Andrew Amerk Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Generational talents rarely ever bust. I won't say never, but I can't think of one. I'm talking generational, can't-miss number one picks. Alexandre Daigle. He was labeled "can't-miss."
Hoss Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Alexandre Daigle. He was labeled "can't-miss." We've got one winner... Can we get another?
Kristian Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Patrik Stefan was someone I'd cry myself to sleep over wasting a no. 1 pick on, but "can't miss"? Maybe not.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Wasn't talking about any league other than the NHL, for the record. So Leaf is irrelevant. Alex Daigle was a once in a generation talent..... Pat Falloon was can't miss. Jason Bonsignore was all that....heck....he probably posts here.... You are drafting boys in many cases..... Alexandre Daigle. He was labeled "can't-miss." YEAH!
LastPommerFan Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 They rarely ever missed in the top 2. They miss even less now. A lot has changed in amateur scouting in the last 21 years.
Trettioåtta Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 They rarely ever missed in the top 2. They miss even less now. A lot has changed in amateur scouting in the last 21 years. In the last 10 years. Since the internet has become a thing it is different. Especially European players, which were often selected late because few other teams had been able to go and see them. That doesn't happen anymore. Whilst not as good as the real thing, video-scouting is still very viable, if for no other reason than getting players on scouts radars
shrader Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 In the last 10 years. Since the internet has become a thing it is different. Especially European players, which were often selected late because few other teams had been able to go and see them. That doesn't happen anymore. Whilst not as good as the real thing, video-scouting is still very viable, if for no other reason than getting players on scouts radars The 2005-06 season is a decent cutoff to use due to the changed system from the lockout. Things have definitely picked up since then. The days of the Daigle-style busts and the Lindros power grabs are gone. So much of the risk is gone. It's still there, but it's not what it once was. And then there's the European players as you mentioned. Not only is it easier to see them now, but teams also don't have to deal with the uncertainty of getting them over to the states like they used to.
Andrew Amerk Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 We've got one winner... Can we get another? Patrik Stefan was a bust, but I don't remember him being labeled "can't-miss."
nfreeman Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Well considering the Sabres finished one of the worst seasons in modern NHL history and are going to take the #12 guy on that list as their reward most likely....it just shows you how idiotic the idea of tanking is. Like PA and his movie Nebraska.....we just drove 2,000 miles for a $5 hat...... Well, I've been anti-tank for a while, but I'd say the Sabres' tanking results this year are more an indictment of Darcy -- classic day late and dollar short, since the time to do it was last year, with a short season and a better draft -- than of tanking generally. We've got one winner... Can we get another? Alexei Yashin.
Hoss Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Alex Daigle was a once in a generation talent..... Pat Falloon was can't miss. Jason Bonsignore was all that....heck....he probably posts here.... You are drafting boys in many cases..... Daigle is still the only good example. I said first overall picks. Generational talents don't go 2nd and 4th...
skaught Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Daigle is still the only good example. I said first overall picks. Generational talents don't go 2nd and 4th... Which is why people shouldn't bring up Ryan Leaf, he went 2nd overall, Peyton Manning went 1st in that draft...
krt88 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 If I were the Islanders, I would keep the pick. Lots of things went wrong this year. The goal-tending was awful, the team suffered lots of injuries, the franchise player JT was hurt for a long period. It was a storm of bad things. Therefore, I would trust the team will improve next year, take the risk of giving up a high pick in the worst possible year and hope I can be a playoff team. The Sabres would be OK but not thrilled with the 17th pick in the draft. I might try to trade the #5 pick this year to another team to try to provide some top 6 depth and maybe a 2nd round pick next year because not having both the 1st and 2nd round pick next year will be difficult.
shrader Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) They were 22-30-8 at the olympic break, good for 52 points in 60 games (0.87 points per game). They went 12-7-3 after the olympic break, good for 27 points in 22 games (1.23 points per game). So they actually put up more points after losing Tavares. So their problems go way beyond his injury. Fixing those is an awfully tall order, especially the goaltending. I don't agree with this assumption that it is given that they will improve next year, especially with Snow calling the shots. edit: I hand counted that pre-Olympic record, so it is possible that I messed that up. Edited April 17, 2014 by shrader
krt88 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 If I was grading the top picks in this year vs. next year draft: scale of 1-100 hey I'm not a scout but I'm so hoping we grab Reinhart. 91-100 = A 81-90 = B 2014 Sam Reinhart, C (2014) - 90 (love the IQ and play making) Aaron Ekblad, D (2014) - 92 (looks like a franchise type defensemen) Sam Bennett, C (2014) - 88 (hard to play against with willingness to go to scoring areas) Michael Dal Colle, W (2014) - 83 (NHL winger's frame and a shot to go with it) Leon Draisaitl, C (2014) - 85 (skating is questionable but compete level and skill is not) 2015 Connor McDavid, C (2015) - 98 (can't say anything that hasn't already been said) Jack Eichel, C (2015) - 97 (Steven Stamkos like ability) Noah Hanifin, D (2015) - 90 (big mobile defensemen) Matthew Barzal, C (2015) - I haven't seen enough tape on this guy (read great things about his play making skills) Pavel Zacha, W (2015) - I haven't seen enough tape on this guy (big and strong winger) Colin White, C (2015) - 90 (could end up being higher next season) Oliver Kylington, D (2015) -85 (amazing in the AHL skills competition) Travis Konecny, C (2015) -85 Dylan Strome, C (2015) -88 Paul Bittner, W (2015) - 88
Derrico Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 They were 22-30-8 at the olympic break, good for 52 points in 60 games (0.87 points per game). They went 12-7-3 after the olympic break, good for 27 points in 22 games (1.23 points per game). So they actually put up more points after losing Tavares. So their problems go way beyond his injury. Fixing those is an awfully tall order, especially the goaltending. I don't agree with this assumption that it is given that they will improve next year, especially with Snow calling the shots. edit: I hand counted that pre-Olympic record, so it is possible that I messed that up. Wow, I had just looked up the stats on this and was going to reply with this exact same thing. Then as I'm scrolling down I see you had already done it. Nicely done. The Isles sucked last year with Tavares (and Vanek the majority of the time) in the lineup.
Koomkie Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 The thing I don't get, don't you think that EVERY team is going to attempt to get better next year? Nyi are not the only team that will need goaltending or d or strong wingers. And it has been proven over the last few years that FAs do not want to go there. Looking at the rams that finished directly above them I really do not see them passing them in the standings next year. It is going to take a lot of work and whomever they pick in the fifth is not going to help out either. I just don't agree that the islanders will be good next year. Rams = teams. Autocorrect
WildCard Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 The thing I don't get, don't you think that EVERY team is going to attempt to get better next year? Nyi are not the only team that will need goaltending or d or strong wingers. And it has been proven over the last few years that FAs do not want to go there. Looking at the rams that finished directly above them I really do not see them passing them in the standings next year. It is going to take a lot of work and whomever they pick in the fifth is not going to help out either. I just don't agree that the islanders will be good next year. Rams = teams. Autocorrect To be fair St.Louis probably has the toughest division in the NFL.
beerme1 Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 To be fair St.Louis probably has the toughest division in the NFL. And to fair we're not even sure yet if their number 1 in Bradford is a long term answer.
shrader Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 The thing I don't get, don't you think that EVERY team is going to attempt to get better next year? Nyi are not the only team that will need goaltending or d or strong wingers. And it has been proven over the last few years that FAs do not want to go there. Looking at the rams that finished directly above them I really do not see them passing them in the standings next year. It is going to take a lot of work and whomever they pick in the fifth is not going to help out either. I just don't agree that the islanders will be good next year. Rams = teams. Autocorrect I'll take that one step further. If a team's goal is to construct a Stanley Cup winner, that does not mean that the goal each and every single year is to improve over the previous season. As we know all too well right now, sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to move towards that long term goal. We can come up with an endless list of examples where this has happened. Depending on what the Islander plan is, it may not necessarily call for a better team next year.
Koomkie Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 I'll take that one step further. If a team's goal is to construct a Stanley Cup winner, that does not mean that the goal each and every single year is to improve over the previous season. As we know all too well right now, sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to move towards that long term goal. We can come up with an endless list of examples where this has happened. Depending on what the Islander plan is, it may not necessarily call for a better team next year. very true. I feel they will keep the pick this year and trade it for a player available now. Someone like Kesler. Vancouver maybe a team that pushes for a mini rebuild
TrueBlueGED Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 I'll take that one step further. If a team's goal is to construct a Stanley Cup winner, that does not mean that the goal each and every single year is to improve over the previous season. As we know all too well right now, sometimes you have to take a few steps back in order to move towards that long term goal. We can come up with an endless list of examples where this has happened. Depending on what the Islander plan is, it may not necessarily call for a better team next year. The more I think about it, the more I can't imagine a team forfeiting a top-5 pick for no immediate return if they don't have to (yea yea the trade, but you know what I mean). I'm not saying doing so would be the wrong move since I think there's a legitimate argument to be made to give it up, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around a team actually pulling the trigger on it.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Daigle is still the only good example. I said first overall picks. Generational talents don't go 2nd and 4th... Reinhart is about to.....case in point....
Hoss Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 Reinhart is about to.....case in point.... Uhhhh... What? This conversation isn't about Reinhart... Nobody has said he's a generational talent.
carpandean Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Reinhart Eichel is about to.....case in point.... There, that makes more sense. Edited April 17, 2014 by carpandean
Hoss Posted April 17, 2014 Report Posted April 17, 2014 There, that makes more sense. Much closer. But Eichel still isn't a generational talent.
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