Buffalo Bills 2014

[Johnny DangerFace]

Presumably, at least some fans have seen Orton play football, right? He's a fine backup, but if he starts 12 straight you're getting the same result you would with EJ.

 

Sometimes great weapons can make an average competent QB look better than he is. Manuel isn't playing competent. Real question (i forget the WRs orton has had), but has orton ever got a chance with playmakers like watkins, woods, spiller, jackson, and williams?

[TrueBlueGED]

Sometimes great weapons can make an average competent QB look better than he is. Manuel isn't playing competent. Real question (i forget the WRs orton has had), but has orton ever got a chance with playmakers like watkins, woods, spiller, jackson, and williams?

 

He had Brandon Marshall in Denver, and was in Dallas last year. Can argue the lack of weapons thing for his time in Chicago, but not the rest.

 

Edit: For whatever it's worth, Manuel's stats in his first 13 starts are quite a bit better than Orton's in his.

 

Edit 2: I'm not saying Orton will be worse...just that he'd be about the same, minus any kind of upside (even if EJ hitting that upside seems quite remote right now).

Edited September 28, 2014 by TrueBluePhD

[SwampD]

Spiller also needs to run North an South. Sometimes it's better to get definitely get 3 yards than maybe get 20 yards (but actually lose 4).

[inkman]

Spiller also needs to run North an South. Sometimes it's better to get definitely get 3 yards than maybe get 20 yards (but actually lose 4).

He'll never figure that out. Chan recognized it and got the ball into Spiller's hand in the right spot. In motion, past the line of scrimmage, or on the edges.

[wjag]

I think we should also remember that the Bills O-line sported two rooks today.

[Hoss]

In the category of "you're an idiot and it's WAY too soon for that": Kevin Hogan. Stanford QB. Strong arm. Accurate.

[nfreeman]

As Inky has indicated upthread, the only good thing about a loss like this is that it will help convince TP to clean house after the season.

 

And their 2nd-rounder next year will be a bit higher in the round.

 

Does anyone think they won't go 6-10 again?

 

[Johnny DangerFace]

As Inky has indicated upthread, the only good thing about a loss like this is that it will help convince TP to clean house after the season.

 

And their 2nd-rounder next year will be a bit higher in the round.

 

Does anyone think they won't go 6-10 again?

 

 

Games where we are at least equal or better than: Dolphins, Jets, jets, Vikings, Chiefs, Browns, Raiders

 

Games where we are over our head: Patriots, Patriots, Lions, Packers

 

Games where we are way over our head: Broncos

 

 

So I think think we are in that 7-9 and 9-7 range

Edited September 29, 2014 by Numark

[nfreeman]

 

Did I not say EJ was awful?

 

It's not that they lost, it's that when it mattered most, they were not given a chance to win,… a chance that I have seen other teams get. And that's with EJ being as bad as he was.

 

Oh, and show me the last time a player took off his helmet to complain and didn't get a penalty.

 

Yes, you said EJ was awful, but you persist in claiming that somehow the refs are holding the Bills back and the Bills are being treated unfairly -- even though after last week's discussion on this nonsensical point we know that last year the Bills got the fifth-most calls in the NFL to their benefit.

 

They have been completely outclassed two weeks in a row -- and this week by a lousy team.

 

It's not the refs. It's just not.

[Hoss]

As Inky has indicated upthread, the only good thing about a loss like this is that it will help convince TP to clean house after the season.

 

And their 2nd-rounder next year will be Kevin Hogan, Stanford's QB.

 

Does anyone think they won't go 6-10 again?

 

Looking at the schedule I see 7-9. But we'll see.

[SwampD]

Yes, you said EJ was awful, but you persist in claiming that somehow the refs are holding the Bills back and the Bills are being treated unfairly -- even though after last week's discussion on this nonsensical point we know that last year the Bills got the fifth-most calls in the NFL to their benefit.

 

They have been completely outclassed two weeks in a row -- and this week by a lousy team.

 

It's not the refs. It's just not.

And like I said last week but you chose not to hear, that is a moot stat. Bills opponents were penalized less than the Bills during the games in which they played the Bills. In any game game that is decided by one score, to say that the officials don't and often have an impact on the outcome of those games is just naive. Or you're just too cool for school to admit it.

 

Explain to me how punting from the back of the end zone is the same as a first and ten from the 18.

[LastPommerFan]

every argument that isn't "we need to get the right quarterback" is trivial nonsense until:

 

A) we get the right quarterback, or

B) they change the rules to de-emphasis the passing game

 

EJ is becoming absolutely everything I thought he would become. If one of his apologists could kindly let me know when the appropriate number of games lost by his inability to read and throw at NFL accuracy have elapsed to assess his value, I would greatly appreciate it.

Edited September 29, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[SwampD]

every argument that isn't "we need to get the right quarterback" is trivial nonsense until:

 

A) we get the right quarterback, or

B) they change the rules to de-emphasis the passing game

 

EJ is becoming absolutely everything I thought he would become. If one of his apologists could kindly let me know when the appropriate number of games lost by his inability to read and throw at NFL accuracy have elapsed to assess his value, I would greatly appreciate it.

Yep. If it was one thing or the other, you could live with it. If he was accurate but making bad decisions, or inaccurate but making mart plays, you could see waiting on him. He ain't doin' neither right now. oof.

 

It sucks, too, because i truly believe that all he has to do is lean into his throws and throw off of his front foot and his accuracy problems would be fixed.

[nfreeman]

 

And like I said last week but you chose not to hear, that is a moot stat. Bills opponents were penalized less than the Bills during the games in which they played the Bills. In any game game that is decided by one score, to say that the officials don't and often have an impact on the outcome of those games is just naive. Or you're just too cool for school to admit it.

 

Explain to me how punting from the back of the end zone is the same as a first and ten from the 18.

 

It's not a moot stat. You continue to insist there is some shadowy conspiracy among the refs the screw the Bills, but the stats don't support it. Yes, the Bills were called for some small fraction (was it 0.13 flags per game?) of a penalty more per game than their opponents. But the Bills were not in the top 5 most penalized teams, and in fact were in the top 5 in terms of benefiting from the refs' calls. There is simply no way to reconcile those facts with your "theory."

 

You watched that abomination of a game, and the first and third paragraphs of your 3-paragraph post after the game were about the refs.

 

In order to solve a problem, you first need to acknowledge the problem. The Bills have hired losers and made terrible decisions for 15 years. That's their problem. Blaming the refs is an excuse that allows the people who espouse it to ignore the real problem.

[SwampD]

It's not a moot stat. You continue to insist there is some shadowy conspiracy among the refs the screw the Bills, but the stats don't support it. Yes, the Bills were called for some small fraction (was it 0.13 flags per game?) of a penalty more per game than their opponents. But the Bills were not in the top 5 most penalized teams, and in fact were in the top 5 in terms of benefiting from the refs' calls. There is simply no way to reconcile those facts with your "theory."

 

You watched that abomination of a game, and the first and third paragraphs of your 3-paragraph post after the game were about the refs.

 

In order to solve a problem, you first need to acknowledge the problem. The Bills have hired losers and made terrible decisions for 15 years. That's their problem. Blaming the refs is an excuse that allows the people who espouse it to ignore the real problem.

I never blamed the refs for the loss.

[SwampD]

Also, if you throw out that outlier of a Jets game where they were given 20 penalties, you are not even bringing it up.

[nfreeman]

Also, if you throw out that outlier of a Jets game where they were given 20 penalties, you are not even bringing it up.

 

Of course I'm not bringing up outliers. The whole point is that the calls, like the coin tosses, even out over time.

 

And how can you say you didn't blame the refs? The game ends and you immediately put up a post that is 2/3 about the refs.

 

The Bills have gotten exactly what they've earned for the last 15 years -- ie this is what you get when you fire good GMs and coaches, replace them with bargain-bin losers and refuse

to pay your good players enough to keep them. No more, no less, and the refs have had ####-all to do with it.

[JJFIVEOH]

It's just another step towards me no longer caring about football, period. The NFL and the Bills can thank fantasy football for the fact I still have any care left. I've already given up on a couple of sports that I gradually cared less and less about; football's next. Nothing is going to change.

[SabresBillsFan]

Here's my question. How long before we see Orton as the starter. EJ is a bust and to me he is holding back what could be a possibly be a dynamic offense. The Bills have weapons up front with a QB that can't get these guys the ball. The sad thing is if they actually a decent QB they would be 4-0 right now instead of 2-2. Which will probably be 2-3 after next week in Detroit.

[JJFIVEOH]

Orton could be a good alternative. He was never a terrible QB, in fact he frequently put up some huge numbers. He might be prone to interceptions, but he can also move the ball down the field. When EJ can't even come up with a first down and the Bills defense stops the opposition, the Bills have had terrible field position the last two games. In my opinion the Bills have too many offensive weapons to be playing with a conservative QB. I've always been on the side of letting a QB learn for two years before expecting too much out of him (too many QB's have been wasted because teams nowadays want instant gratification). But the Bills can't wait, I see them as an exception. It's just been way too long since a postseason appearance. Let EJ ride the bench for the rest of this year and possibly next year and learn. This team is good enough all around where they can make the postseason with Orton. EJ didn't learn anything last year between limited playing time and no experienced QB along side of him. Basically, this is almost a rookie year. I don't think he isn't the solution, but he's not ready.

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

The Bills have gotten exactly what they've earned for the last 15 years -- ie this is what you get when you fire good GMs and coaches, replace them with bargain-bin losers and refuse

to pay your good players enough to keep them. No more, no less, and the refs have had ####-all to do with it.

 

I agree but I will take it further how many decent players left after their rookie contract expires. I've been saying this for years. Piss poor GM's and coaches and any decent player leaves= how many years of not making the playoffs. Bills are a revolving door which I hope will stop now once Pegulas take over. People of Buffalo deserve better.

[inkman]

Here's my question. How long before we see Orton as the starter. EJ is a bust and to me he is holding back what could be a possibly be a dynamic offense. The Bills have weapons up front with a QB that can't get these guys the ball. The sad thing is if they actually a decent QB they would be 4-0 right now instead of 2-2. Which will probably be 2-3 after next week in Detroit.

None of the Bills offensive players are dynamic. They are who we thought they were.

[Hoss]

 

None of the Bills offensive players are dynamic. They are who we thought they were.

 

Watkins definitely is. A few drops doesn't change that. Spiller is but Chan seemed to be the only one to use him. Health is an issue there.

[Johnny DangerFace]

Spiller looked very good again today...

[JJFIVEOH]

Spiller looked very good again today...

 

Again? Take away his 47 and 22 yard runs this year and he's averaging 2.2 yards per carry on 35 carries. He's been more useless than EJ.