that team allowed 42 fewer goals than us (17% fewer). If we allowed the same number of goals again, we'd need something like 82 more goals (52%more) to make a wildcard spot. So if we don't improve or defensively or in net, we'd need to add at least three 25 goal scorers in the off season. Should the GM take steps to ensure the development of the kids? YES. Should the GM get the roster in a place where we can support the kids when they're ready to play in the NHL? YES. Should the GM get the roster in a place where the team fails to make the playoffs next year? Doesn't matter, it's pretty much inevitable next year. Should the GM get the roster in a place where the draft assets we sacrificed for are weakened by not finishing bottom-five? HELL NAW. Edited April 16, 2014 by IKnowPhysics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I'll reserve judgement on whether next season is a tank season for when player movement is made. As far as I am concerned whether or not we are tanking comes down to simply, are we making moves to elevate our draft position or are we making moves to better the on ice product for that season. IMO this season was all about getting as high on the draft board as we could. That's a tank. If next season appears that the focus is on team development and not draft position I think we will be able to put the tank meme away. This is a good way of looking at things, but still: there are plenty of moves that could be made that would improve the team right away but wouldn't, if not made, constitute tanking. For example: Vancouver offers the Sabres Kesler for their #1 pick this year (or in 2015), or for Girgensons plus a #2. That trade would clearly improve the on-ice product right away, but wouldn't really do much good and would be a bad move for the franchise in the long term. Yet if the Sabres declined the trade, that wouldn't be a "tanking" decision -- just a good hockey decision. Not everyone reads all threads and it's applicable to both discussions. Should I even consider your advice given your redundant thread start from yesterday? Please take your own advice before trying to lecture me. ;) Yet another reason not to start a redundant thread -- it opens you up to irrefutable attacks like this one. A mortal wound, to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 I expect next season to be team development. Exactly. Those young players that can play in the NHL will, in an environment and roles where they can succeed. Those young players that aren't ready yet, won't be rushed. A coaching staff and a handful of veterans will be put in place in Buffalo and Rochester help make development happen. Tim will continue to make trades to acquire players he likes more than the ones he has. The talent level in the NHL will increase and the competitive edge will increase. We will score more and allow more. We will be in more games with our share of embarrassing disasters sprinkled in along the way. We may improve 10 or 15 points in the standings. And all that will almost certainly add up to another top five pick. Call it what you want. There's plenty of room for improvement and development and still be the worst team in the league. Call it whatever the hell you want, but you can be sure that we will be among a handful of teams in the McDavid / Eichel conversation at this time next year. Or, more succinctly, this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 While I agree the tank won't be intentional, where does TM expect to get what he himself. Said we lacked.......talent. Tank on......... Too many people have been ruined by the lowered expectations of having an imbecile GM for too long A GOOD GM can acquire talent through many methods like trades, FA and the draft. This idea that you need to have a Crosby talent to be a winner is not true, the pens have him, a #2 overall pick in malkin, a #1 overall pick in net, plus others and yet they have only been able to win 1 cup since the lockout. The Bruins don't have a one fo these types of players and they have a cup and are favorites to win this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 GMTM plans on being in the draft lottery next year. Count on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Words are figurative representations both tangible and intangible phenomenon. The connection between those representations and their represented phenomena are referred to as "meanings". The agreement of all parties on the meanings of those words is not always maintained in all conversations. This problem usually results in the use of additional words, many of which will not have consistent mutually agreed upon meanings. A common word used to represent this particular phenomenon is the "Internet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 GMTM plans on being in the draft lottery next year. Count on it. Sure, but it doesn't mean he plans on/expects to have the best odds or to be in the top 5 with the Sabres own pick......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Sure, but it doesn't mean he plans on/expects to have the best odds or to be in the top 5 with the Sabres own pick......... We can qualify this all we want, "tank" or whatever, but next year is a building year. Murray and Nolan aren't planning on making the playoffs or making the moves necessary to put the best possible team on the ice. So whatever is between not trying to lose and not doing the things necessary to make the playoffs - that's what Buffalo will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 So the tank is over (and now we're just bad)? :P This is up there with the grammar thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 For all of the credit Murray seems to get for being a straight shooter and a refreshing change of rhetoric from Regier, he sure managed to say things yesterday in a way that gave everyone something to hang their hat on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 For all of the credit Murray seems to get for being a straight shooter and a refreshing change of rhetoric from Regier, he sure managed to say things yesterday in a way that gave everyone something to hang their hat on. Weasel? Hmmmm......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 Sure, but it doesn't mean he plans on/expects to have the best odds or to be in the top 5 with the Sabres own pick......... i just cant imagine what they can do to get out of the bottom 3 in the league. i believe he said one of the goals is to win the calder cup in an interview on GRback in Feb. to me, that means prospects in ahl and players like McBain in Nhl. Fans who want the Sabres out of the bottom 5 teams in the league must not have seen McDavid or Eichel play. People, put up with the tank for 1 more season and sit back and watch this team grow into legitimate cup contenders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 <snip> People, put up with the tank for 1 more season and sit back and watch this team grow into legitimate cup contenders I'd be much more impressed with your crystal ball if you had posted the winning lottery numbers for this Friday and Saturday's drawings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 We can qualify this all we want, "tank" or whatever, but next year is a building year. Murray and Nolan aren't planning on making the playoffs or making the moves necessary to put the best possible team on the ice. So whatever is between not trying to lose and not doing the things necessary to make the playoffs - that's what Buffalo will be. I believe the idea is called "not mortgaging the future for minimal success next season". It's all a balance. TM could probably: - Trade pick #2 for a top-6 wing on the last year of his contract - Trade Girgensons and a pick for something similar - Package Ehrhoff and a pick for yet another top-6 forward at the end of a contract - Throw a ton of money at Callahan and Ott - Hang on to Stafford (based on the end of this season) and let him walk as a UFA Would the team be better next season? Yes, maybe even in the Wildcard hunt if the young D play well. Would the team be better the seasons after that? Absolutely not. The Sabres are in a position of weakness, especially in terms of UFAs. They could start trading in assets, but that's unlikely to help in the long run. There's only two ways out of the basement: trades and time. I'll take time, since the trade route would seem less likely to bring the real result we're all looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 16, 2014 Report Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) We can qualify this all we want, "tank" or whatever, but next year is a building year. Murray and Nolan aren't planning on making the playoffs or making the moves necessary to put the best possible team on the ice. So whatever is between not trying to lose and not doing the things necessary to make the playoffs - that's what Buffalo will be. If that were true, and there nothing to say it will be, then the League should be able to step in and fine the franchise while taking away their picks in the draft cause thats basically Tanking and robbing your fans i just cant imagine what they can do to get out of the bottom 3 in the league. i believe he said one of the goals is to win the calder cup in an interview on GRback in Feb. to me, that means prospects in ahl and players like McBain in Nhl. Fans who want the Sabres out of the bottom 5 teams in the league must not have seen McDavid or Eichel play. People, put up with the tank for 1 more season and sit back and watch this team grow into legitimate cup contenders Yup, grab a seat along with the oilers fans, next to the panthers fans, and there may be some Islanders fans in there too! Edited April 16, 2014 by apuszczalowski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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