What if Tim Murray.....

[26CornerBlitz]

In particular, I think people forget about JT Compher and especially Hudson Fasching who might have been USAs best player at the World Juniors. Joel Armia is still only 20 and may come around as he learns the North American game. With some time in Rochester Grigorenko may well develop into the player that he has the potential to be. William Carrier is another guy who might surprise.

 

...the point being these guys just need time and shouldn't be written off just yet.

 

 

 

Given how often he is a healthy scratch, I don't think there is even a question Ville will be gone next year. I do think there is a chance Ott resigns given he is close with Weber and could be Captain of the team again. I would love to see Moulson back, but I'm sure that is just wishful thinking. I agree that we'd need to overpay to get those guys, but there is plenty of cap room and Pegula likes to spend like a drunken sailor.

 

I've heard Black and Murray say on a couple of occasions that the Sabres won't go all out with spending to the cap until they feel the team is really ready to compete on a championship level. We all know that it will not be in the 2014-15 season. Buckle up!

[nucci]

I don't call it progress. I don't care about progress. Leave the kids in Rochester/Jr's to develop. Hell, I hope every NHL ready prospect stays at the ROC next year and they make a run at the cup. The top pick is all that matters next year, anything else is a failure.

Interesting.

[Hoss]

 

 

I'm beginning to think that Leino will be on the team next year. His salary makes it possible to get to the floor.

 

It'll be easy to get to the floor without Leino. He's done. I'd bet on it.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

I'm beginning to think that Leino will be on the team next year. His salary makes it possible to get to the floor. I do not think Moulson, Ott nor Callahan will ever step foot on the Sabres ice wearing the blue and gold. The only way thay happens is to grossly over pay these guys and no one should consider that.

.

 

I agree with free agents but Leino will probably be gone!

 

 

 

I've heard Black and Murray say on a couple of occasions that the Sabres won't go all out with spending to the cap until they feel the team is really ready to compete on a championship level. We all know that it will not be in the 2014-15 season. Buckle up!

 

Free agents will be added when we have some solid youngsters progressing at the nhl level. Don't be surprised if Stafford and/or Stewart get moved on draft day or during next years trade deadline,

Edited April 11, 2014 by SabresBillsFan

[beerme1]

 

 

It'll be easy to get to the floor without Leino. He's done. I'd bet on it.

 

I think pretty highly of GMTM. I thinking that the day after the season locker room clean out they put an envelope with a big fat check in it and Ville is never seen in North America again. If he doesn't get rid of him that quickly (league rules permitting) I will think less of him. You can over pay anyone and get more out of them than what we get from him.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

I think pretty highly of GMTM. I thinking that the day after the season locker room clean out they put an envelope with a big fat check in it and Ville is never seen in North America again. If he doesn't get rid of him that quickly (league rules permitting) I will think less of him. You can over pay anyone and get more out of them than what we get from him.

 

I think Ville will be good as gone come offseason

[Hoss]

I think pretty highly of GMTM. I thinking that the day after the season locker room clean out they put an envelope with a big fat check in it and Ville is never seen in North America again. If he doesn't get rid of him that quickly (league rules permitting) I will think less of him. You can over pay anyone and get more out of them than what we get from him.

 

The buyout window won't open until June.

[Hank]

 

 

No... It isn't.

 

Yes...it is.

[Trettioåtta]

I would be surprised if we tank as hard as we did this season. I think next year they make a push to be out of the bottom 5. At the very least I would not expect a 15 point difference between us and 29th (or whatever the current difference is). I also think everyone here equates a tank with McDavid/Eichel, which it just doesn't. This year we are getting a good player. Not an elite hang your franchise on them player. Mike Richards style. Next year, outside those two, I think we could end up in the same situation.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Well I might as well bring it up for the millionth time...what other method of team building guarantees anything? I'm interested to hear what it is so that we can trump all the other GM's and move on to that plan.

 

Edit: And it isn't just about a top 5 pick, it's about the multitude of picks that DR/TM garnered in the first two rounds. So if you're right and an elite player is there hiding in the weeds, the Sabres have better chance of getting that guy, no?

 

Totally agree with this.....but to pile on about the top 3 overall picks - looking over the past 15-20 years, it's difficult to find a top 3 pick who was a disappointment. The odds tell us that we will be getting two high impact players over the next two years, which is added to the stable we've already assembled. We have even more lines in the water with the wealth of 2nd round picks as well.

[Trettioåtta]

Totally agree with this.....but to pile on about the top 3 overall picks - looking over the past 15-20 years, it's difficult to find a top 3 pick who was a disappointment. The odds tell us that we will be getting two high impact players over the next two years, which is added to the stable we've already assembled. We have even more lines in the water with the wealth of 2nd round picks as well.

 

Bad - Yakupov, Bogosian, Turris, Barker (7%)

 

Dissapointing - Gudbranson, Hubardeau, Van Riemsdyk,J Staal, E Johnson, Ryan, J Johnson (26%)

 

So whilst it is unlikely we would get a 'bad' player (Barker is probably the only truly bad player); there is over 1/3 chance that we get someone who is just a secondary player that can't carry your franchise (another Vanek)

Edited April 11, 2014 by ThirtyEight

[Hoss]

 

 

Bad - Yakupov, Bogosian, Turris, Barker (7%)

 

Dissapointing - Gudbranson, Hubardeau, Van Riemsdyk,J Staal, E Johnson, Ryan, J Johnson (26%)

 

So whilst it is unlikely we would get a 'bad' player (Barker is probably the only truly bad player); there is over 1/3 chance that we get someone who is just a secondary player that can't carry your franchise (another Vanek)

 

Really confused by this post. Turris is getting better and better. Bogosian is a solid young defender. Huberdeau had a great rookie year. Bobby Ryan is a perennial 30-goal scorer. Jack Johnson is a top-4 guy. JVR is turning into a stud.

[Trettioåtta]

Really confused by this post. Turris is getting better and better. Bogosian is a solid young defender. Huberdeau had a great rookie year. Bobby Ryan is a perennial 30-goal scorer. Jack Johnson is a top-4 guy. JVR is turning into a stud.

 

It is not really about objective ability of the player but the fact they were top 3. Stephan had an alright career but is considered the biggest bust of the draft by many. If I am drafting top 3 I want that player that you can hitch your franchise to.

 

Turris might be getting better, but he is still around the 0.5ppg mark. He was the highest ranked player going into the draft, meanwhile Stamkos is a 60 goal scorer. Side note but I think this could be a Bennet/Reinhart situation, but that is just a gut feeling.

 

Bogosian is an ok young defenceman, but he is hardly Drew Doughty or Victor Hedman

 

Huberdeau had a good rookie year but I just haven't felt he was very dangerous in a while (but he is very young so it is too early to truly tell)

 

Ryan was drafted 2nd overall and hovers around the 50s whilst playing most of his career on a power play with Perry and Getslaf. I've never been hot on him, so maybe this is just a bias

 

Johnson is a top 4 guy, true. But if I am drafting top 3 I want more than that. I would take Pysyk over Johnson

 

JVR is showing flashes but he is still not dominating the game

 

My point is that I want a player who changes the game when he steps on the ice. You can pick up good players in the rest of the draft. I want great players

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

I'd argue that most great players are selected at the very top end of the draft. Which sadly makes the tank the right thing to do, and if we throw big money at people next year that raise our draft position up to 10th or higher, we've lost a great opportunity.

 

I ran the numbers during the tail end of the game since I was on the edge of my seat watching the action. Since 1995, the top 3 picks have combined for 20,521 points. The remainder of the first round in the same timeframe has only 53,044. Top line talent matters.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

It is not really about objective ability of the player but the fact they were top 3. Stephan had an alright career but is considered the biggest bust of the draft by many. If I am drafting top 3 I want that player that you can hitch your franchise to.

 

Turris might be getting better, but he is still around the 0.5ppg mark. He was the highest ranked player going into the draft, meanwhile Stamkos is a 60 goal scorer. Side note but I think this could be a Bennet/Reinhart situation, but that is just a gut feeling.

 

Bogosian is an ok young defenceman, but he is hardly Drew Doughty or Victor Hedman

 

Huberdeau had a good rookie year but I just haven't felt he was very dangerous in a while (but he is very young so it is too early to truly tell)

 

Ryan was drafted 2nd overall and hovers around the 50s whilst playing most of his career on a power play with Perry and Getslaf. I've never been hot on him, so maybe this is just a bias

 

Johnson is a top 4 guy, true. But if I am drafting top 3 I want more than that. I would take Pysyk over Johnson

 

JVR is showing flashes but he is still not dominating the game

 

My point is that I want a player who changes the game when he steps on the ice. You can pick up good players in the rest of the draft. I want great players

 

Who doesn't want great players. That's what every team wants but the good organizations either draft them in the top of the draft unless you are the Red Wings and either find them in Europe! We all seen when Buffalo drafts in the teens what kind of players they get. Some People want this this team to tank others don't. You don't want the tank be prepared to see what you seen from a lot of Buffalo teams and that's an also-ran with no chance at the Cup. Management is sold on the Pittsburgh model of rebuilding. This would have been sped up if Darcy would have started the fire sale last year and had a shot at MacKinnon. All these late runs of being mediocre killed draft positions numerous times.

[Weave]

Who doesn't want great players. That's what every team wants but the good organizations either draft them in the top of the draft unless you are the Red Wings and either find them in Europe! We all seen when Buffalo drafts in the teens what kind of players they get. Some People want this this team to tank others don't. You don't want the tank be prepared to see what you seen from a lot of Buffalo teams and that's an also-ran with no chance at the Cup. Management is sold on the Pittsburgh model of rebuilding. This would have been sped up if Darcy would have started the fire sale last year and had a shot at MacKinnon. All these late runs of being mediocre killed draft positions numerous times.

 

You can't assume that if we aren't drafting at the top that we would automatically be mired in mediocrity. Darcy wasn't able to build a successful team with middle of round drafting positions. But Darcy isn't doing the drafting anymore. And he's not making the trades any more. And he's not choosing the FA's any more.

[Eleven]

Can someone fix the title of this?

 

What if TIm Murray....

 

...takes a ###### on a polar bear?

 

...is arrested for breaking and entering into a nunnery?

 

...invades Ukraine?

 

...asks chz out on a date?

 

...asks weave out on a date?

 

...tells John Scott that he must become a brony?

 

...etc.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

You can't assume that if we aren't drafting at the top that we would automatically be mired in mediocrity. Darcy wasn't able to build a successful team with middle of round drafting positions. But Darcy isn't doing the drafting anymore. And he's not making the trades any more. And he's not choosing the FA's any more.

 

You want top 6 players you need to draft high or really doing your homework on these young players. McDavid and Eichel are so worth the tank for next year . Just like most scouts said about this years top 5 they will be good players but don't compare to last years top players.

[Weave]

You want top 6 players you need to draft high or really doing your homework on these young players. McDavid and Eichel are so worth the tank for next year . Just like most scouts said about this years top 5 they will be good players but don't compare to last years top players.

 

Right. Thanks for making my point for me.

 

Can someone fix the title of this?

 

What if TIm Murray....

 

...takes a ###### on a polar bear?

 

...is arrested for breaking and entering into a nunnery?

 

...invades Ukraine?

 

...asks chz out on a date?

 

...asks weave out on a date?

 

...tells John Scott that he must become a brony?

 

...etc.

 

 

:wub:

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

You can't assume that if we aren't drafting at the top that we would automatically be mired in mediocrity. Darcy wasn't able to build a successful team with middle of round drafting positions. But Darcy isn't doing the drafting anymore. And he's not making the trades any more. And he's not choosing the FA's any more.

 

Aren't you more likely to be mired in mediocrity though?

[Weave]

Aren't you more likely to be mired in mediocrity though?

 

Maybe? It isn't like there aren't examples of successful teams that didn't tank for two seasons.

 

Boston sure didn't need to tank. Neither did Detroit. Are they outliers? Could be. Or rmaybe they just have player evaluation staff who know what the feck they are doing. Yes, Boston has picked very high in the draft. Once. And they parlayed what they got into pieces that they needed to win a cup. They didn't need to tank to pick up Rask, Chara, Lucic, or any of their other key pieces. They have an organization that knows how to evaluate talent and build a team. Buffalo under Regier couldn't do that well enough to get beyond high level mediocrity. And we've become accustomed to it for so long that I guess we now assume that no GM can build a team without a couple years of picking at the top of the order.

Edited April 11, 2014 by weave

[Hoss]

Maybe? It isn't like there aren't examples of successful teams that didn't tank for two seasons.

 

If you expand it to teams that "didn't draft in the top five for two seasons" then there's only one recent example of a team that didn't: Detroit.

 

You are definitely more likely to be mediocre if you don't draft high. Talent is better at the top. That's how the draft works. Obviously there are many exceptions, but most supreme talents come at the top.

 

And Darcy hasn't been drafting for a while now, for the record.

[Iron Crotch]

Maybe? It isn't like there aren't examples of successful teams that didn't tank for two seasons.

 

Boston sure didn't need to tank. Neither did Detroit. Are they outliers? Could be. Or rmaybe they just have player evaluation staff who know what the feck they are doing. Yes, Boston has picked very high in the draft. Once. And they parlayed what they got into pieces that they needed to win a cup. They didn't need to tank to pick up Rask, Chara, Lucic, or any of their other key pieces. They have an organization that knows how to evaluate talent and build a team. Buffalo under Regier couldn't do that well enough to get beyond high level mediocrity. And we've become accustomed to it for so long that I guess we now assume that no GM can build a team without a couple years of picking at the top of the order.

 

To add to this, the Ducks are one of the top teams this year. They have 2 of the NHLs top 4 scorers: Getzlaf who went 19th overall and Perry who went 28th.

 

The Blues are one of the top teams this year. Their top scorers are Steen (24th overall), Oshie (24th overall), and Backes (2nd round, 62nd overall).

 

There are a lot of ways to field a good team and it need not involve intentionally trying to be bad. It does involve getting above average returns via the draft and trades. That's where we'll see what Murray brings relative to Darcy.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

Maybe? It isn't like there aren't examples of successful teams that didn't tank for two seasons.

 

Boston sure didn't need to tank. Neither did Detroit. Are they outliers? Could be. Or rmaybe they just have player evaluation staff who know what the feck they are doing. Yes, Boston has picked very high in the draft. Once. And they parlayed what they got into pieces that they needed to win a cup. They didn't need to tank to pick up Rask, Chara, Lucic, or any of their other key pieces. They have an organization that knows how to evaluate talent and build a team. Buffalo under Regier couldn't do that well enough to get beyond high level mediocrity. And we've become accustomed to it for so long that I guess we now assume that no GM can build a team without a couple years of picking at the top of the order.

 

You also forgot they turned that Toronto trade elevated them when they traded Kessel. Didn't they get Rask in that trade and then they ended up drafting Seguin. Boston drafted well I must say and they are putting guys into empty spots when they arrive.

 

 

 

To add to this, the Ducks are one of the top teams this year. They have 2 of the NHLs top 4 scorers: Getzlaf who went 19th overall and Perry who went 28th.

 

The Blues are one of the top teams this year. Their top scorers are Steen (24th overall), Oshie (24th overall), and Backes (2nd round, 62nd overall).

 

There are a lot of ways to field a good team and it need not involve intentionally trying to be bad. It does involve getting above average returns via the draft and trades. That's where we'll see what Murray brings relative to Darcy.

 

First off that draft with Getzlaf and Perry is one of the best draft ever as it had a ton of players being impact players in round 1. And if I recall Tim Murray was a scout that wanted Getzlaf and Perry.

[Darryl Shannon's +/-]

Maybe? It isn't like there aren't examples of successful teams that didn't tank for two seasons.

 

Boston sure didn't need to tank. Neither did Detroit. Are they outliers? Could be. Or rmaybe they just have player evaluation staff who know what the feck they are doing. Yes, Boston has picked very high in the draft. Once. And they parlayed what they got into pieces that they needed to win a cup. They didn't need to tank to pick up Rask, Chara, Lucic, or any of their other key pieces. They have an organization that knows how to evaluate talent and build a team. Buffalo under Regier couldn't do that well enough to get beyond high level mediocrity. And we've become accustomed to it for so long that I guess we now assume that no GM can build a team without a couple years of picking at the top of the order.

 

I think Boston's success is all rooted in Chara, and to do that they paid a huge price early in his contract. There were lean years until his long term contract became less of an albatross. That said, there hasn't been a free agent on the market with his skill level since the last lockout as teams have gotten smarter and extended their best players before free agency becomes an issue. This makes drafting well (and early in my opinion) even more important.

 

And calling the entire Regier occupation high level mediocrity isn't fair either. Current state of this team, sure. But there was a lot of really good hockey in the 99-07 timeframe that should be recognized and appreciated.