Weave Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Twitter starting to come alive with reports of Kyle Orton signing. Huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Twitter starting to come alive with reports of Kyle Orton signing. Huh. One year contract for Orton. I don't mind the move. He is a journeyman, but is better than Tuel/Lewis should EJ get hurt. http://www.dallasnew...ffalo-bills.ece Edit: The Seahawks released Terrelle Pryor. He might have been an option. Edited August 30, 2014 by Potato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 So you are basically accusing them of trying to improve their team and if it doesn't work it will mean they unethically made a move contrary to the best interest of the franchise. Well, if they in fact acted unethically, it will have been unethical regardless of whether or not the gamble pays off. Bills. Reading TBD makes me sick these days and I'd really like to see the team shut them up. But I just can't take another season of sucking. Sir, I'm afraid I have some bad news. Sorry if I went a little far but I take unsubstantiated accusations pretty seriously. Your last statement wasn't what I considered ridiculous or beneath you. In fact, I'm not even sure you are wrong but questioning the ethics of two people based on nothing but your opinion should be beneath everyone. I agree that certain allegations are out of bounds -- e.g. I thought and continue to think that GoDD's insinuations about TP and his cronies somehow being involved in the Penn State molestation matter are really out of line. And you are right that Whaley's and Brandon's ethics are being impugned here. However, protecting one's job is part and parcel of pro sports at every level -- players, coaching and management (not to mention media). We hear all the time about coaches trying to squeeze out wins by playing veterans instead of the kids that the GM wants to see. And it's been pretty close to a consensus that the Bills substantially overpaid for Watkins. When you combine that with the fact that no one is ever going to give Whaley or Brandon a GM/President job in the NFL again if they go 6-10 again, it's pretty GD hard not to connect the dots. the lions and Millen got racked over the coals in the football media and by the football talking heads for using back to back high 1st rounders on WR without a qb to work with. I see what the Bills did as awfully similar. The only way you can say the trade is not bad is if you think EJ is the answer. if you question EJ being the Man for the next decade on this team I think you have to question the trade for Watkins. Good call. I think by questioning their ethics ("I need to do everything in my power to win now to protect my job, regardless of it's impact on the future of the franchise" ~ I believe this to be unethical behavior by an ownerless management team) to be the alternative to these guys being a less competent management team than Jerry Burns and Mike Lynn. I don't think they are incompetent. All of the substantiation needed was in the news headlines on the Morning of May 9th. 2 high first round picks for a single wide receiver. That is selling the most valuable asset the team had left after the first round of the 2014 draft in a wild and misguided attempt to move from 7 to 9 wins this year in order to save your job. That is unethical. I agree with all of this with the HUGE exception of the bolded part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Seems that some of the national reporters feel Orton will be starting by week five Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) The wheels on the bus go round and round all through the town. Manuel-Orton-Tuel.. Now that should strike fear into someone, some where, some time I guess we should be grateful that Watkins didn't come out of the preseason with turf toe or a hammy. That was what I was expecting. Edited August 30, 2014 by wjag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I think by questioning their ethics ("I need to do everything in my power to win now to protect my job, regardless of it's impact on the future of the franchise" ~ I believe this to be unethical behavior by an ownerless management team) to be the alternative to these guys being a less competent management team than Jerry Burns and Mike Lynn. I don't think they are incompetent. All of the substantiation needed was in the news headlines on the Morning of May 9th. 2 high first round picks for a single wide receiver. That is selling the most valuable asset the team had left after the first round of the 2014 draft in a wild and misguided attempt to move from 7 to 9 wins this year in order to save your job. That is unethical. So you believe what the Falcons gave up to get Julio Jones to be beyond unethical , I assume. Unethical or incompetent are not the only choices. Just simple not agreeing with your value chart is the simplest answer. And my final word on subject is that I also don't buy into the argument that the gamble pays off only if EJ is the answer. Edited August 30, 2014 by tom webster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 the lions and Millen got racked over the coals in the football media and by the football talking heads for using back to back high 1st rounders on WR without a qb to work with. I see what the Bills did as awfully similar. The only way you can say the trade is not bad is if you think EJ is the answer. if you question EJ being the Man for the next decade on this team I think you have to question the trade for Watkins. The Lions were criticized for three receivers in a row...but they were not raked over the coals for Megatron. At that point Williams and Charles Johnson were sunk costs. Megatron was the right pick, and most commentators (and now history) agree. Watkins is unlikely to reach that level...but if he can be Julio Jones? saying the only way the trade isn't a disaster is if EJ is the answer is an overly simplistic way of thinking about it. It Watkins turns into a game breaker and the pick is too low to get an elite QB prospect, that's not even remotely a disaster. You're also assuming a 1st round pick is the only way to get a QB, which we know isn't true. It may be your best shot, and it's certainly the best way to get an elite QB, but you can get serviceable guys elsewhere. To those saying a WR isn't worth a premium...do any of you think Andy Dalton QBs the Bengals to consecutive playoff appearances without AJ Green? If Watkins hits, he can absolutely be a big reason why a mediocre QB gets a team to the playoffs. Speaking of mediocrity, the Bills have missed the playoffs for 15 years, as we are all aware. The vast majority of those years they have had a 1st round pick (and sometimes multiple). You know the saying about insanity? If you want to say what what Whaley did was unethical, then I counter that what many fans wanted them to do is insane. For me personally, they've been so bad and so boring for so long I honestly can't get upset about an exciting move, even if it ultimately adds another year to the playoff drought. 15,16, or 18, what does it even matter? And Freeman, I must say I'm shocked you are against trading a future to try to win more now. What happened to winning begets winning? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 The Lions were criticized for three receivers in a row...but they were not raked over the coals for Megatron. At that point Williams and Charles Johnson were sunk costs. Megatron was the right pick, and most commentators (and now history) agree. Watkins is unlikely to reach that level...but if he can be Julio Jones? saying the only way the trade isn't a disaster is if EJ is the answer is an overly simplistic way of thinking about it. It Watkins turns into a game breaker and the pick is too low to get an elite QB prospect, that's not even remotely a disaster. You're also assuming a 1st round pick is the only way to get a QB, which we know isn't true. It may be your best shot, and it's certainly the best way to get an elite QB, but you can get serviceable guys elsewhere. To those saying a WR isn't worth a premium...do any of you think Andy Dalton QBs the Bengals to consecutive playoff appearances without AJ Green? If Watkins hits, he can absolutely be a big reason why a mediocre QB gets a team to the playoffs. Speaking of mediocrity, the Bills have missed the playoffs for 15 years, as we are all aware. The vast majority of those years they have had a 1st round pick (and sometimes multiple). You know the saying about insanity? If you want to say what what Whaley did was unethical, then I counter that what many fans wanted them to do is insane. For me personally, they've been so bad and so boring for so long I honestly can't get upset about an exciting move, even if it ultimately adds another year to the playoff drought. 15,16, or 18, what does it even matter? And Freeman, I must say I'm shocked you are against trading a future to try to win more now. What happened to winning begets winning? :P Good post. Have we so exhausted complaining about actual football that we are now complaining about ethics in sports?! God God, I really hate Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I don't have the passion anymore to dissect any moves the Bills make. If the Bills manage to start winning again, I expect it to be completely by accident and not as a result of a series of well thought out GM/coaching moves. Edited August 30, 2014 by Claude_Verret Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 So you believe what the Falcons gave up to get Julio Jones to be beyond unethical , I assume. Unethical or incompetent are not the only choices. Just simple not agreeing with your value chart is the simplest answer. And my final word on subject is that I also don't buy into the argument that the gamble pays off only if EJ is the answer. It is the internet. Only black and white are allowed. There is no room for shades of grey. Good post. Have we so exhausted complaining about actual football that we are now complaining about ethics in sports?! God God, I really hate Summer. Tanking, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Tanking, anyone? Exactly! I would much rather sell the future in order to win in now, than sell the present in order to win it the future. It's going to take many many corrective surgeries to remove the scar that Darcy left on this town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 The Lions were criticized for three receivers in a row...but they were not raked over the coals for Megatron. At that point Williams and Charles Johnson were sunk costs. Megatron was the right pick, and most commentators (and now history) agree. Watkins is unlikely to reach that level...but if he can be Julio Jones? saying the only way the trade isn't a disaster is if EJ is the answer is an overly simplistic way of thinking about it. It Watkins turns into a game breaker and the pick is too low to get an elite QB prospect, that's not even remotely a disaster. You're also assuming a 1st round pick is the only way to get a QB, which we know isn't true. It may be your best shot, and it's certainly the best way to get an elite QB, but you can get serviceable guys elsewhere. To those saying a WR isn't worth a premium...do any of you think Andy Dalton QBs the Bengals to consecutive playoff appearances without AJ Green? If Watkins hits, he can absolutely be a big reason why a mediocre QB gets a team to the playoffs. Speaking of mediocrity, the Bills have missed the playoffs for 15 years, as we are all aware. The vast majority of those years they have had a 1st round pick (and sometimes multiple). You know the saying about insanity? If you want to say what what Whaley did was unethical, then I counter that what many fans wanted them to do is insane. For me personally, they've been so bad and so boring for so long I honestly can't get upset about an exciting move, even if it ultimately adds another year to the playoff drought. 15,16, or 18, what does it even matter? And Freeman, I must say I'm shocked you are against trading a future to try to win more now. What happened to winning begets winning? :P :worthy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 The WR argument is silly. If Watkins is better than the two players we would've selected, then it's a good pick. If not, then it's a bad pick. Because he is a WR doesn't make him an exception to that very simple and true rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 So you believe what the Falcons gave up to get Julio Jones to be beyond unethical , I assume. Unethical or incompetent are not the only choices. Just simple not agreeing with your value chart is the simplest answer. And my final word on subject is that I also don't buy into the argument that the gamble pays off only if EJ is the answer. How about Denver. They are very clearly sacrificing their future to win now. The second Manning retires they are in cap jail and will suffer for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I think by questioning their ethics ("I need to do everything in my power to win now to protect my job, regardless of it's impact on the future of the franchise" ~ I believe this to be unethical behavior by an ownerless management team) to be the alternative to these guys being a less competent management team than Jerry Burns and Mike Lynn. I don't think they are incompetent. All of the substantiation needed was in the news headlines on the Morning of May 9th. 2 high first round picks for a single wide receiver. That is selling the most valuable asset the team had left after the first round of the 2014 draft in a wild and misguided attempt to move from 7 to 9 wins this year in order to save your job. That is unethical. Overreaching. These guys are always working to preserve their jobs. They're always on one year deals. If there was an extra bit of urgency there given the uncertain status of ownership, that's just human nature. This is an indictment strung together with gossamer and speculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 The Lions were criticized for three receivers in a row...but they were not raked over the coals for Megatron. At that point Williams and Charles Johnson were sunk costs. Megatron was the right pick, and most commentators (and now history) agree. Watkins is unlikely to reach that level...but if he can be Julio Jones? saying the only way the trade isn't a disaster is if EJ is the answer is an overly simplistic way of thinking about it. It Watkins turns into a game breaker and the pick is too low to get an elite QB prospect, that's not even remotely a disaster. You're also assuming a 1st round pick is the only way to get a QB, which we know isn't true. It may be your best shot, and it's certainly the best way to get an elite QB, but you can get serviceable guys elsewhere. To those saying a WR isn't worth a premium...do any of you think Andy Dalton QBs the Bengals to consecutive playoff appearances without AJ Green? If Watkins hits, he can absolutely be a big reason why a mediocre QB gets a team to the playoffs. Speaking of mediocrity, the Bills have missed the playoffs for 15 years, as we are all aware. The vast majority of those years they have had a 1st round pick (and sometimes multiple). You know the saying about insanity? If you want to say what what Whaley did was unethical, then I counter that what many fans wanted them to do is insane. For me personally, they've been so bad and so boring for so long I honestly can't get upset about an exciting move, even if it ultimately adds another year to the playoff drought. 15,16, or 18, what does it even matter? And Freeman, I must say I'm shocked you are against trading a future to try to win more now. What happened to winning begets winning? :P To be clear, my issue isn't so much with the trade itself -- it's with the fact that there is an inherent conflict of interest in Whaley/Brandon making the trade while the team is between owners. I don't have the passion anymore to dissect any moves the Bills make. If the Bills manage to start winning again, I expect it to be completely by accident and not as a result of a series of well thought out GM/coaching moves. Definitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) To be clear, my issue isn't so much with the trade itself -- it's with the fact that there is an inherent conflict of interest in Whaley/Brandon making the trade while the team is between owners. Completely agree here - I know we get into it with meddling owners on this forum, but this is the interesting case where there isn't an owner to preside over the process. A very risky move was signed off by two guys who very well can be first in the firing line when a new owner comes into town. This is the process (probably) when it doesn't have the full checks and balances in place. The thing that's killing me is would the trade still have gone through if we offered our #2 pick this year rather than next year's first. Edited August 30, 2014 by Darryl Shannon's +/- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 To be clear, my issue isn't so much with the trade itself -- it's with the fact that there is an inherent conflict of interest in Whaley/Brandon making the trade while the team is between owners. Definitely. Well, Ralph had already handed team operations fully over to Brandon, and he was trusted enough to be a member of the trust responsible for the sale. I really don't see the conflict of interest there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 It is the internet. Only black and white are allowed. There is no room for shades of grey. Tanking, anyone? Now why do you have to go and bring in Shrader's new sex life into the equation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 If the Bills didn't do anything to improve one of the weakest WR cores in the NFL at the draft, the city would have been up in arms. I think you guys are reading WAYYYYYYYYY too much into this. It has nothing to do with the owners (or lack thereof) it has to do with management taking a risk to try and improve the team. Risks........ something this team has been sorely lacking for 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Now why do you have to go and bring in Shrader's new sex life into the equation? Well that was random Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 Would not shock me to see the price rise to 2B So Bon Jovi is out. He did not have enough cash to be a majority owner and get into a bidding war. The Rogers group is going to be adding more coin to their bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) Well that was random Did I screw up? Was it Free's wife who got the book from her friends? Some reason I always confuse you two. Edited August 30, 2014 by tom webster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I don't get the Moorman cut... someone please 'splain it to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 30, 2014 Report Share Posted August 30, 2014 I don't get the Moorman cut... someone please 'splain it to me he is really really really bad at punting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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