LastPommerFan Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Based on what evidence? I was jumping to this conclusion, too, but I have come back down to see that the NFL won't allow Buffalo to move if there's even a semi-legitimately way to keep the team around. They'll always have relocation options, even though I don't think LA will be one by the time Buffalo can move, but I just don't think that they'll value another market over Buffalo. The NFL doesn't get any value out of Buffalo that they wouldn't get out of any other mid-size city in North America. and Far less value than they'd get out of a huge city like LA or Toronto. The NFL values TV eye-balls. And they'll lose very few moving the team out of buffalo, we'll just watch the steelers, jets, or giants, and they could potentially could gain millions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 The NFL doesn't get any value out of Buffalo that they wouldn't get out of any other mid-size city in North America. and Far less value than they'd get out of a huge city like LA or Toronto. The NFL values TV eye-balls. And they'll lose very few moving the team out of buffalo, we'll just watch the steelers, jets, or giants, and they could potentially could gain millions. I don't think you're right there. When you're counting TV eyeballs, you have to count the diaspora, too. When I lived out of Buffalo, I did not miss a freaking game. (The team sucked then, too.) I've been back for ten years, and I'm more comfortable missing a game on TV now than I was then. Buffalo has a HUGE "alumni" population, so if your theory is on, you've got to count them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I don't think you're right there. When you're counting TV eyeballs, you have to count the diaspora, too. When I lived out of Buffalo, I did not miss a freaking game. (The team sucked then, too.) I've been back for ten years, and I'm more comfortable missing a game on TV now than I was then. Buffalo has a HUGE "alumni" population, so if your theory is on, you've got to count them. My theory is that the bills fans will become fans of their local team whether here or in they're migratory homes. LA and Toronto are so big they could lose 100% of the buffalo eye-balls, get 10% of the new city eyeballs, and still come out ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 My theory is that the bills fans will become fans of their local team whether here or in they're migratory homes. LA and Toronto are so big they could lose 100% of the buffalo eye-balls, get 10% of the new city eyeballs, and still come out ahead. OK. I just have to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) My theory is that the bills fans will become fans of their local team whether here or in they're migratory homes. LA and Toronto are so big they could lose 100% of the buffalo eye-balls, get 10% of the new city eyeballs, and still come out ahead. It's not just about number of viewers. That's not how ratings or shares work. Edited April 1, 2014 by Tankalicious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's not just about number of viewers. That's not how ratings it viewer shares work. this is exactly how national rankings work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) LA does not care about football. They just don't. Toronto would need a new stadium, as well. Looking at all the TV markets, Buffalo is 52 (I never realized that New Orleans was the same size as Buffalo at 51). Almost every one larger either already has an NFL team or is close enough one to be fans of those teams. Others are NASCAR cities. If you remove LA (which I would) there really aren't that many cities that would support an NFL team like Buffalo. I would think Jacksonville would move before the Bills. Edited April 1, 2014 by SwampD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Those big TV "eyeballs" are a double-edged sword in L.A. The Rams and Raiders often placed THIRD in their timeslots on Sunday afternoons. When you draw less viewers than reruns of 'Gilligan's Island', you have a problem with local affiliates in huge TV markets. The NFL can't leverage a large TV market in LA as much as some think. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 this is exactly how national rankings work. The Bills had the 11th best ratings in the local markets last year. Is that because they had the most viewers? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 The Bills had the 11th best ratings in the local markets last year. Is that because they had the most viewers? No. The NFL doesn't care about the buffalo local market. They care about the National Market that their TV partners get to sell ad space on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 LA does not care about football. They just don't. Toronto would need a new stadium, as well. Looking at all the TV markets, Buffalo is 52 (I never realized that New Orleans was the same size as Buffalo at 51). Almost every one either already has an NFL team or is close enough one to be fans of those teams. Others are NASCAR cities. If you remove LA (which I would) there really aren't that many cities that would support an NFL team like Buffalo. I would think Jacksonville would move before the Bills. Not when you factor in the ENTIRE viewing region. Indeed, when including Toronto and Southern Ontario, it's the 4th largest TV market in North America. The problem is translating Canadian TV viewership into ad dollars large enough to be chased. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 (edited) LA does not care about football. They just don't. I completely agree with this, but I can see the NFL execs saying something along the lines of, "they did it wrong before, we can do better." Edited April 1, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 With that screen name? It's one thing to have hope, but this market has been gutted enough that it puts a big ticket item such as sn NFL team at risk of leaving. And that risk is of such a nature that it will force the inevitable. U all know dam well of what I speak. Talking a good game about fighting the good fight is horse ######. It's just best to accept reality. Based on what evidence? I was jumping to this conclusion, too, but I have come back down to see that the NFL won't allow Buffalo to move if there's even a semi-legitimately way to keep the team around. They'll always have relocation options, even though I don't think LA will be one by the time Buffalo can move, but I just don't think that they'll value another market over Buffalo. Horse crap, and u know it. The NFL doesn't care about the buffalo local market. They care about the National Market that their TV partners get to sell ad space on. Bingo!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 The NFL doesn't care about the buffalo local market. They care about the National Market that their TV partners get to sell ad space on. Are the NFL's ratings really going to go up that much by putting a team in LA? LA already watches a ton of football, and benefits from getting the marquee match ups every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Haven't the Bandits won a bunch of times? Yep. And if we're counting CFL championships, gotta go w/ roller hockey as well. +1 for the Stampede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopefulFuture Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Are the NFL's ratings really going to go up that much by putting a team in LA? LA already watches a ton of football, and benefits from getting the marquee match ups every week. LA is one of several potential markets that are being considered I'm sure. The fact remains that there are larger population centers available and those markets offer more than just TV ad sales. There is projected growth rates population wise, merchandise sales increase to be sure and larger tax base to support the team on multiple issues a stadium faces. Traffic flow and so on. In short, there are better locations for the Bills from a business perspective. This fact, no matter the spin put out by hardcore fans, is just not disputable in the world of reality. Cold hard facts suck for Buffalo. I blame Regier for this :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Not when you factor in the ENTIRE viewing region. Indeed, when including Toronto and Southern Ontario, it's the 4th largest TV market in North America. The problem is translating Canadian TV viewership into ad dollars large enough to be chased. GO BILLS!!! Is it really about the tv market in LA or is it more about they money they're going to draw in from corporate interests and the luxury boxes in any stadium out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I posted about the plaintiffs' shareholder lawyer looking to buy the Islanders, and thanked my lucky stars for the somewhat eccentric Terry Pegula. Now I read that a group's courting the Donald to be part of a group that buys the Bills. :death: Also, count me in the camp of those who believe that the money-making machine that is the NFL will not abide the Bills being in Buffalo indefinitely. I expect the current lease to be the team's last in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I posted about the plaintiffs' shareholder lawyer looking to buy the Islanders, and thanked my lucky stars for the somewhat eccentric Terry Pegula. Now I read that a group's courting the Donald to be part of a group that buys the Bills. https://twitter.com/...978364237815808 :death: Also, count me in the camp of those who believe that the money-making machine that is the NFL will not abide the Bills being in Buffalo indefinitely. I expect the current lease to be the team's last in Buffalo. I wonder if the NFL would ever let a 'free radical' such as the Donald be part of the fraternity, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Is it really about the tv market in LA or is it more about they money they're going to draw in from corporate interests and the luxury boxes in any stadium out there? It's ALL about the new owner deriving revenue from those corporate interests, luxury boxes, and more disposable entertainment dollars in the region. My only point is that LA as a big TV market is and never has been the driver behind the NFL putting a team there. Viewership has been riding a crest since LA lost their last team. LA is valuable to the other owners because the value of a team there will increase the value of all franchises. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's ALL about the new owner deriving revenue from those corporate interests, luxury boxes, and more disposable entertainment dollars in the region. wholeheartedly agree. the NFL is a tee-vee ratings behemoth -- i don't think its expansion plans hinge on whether a market will track the existing ratings. i think the NFL is instead focused on how much dough the stadium itself is going to generate for the franchise. at some point, this business model is a bubble that will burst. at some point, the brand will alienate a critical mass of the people who make the machine run. at some point, there will be no atmosphere to speak of at home games because just about everyone in attendance will be in a suite, box, concourse bar, etc. i just don't see these things happening any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 wholeheartedly agree. the NFL is a tee-vee ratings behemoth -- i don't think its expansion plans hinge on whether a market will track the existing ratings. i think the NFL is instead focused on how much dough the stadium itself is going to generate for the franchise. at some point, this business model is a bubble that will burst. at some point, the brand will alienate a critical mass of the people who make the machine run. at some point, there will be no atmosphere to speak of at home games because just about everyone in attendance will be in a suite, box, concourse bar, etc. i just don't see these things happening any time soon. Here's to hoping the bubble bursts before the Bills' lease is up. Traditional markets should have a greater relative worth at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 It's ALL about the new owner deriving revenue from those corporate interests, luxury boxes, and more disposable entertainment dollars in the region. My only point is that LA as a big TV market is and never has been the driver behind the NFL putting a team there. Viewership has been riding a crest since LA lost their last team. LA is valuable to the other owners because the value of a team there will increase the value of all franchises. GO BILLS!!! And since it is all about upping everyone's value, I would hope they'd eventually start at the bottom of the list when they do move someone. Oakland still looks like the prime candidate (I'm shocked every time I hear that they have the lowest value in the league). We're definitely a prime candidate by that metric, but hopefully they'll find a taker at the very bottom of the list before they move up a couple slots to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 And since it is all about upping everyone's value, I would hope they'd eventually start at the bottom of the list when they do move someone. Oakland still looks like the prime candidate (I'm shocked every time I hear that they have the lowest value in the league). We're definitely a prime candidate by that metric, but hopefully they'll find a taker at the very bottom of the list before they move up a couple slots to us. Jacksonville, Oakland and St. Louis are all prime candidates from everything I've read. They have more dire stadium issues, and attendance issues. Even with the Bills failing to sell out the last 2 - 3 home games, attendance isn't that terrible. We;re typically only 1k - 2k away from a sellout, in a 70k stadium. We're the 11th largest stadium, and we're putting $130 mil into renovating it. Hell, NYS is investing into this. I figure as long as Goodell is Commiss, being from western NY and knowing the impact of the Bills on the region, there won't be a relocation. According to a few articles though, in order to maintain that regionalizing and increase income, their next stadium needs to be further north to accommodate those Canadians... I'm not optimistic or pessimistic, I'm just rolling with the punches right now. and I plan to be at at least 2 games this year (one warm game with the girl, and one cold game with my buds at a minimum). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Jacksonville, Oakland and St. Louis are all prime candidates from everything I've read. They have more dire stadium issues, and attendance issues. Even with the Bills failing to sell out the last 2 - 3 home games, attendance isn't that terrible. We;re typically only 1k - 2k away from a sellout, in a 70k stadium. We're the 11th largest stadium, and we're putting $130 mil into renovating it. Hell, NYS is investing into this. I figure as long as Goodell is Commiss, being from western NY and knowing the impact of the Bills on the region, there won't be a relocation. According to a few articles though, in order to maintain that regionalizing and increase income, their next stadium needs to be further north to accommodate those Canadians... I'm not optimistic or pessimistic, I'm just rolling with the punches right now. and I plan to be at at least 2 games this year (one warm game with the girl, and one cold game with my buds at a minimum). Attendance really doesn't matter at this point. That's not the prime source of revenue generation. As K9 was suggesting, these teams are pulling the majority of their money from the corporate backers in their region. That is something that is always going to hurt Buffalo as a market. The teams you mentioned, as well as Buffalo are going to be the prime targets until someone actually moves to LA. According to the Forbes rankings, those are the bottom four teams (#32. Oakland, #31. Jax, #30. Buffalo, #29 St. Louis). As far as Goodell's influence playing a role, I think that is over-hyped. Sure he's from Buffalo, but you don't get to the head of the NFL by handing out favors to your hometown. He is going to do what is financially best for the NFL and its owners. If moving the Bills lines their pockets better than any other move, he won't get in the way of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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