shrader Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 So if you're the Islanders, your choice comes down to getting Micheal Dal Colle (probably) or giving up on McDavid (and really anything in the 1st round for the deepest draft in years). If I'm them, I still keep the pick. Dal Colle is a great prospect. Also, flipping that pick for an NHL player would get them value and probably make next year's pick (which would be ours) less valuable. It sucks being in a position where your best hope is that your competition does the dumbest thing possible. Is either option really dumb though? I still say there is a good argument to be had for keeping either pick. All I know is that they'll be monitoring Tavares' rehab with a microscope over the next month.
North Buffalo Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Is either option really dumb though? I still say there is a good argument to be had for keeping either pick. All I know is that they'll be monitoring Tavares' rehab with a microscope over the next month. Yes that is a valid point. I think the Sabres do well either way. I don't have a problem with 2 top 5 picks this year or routing for the Isle's to tank next year if they don't give us the pick. Not a bad position to be in. Trade the Hoff near the deadline next year for another #1 in next year's draft and I think you have something going or trade him this year for Edmonton's #1 this year if the Isles decide to defer. Wonder if Edmonton would go for that. Could through in Stafford or Leino to sweeten er sour the pot.... :devil:
LGR4GM Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 If you get St. Louis' 1st rounder....offer it to NY to give up the #5 and keep their pick next year. Screw this lottery stuff. At this time last year everyone was saying Reinhart was the can't miss #1...now he's being talked about 4 or 5 from some. Even if NY and Buf finish 29, 30....there is still less than a 50% chance you get McDavid. I would rather get 2, top 5 forwards this year...let them simmer in juniors a year....then you call the whole gang up in '15-'16 and make a splash in free agency during the summer. If you get one of the top 2 with your pick next year, fine. That shouldn't be the goal. Again, you don't trade for a pick you already own. Even if the defer, so be it, you still already paid for it. At most I could see TM saying hey we will give you a 2nd this year or next if you let us pick this year. Who is talking about Reinhart at 5?
Assquatch Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Again, you don't trade for a pick you already own. Even if the defer, so be it, you still already paid for it. At most I could see TM saying hey we will give you a 2nd this year or next if you let us pick this year. Who is talking about Reinhart at 5? It's not trading for a pick you already have. It's trading for the pick to be on your schedule rather than the islanders schedule. You want the islanders to give up their right? You have to give them something. I also disagree with trading them something to get the pick sooner, but you're misrepresenting it to make it sound like a worse idea than it is.
shrader Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 It's not trading for a pick you already have. It's trading for the pick to be on your schedule rather than the islanders schedule. You want the islanders to give up their right? You have to give them something. I also disagree with trading them something to get the pick sooner, but you're misrepresenting it to make it sound like a worse idea than it is. There might be a decent price point where the trade would actually make sense, but it sure as hell isn't a first rounder.
nfreeman Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I'm in the camp that is fine with whatever the Islanders do. Two top-5 picks in even a lesser draft sounds pretty good -- and there's a a recent interview on the WGR vault with an NHL scouting guy saying that the guys at the top of this draft are really good. OTOH, I think the Islanders are going to stink next year, which would give the Sabres two shots at a potential franchise guy. I think the Islanders will keep their pick this year and give the Sabres their 2015 pick.
TrueBlueGED Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I'm in the camp that is fine with whatever the Islanders do. Two top-5 picks in even a lesser draft sounds pretty good -- and there's a a recent interview on the WGR vault with an NHL scouting guy saying that the guys at the top of this draft are really good. OTOH, I think the Islanders are going to stink next year, which would give the Sabres two shots at a potential franchise guy. I think the Islanders will keep their pick this year and give the Sabres their 2015 pick. I'm with you. I also think the "weak draft" thing has been overplayed. Yes, it's not loaded, but the top guys this year are still in the Lindolm/Monahan class, whom many of us were salivating over getting last year.
Eleven Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I'm in the camp that is fine with whatever the Islanders do. Two top-5 picks in even a lesser draft sounds pretty good -- and there's a a recent interview on the WGR vault with an NHL scouting guy saying that the guys at the top of this draft are really good. OTOH, I think the Islanders are going to stink next year, which would give the Sabres two shots at a potential franchise guy. I think the Islanders will keep their pick this year and give the Sabres their 2015 pick. I would prefer the Isles' pick this year, but I'm not going to cry in my whisky about it if it doesn't happen.
Weave Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 It's not trading for a pick you already have. It's trading for the pick to be on your schedule rather than the islanders schedule. You want the islanders to give up their right? You have to give them something. I also disagree with trading them something to get the pick sooner, but you're misrepresenting it to make it sound like a worse idea than it is. It is a terrible misrepresentation. It is trading to get a known quantity vs retaining an unknown quantity. And there is most definitely value in that. Are the Sabres interested in making it a known quantity or are they comfortable with their assessment of the Islanders situation, and would the Isles and Sabres even agree on what the proper value is in turning that pick into a known quantity? All good, honest questions.
Derrico Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I kind of like the idea that i will have another huge interest in watching a team next year…ill probably be rooting for them to lose more than I'm rooting for the sabres to win…in fact, ill probably be rooting for both teams to lose! :w00t: I also think it would be awesome if the sabres and the isles were the two worst teams in the league next year. Not only would it guarantee us one of mcdavid/eichel, and give u a 50/50 shot at both, but i think it would be hilarious to watch the lottery on tv and possibly have it come down to the top 2, which would both be the sabres haha. So, we have the sabres and the sabres, who's it gonna be folks? I know it's very highly unlikely but let's not forget about that Blues pick. Maybe Miller doesn't resign.....
Huckleberry Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 I'm in the camp that is fine with whatever the Islanders do. Two top-5 picks in even a lesser draft sounds pretty good -- and there's a a recent interview on the WGR vault with an NHL scouting guy saying that the guys at the top of this draft are really good. OTOH, I think the Islanders are going to stink next year, which would give the Sabres two shots at TWO potential franchise guys. I think the Islanders will keep their pick this year and give the Sabres their 2015 pick. Corrected it and this is how i see it :P
LGR4GM Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Imagine the Islanders defer, suck bad next year. So the NYI finish say 7th and then win the lottery... we finish last and therefore own the 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in 2015.
Derrico Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Imagine the Islanders defer, suck bad next year. So the NYI finish say 7th and then win the lottery... we finish last and therefore own the 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in 2015. Dal Colle is going to be a good player in this league. It's the dream of a slim chance that the above plays out that makes me more than ok with the Isles defering the pick to next year. If that were to happen the Buffalo Sabres would be a dynasty for the next 10+ years.
PotentPowerPlay22 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 What would you do?? No way would I as a general manager give up a top pick. I think the Sabres will only get one top pick this year and Islanders will do all they can to improve so our pick is really high. How embarrassing to an organization giving up such a high pick This is not as difficult as most people think. The Isles will definitely keep the pick at #5 this year. It would be crazy to do otherwise. A top 5 pick is a premium pick and you don't give them away unless you know that you are planning to get rid of your star players next year. I don't see them getting rid of Tavares, Okposo, Strome, etc anytime soon. The only way next year's pick could possibly be better is if they intentionally tank and they have given no indication they will do so. The Islanders probability of keeping this year's pick is 98%.
sabre snipe Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Imagine the Islanders defer, suck bad next year. So the NYI finish say 7th and then win the lottery... we finish last and therefore own the 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in 2015. or, why no go bigger and have the isles and the sabres finish 29th and 30th, and the blues finish one spot out of the playoffs (after winning the cup this year) and win the lottery with their 0.5% chance, giving us the 2nd, 29th, 31st this year, and the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 31st, and 32nd next year…what? I'm dreaming? NOOOO DONT WAKE ME UP!!!
LGR4GM Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 or, why no go bigger and have the isles and the sabres finish 29th and 30th, and the blues finish one spot out of the playoffs (after winning the cup this year) and win the lottery with their 0.5% chance, giving us the 2nd, 29th, 31st this year, and the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 31st, and 32nd next year…what? I'm dreaming? NOOOO DONT WAKE ME UP!!! If the scenario actually played out somehow... I think I might actually pee myself.
dudacek Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 The fact no one vaulted over the Isles this year is huge. Dal Colle will be the most talented prospect we've had since Vanek. And there is a pretty good chance whoever is available with the New York pick next year will be even better. It's no-lose for Buffalo.
LTS Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Is there any team willing to trade for that #5 pick? The Isles have to think about shopping that pick now that it's theirs to give up. The other question, what GMs are willing to give up a lottery pick in next year's draft? It's something to think about when saying that the Sabres (or anyone) can trade something away to get another shot in that draft
MattPie Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) If you get St. Louis' 1st rounder....offer it to NY to give up the #5 and keep their pick next year. Screw this lottery stuff. At this time last year everyone was saying Reinhart was the can't miss #1...now he's being talked about 4 or 5 from some. Even if NY and Buf finish 29, 30....there is still less than a 50% chance you get McDavid. I would rather get 2, top 5 forwards this year...let them simmer in juniors a year....then you call the whole gang up in '15-'16 and make a splash in free agency during the summer. If you get one of the top 2 with your pick next year, fine. That shouldn't be the goal. Two problems: We may not be sure we have St Louis' 1st by June 1st when NYI needs to decide, and we'll look pretty silly if we give away a 1st round pick just to have the Islanders turn out to be terrible next year. Edited April 16, 2014 by MattPie
shrader Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Two problems: We may not be sure we have St Louis' 1st by June 1st when NYI needs to decide, and we'll look pretty silly if we give away a 1st round pick just to have the Islanders turn out to be terrible next year. We may not know "officially" but I'd say it is a safe bet that if the Blues do not make it to the conference finals, Miller will not be returning. If by some chance they do miss out and still re-sign him in the offseason, they'd be crazy to do it prior to the draft. Even Miller would want to delay the signing so as not to cost a high value asset to his new team.
bob_sauve28 Posted April 16, 2014 Author Report Posted April 16, 2014 This is not as difficult as most people think. The Isles will definitely keep the pick at #5 this year. It would be crazy to do otherwise. A top 5 pick is a premium pick and you don't give them away unless you know that you are planning to get rid of your star players next year. I don't see them getting rid of Tavares, Okposo, Strome, etc anytime soon. The only way next year's pick could possibly be better is if they intentionally tank and they have given no indication they will do so. The Islanders probability of keeping this year's pick is 98%. I think you are right. If I'm the idiot GM that got the Islanders in such a stupid situation--Over Vanek!--I'd take the pick, try to sign some vets and finish as high as I possibly could just to save the embarassment of a super high pick going to a rival. Garth Snow is a total moron. I love our postion here, even if we end up with a middle round pick out of this next year, that's fine. I hope he is stupid enough to give us this pick, but can he really be that dumb? Well, since that is a thread about the "NHL Draft," and this is specifically about ONE aspect of the NHL draft...it seems obvious that if you want to talk about the Islanders deferment of their pick, you would come to this thread, rather than sift through 60 pages of other stuff that have nothing to do with this specific subject. I never understood that here, that is the point of a message board...to open threads on different subjects. Why be so broad and cover 100 different subjects in ONE thread that is 60+ pages, rather than open new threads for different subjects? Makes no sense. That's why TBD has grown so much since I started following back in high school 14 years ago. And it continues to grow and be great. A perfect example is that NHL draft thread that is 60 pages long. What if people just want to discuss the Islanders pick, while some others just want to discuss Sam Reinhart vs. Sam Bennett? Or someone else wants to compare goalie prospects? That right there alone is 3 different subjects being discussed in one giant clusterf**k of a thread, that becomes hard to follow. Just my opinion, which is not worth much...but I am sure there are others who share the same feelings. Thank you.
ddaryl Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Two problems: We may not be sure we have St Louis' 1st by June 1st when NYI needs to decide, and we'll look pretty silly if we give away a 1st round pick just to have the Islanders turn out to be terrible next year. If St Louis in in the Conference finals we get the 1st. That should happen before June 1 OR if Miller signs a long term deal Edited April 16, 2014 by ddaryl
beerme1 Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 Well, since that is a thread about the "NHL Draft," and this is specifically about ONE aspect of the NHL draft...it seems obvious that if you want to talk about the Islanders deferment of their pick, you would come to this thread, rather than sift through 60 pages of other stuff that have nothing to do with this specific subject. I never understood that here, that is the point of a message board...to open threads on different subjects. Why be so broad and cover 100 different subjects in ONE thread that is 60+ pages, rather than open new threads for different subjects? Makes no sense. That's why TBD has grown so much since I started following back in high school 14 years ago. And it continues to grow and be great. A perfect example is that NHL draft thread that is 60 pages long. What if people just want to discuss the Islanders pick, while some others just want to discuss Sam Reinhart vs. Sam Bennett? Or someone else wants to compare goalie prospects? That right there alone is 3 different subjects being discussed in one giant clusterf**k of a thread, that becomes hard to follow. Just my opinion, which is not worth much...but I am sure there are others who share the same feelings. Well that's just great. Now that you've spoken up the thread police will monitoring you're move. Be careful friend. Be very careful. Don't let them get you.
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 This is not as difficult as most people think. The Isles will definitely keep the pick at #5 this year. It would be crazy to do otherwise. A top 5 pick is a premium pick and you don't give them away unless you know that you are planning to get rid of your star players next year. I don't see them getting rid of Tavares, Okposo, Strome, etc anytime soon. The only way next year's pick could possibly be better is if they intentionally tank and they have given no indication they will do so. The Islanders probability of keeping this year's pick is 98%. Exactly. NY was a popular pick to make the playoffs this year. They even took a shot at Vanek. You can't assume they will even have a lottery pick next year. Even if you discount their chances of making the playoffs to 20%.....and they finish dead last, you only get a 20% chance of that pick landing you McDavid. Overall with a 20% chance of making the playoffs, the odds of NY's pick ending up #1 is 5%. That's why this whole tanking plan in the first place was idiotic. Snow is going to use the pick. The fans hate him and he needs to show something. That is why I say try to get the pick this year from them this year. If snow uses the pick, then the Isles stink and they don't have a 1st next year...Snow is probably a goner. If you can give the Isles something of value to give up this year...it makes sense for Snow. If it is players, the Isles immediately improve. If it is St. Louis' 1st, then the Isles have a 1st this year and next year. I said from day 1 they use the pick if it is in the top 10 let alone 5. I'd much rather have Bennett and Dal Cole seasoning in juniors this year, then next year you call up the whole lot of them...AND...you still have your own #1 which is much more likely to land McDavid than a crapshoot on the Isles.
shrader Posted April 16, 2014 Report Posted April 16, 2014 NY was a popular pick to make the playoffs this year. They even took a shot at Vanek. But why were they? I look at them a lot like I look at Toronto. The Isles have 1 playoff appearance in the last 7 years and it just happened to come in a 48 game season. This is a team with a consistent history of bad hockey and they still have the same exact people running the show (at least Toronto has mixed it up a bit). Why are we expecting anything different from them?
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