dEnnis the Menace Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 I like that the conversation finally shifted once a respected poster pointed out his issues on Manuel. GoDD was right on. 1) yes GoDD is respected 2) he does it with a little more...tact shall we say?
nfreeman Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Last year's draft was one of the deepest wide receiver drafts in history. So.... we trade our first round pick next year to move up a few slots to pick a receiver? If EJ shows that he isn't the answer this season then we'd almost certainly end up with a top-10 pick in next year's draft which should have several franchise-type QB's available (Mariota, Winston, Hundley)... But, we traded the ###### pick for a receiver who doesn't have a quality QB to get him the ball. And plenty of other very good WR options were available this past draft (e.g., Jordan Matthews, Kelvin Benjamin, etc.). Not smart. Total lack of foresight IMHO. Welcome to year #15 of missing the playoffs and counting... I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment. The year to move up would have been next year, if we needed one of those QBs. And, yeah, Kelvin Benjamin is looking the part of a stud WR in Carolina. I think most on this board will agree that the Sabres made the correct moves by loading up on first and second round picks when it was clear the team needed a change of direction. It hurts in the short run, but should pay off in the long run. That's what infuriates me about the Bills trading away high picks when they're still far away from being a contender. They should be stockpiling young players, not gambling the franchise's future on one or two (EJ and Watkins). All of these support the proposition that Brandon/Whaley should have been prohibited by the NFL from making the Watkins trade. There was, and is, an inherent conflict of interest between their desperation to take risks in order to keep their jobs and what is best for the franchise. It's a situation similar to when the NBA nullified the first Chris Paul trade -- in the absence of an owner, the league needs to step in and safeguard a franchise's value. The NFL didn't do that here, and the Bills are royally screwed as a result.
shrader Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 1) yes GoDD is respected 2) he does it with a little more...tact shall we say? That is just about the last poster I would use as an example of someone who uses a little tact. Ok, he may be the 2nd to last poster I would use for that example. That said, you're dead on with what you're suggesting in point #2.
LGR4GM Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Ej Manuel, we should give him more time, it's just preseason, stop worrying, he was a 1st round pick... read this, because it is what a good 2nd round QB pick is playing like. http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/137818/observation-deck-oakland-raiders-4 Carr completed 11 of 13 passes for 143 yards and three touchdowns. He led the Raiders on two one-play touchdown drives. Several Seattle defensive starters were on the field for the first drive, which ended with a Raiders touchdown. Carr even completed a pass on Seattle cornerback Richard Sherman, one of the game’s very best. The Seahawks seemed to be going through the motions, but Carr was dominant.
Iron Crotch Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Deadspin's "Why Your Team Sucks" Buffalo Bills edition... http://deadspin.com/...ills-1628452314 :D 88 wins over the last 14 seasons. A whopping 39% winning percentage since last making the playoffs in 1999. Oof. Edited August 29, 2014 by Potato
That Aud Smell Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 All of these support the proposition that Brandon/Whaley should have been prohibited by the NFL from making the Watkins trade. There was, and is, an inherent conflict of interest between their desperation to take risks in order to keep their jobs and what is best for the franchise. It's a situation similar to when the NBA nullified the first Chris Paul trade -- in the absence of an owner, the league needs to step in and safeguard a franchise's value. The NFL didn't do that here, and the Bills are royally screwed as a result. Interesting thoughts, but, without understanding the issues better, that strikes me as taking matters too far. Brandon had ultimate and final authority on football matters when Ralph was alive as well. And I don't buy that Brandon would have the same motivation as Whaley does to win now.
LGR4GM Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Deadspin's "Why Your Team Sucks" Buffalo Bills edition... http://deadspin.com/...ills-1628452314 :D 88 wins over the last 14 seasons. A whopping 39% winning percentage since last making the playoffs in 1999. Oof. That stat right there is why if I bought the team I would start with the ppl in charge and hand out pink slips like breathalyzer tests after a bills home game.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 (edited) Ej Manuel, we should give him more time, it's just preseason, stop worrying, he was a 1st round pick... read this, because it is what a good 2nd round QB pick is playing like. http://espn.go.com/b...kland-raiders-4 I figured you would bring this up. And as someone who liked Carr, I can't argue. I really wish we would've taken him, even if it was to sit behind EJ for a year. PS - I wasn't high on Kuandijo, and he hasn't performed like a 2nd rounder should to this point, so Carr in the 2nd round wouldn't have been a bad thing. This from someone who wants to be patient with EJ Edited August 29, 2014 by dEnnis the Menace
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Bills appear to be cutting ties with Palmer per a few reports. nothing official yet,
That Aud Smell Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Bills appear to be cutting ties with Palmer per a few reports. nothing official yet, he should grab a beer with matt leinart.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Just got an update on my phone that the Bills have cut 10 including Moorman and that they placed 3 players on IR
SabresBillsFan Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Fair enough. Which is why I made the point about next year being the year they should've been prepared to mortgage future picks for the right move up. I don't think it's worth it to move up to take a WR. Reserve that move for the QB. Derek Anderson is no stud. Problem with Buffalo is they draft players and if they become something special then they don't want to pay them. Farm team for the rest of the league. Then the scouts they have must be mediocre because they reach for so many players that don't make it. Whoever buys the bills needs to clean management out and start fresh. Hire garbage get garbage results and that's what the bills have in the last 20 years!
tom webster Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 All of these support the proposition that Brandon/Whaley should have been prohibited by the NFL from making the Watkins trade. There was, and is, an inherent conflict of interest between their desperation to take risks in order to keep their jobs and what is best for the franchise. It's a situation similar to when the NBA nullified the first Chris Paul trade -- in the absence of an owner, the league needs to step in and safeguard a franchise's value. The NFL didn't do that here, and the Bills are royally screwed as a result. I think this whole narrative is a bunch of crap. The safe thing for Whaley and Marrone to do was to do nothing and then pull a Reiger and blame their failures on everyone else in the organization. Trading the number one pick next year was the riskiest thing they could have done and in my mind anyway, was not an act of desparation, but rather an act of conviction. Conviction in the caliber of athlete Watkins is and conviction in what they have in Manuel. They may turn out to be wrong but to accuse them of acting in a way contrary to the best interest of the franchise is at the least, irresponsible.
SwampD Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 I think this whole narrative is a bunch of crap. The safe thing for Whaley and Marrone to do was to do nothing and then pull a Reiger and blame their failures on everyone else in the organization. Trading the number one pick next year was the riskiest thing they could have done and in my mind anyway, was not an act of desparation, but rather an act of conviction. Conviction in the caliber of athlete Watkins is and conviction in what they have in Manuel. They may turn out to be wrong but to accuse them of acting in a way contrary to the best interest of the franchise is at the least, irresponsible. Preach it!
dudacek Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 I think this whole narrative is a bunch of crap. The safe thing for Whaley and Marrone to do was to do nothing and then pull a Reiger and blame their failures on everyone else in the organization. Trading the number one pick next year was the riskiest thing they could have done and in my mind anyway, was not an act of desparation, but rather an act of conviction. Conviction in the caliber of athlete Watkins is and conviction in what they have in Manuel. They may turn out to be wrong but to accuse them of acting in a way contrary to the best interest of the franchise is at the least, irresponsible. Truth. And they will live and die with. (Probably die) I have purchased Sunday Ticket for about as long as it has been an option. I have yet to this year. Should I?
TrueBlueGED Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Truth. And they will live and die with. (Probably die) I have purchased Sunday Ticket for about as long as it has been an option. I have yet to this year. Should I? Are you more of an NFL fan or a Bills fan? If you really enjoy the league, I see no reason to cancel just because the Bills may be bad.
nfreeman Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 Interesting thoughts, but, without understanding the issues better, that strikes me as taking matters too far. Brandon had ultimate and final authority on football matters when Ralph was alive as well. And I don't buy that Brandon would have the same motivation as Whaley does to win now. Well, Brandon had full control only for the last 1 or 2 seasons. And I think if a new owner comes in with a fire-everyone mindset, Brandon is just as gone as Whaley is.. That stat right there is why if I bought the team I would start with the ppl in charge and hand out pink slips like breathalyzer tests after a bills home game. Eggzzzactly. I think this whole narrative is a bunch of crap. The safe thing for Whaley and Marrone to do was to do nothing and then pull a Reiger and blame their failures on everyone else in the organization. Trading the number one pick next year was the riskiest thing they could have done and in my mind anyway, was not an act of desparation, but rather an act of conviction. Conviction in the caliber of athlete Watkins is and conviction in what they have in Manuel. They may turn out to be wrong but to accuse them of acting in a way contrary to the best interest of the franchise is at the least, irresponsible. I don't agree at all. Pulling a Regier is only a safe move if you think the new owner will buy it. Most new owners don't. And I appreciate that TP is likely the new owner and already kept one underperforming GM, but I don't think that will happen this time. Pulling a Regier also would almost certainly have resulted in yet another boring, non-playoff season -- thus throwing another log on the "get rid of everyone" bonfire for the new owner. For Brandon and Marrone, trading next year's #1 either works in that Watkins is awesome and the team is substantially improved -- in which case they keep their jobs, so they are OK -- or it doesn't, in which case they are gone and they don't have to pay the bill. Even if you don't agree that they put their own interests ahead of the team's, the conflict of interest itself is unavoidable. Not having an owner in place when a major trade like this is made is a highly unusual situation.
tom webster Posted August 29, 2014 Report Posted August 29, 2014 So you are basically accusing them of trying to improve their team and if it doesn't work it will mean they unethically made a move contrary to the best interest of the franchise.
LastPommerFan Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 So you are basically accusing them of trying to improve their team and if it doesn't work it will mean they unethically made a move contrary to the best interest of the franchise. There are no circumstances where paying 2 first round picks for a WR is in the best interest of the franchise, I don't care if it's Jerry Jesus Moss III. If the above statement is true, and it is, then the move could not have been made ethically looking at the long term good of the franchise.
tom webster Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 There are no circumstances where paying 2 first round picks for a WR is in the best interest of the franchise, I don't care if it's Jerry Jesus Moss III. If the above statement is true, and it is, then the move could not have been made ethically looking at the long term good of the franchise. That's just plain ridiculous. Even in a sports world where analytics have taken root, there are no absolutes and for you to blatantly question their ethics based on your belief of a value system is beneath you.
LastPommerFan Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 That's just plain ridiculous. Even in a sports world where analytics have taken root, there are no absolutes and for you to blatantly question their ethics based on your belief of a value system is beneath you. Personal attacks aside, the marginal value of the wide receiver position in the National Football League is pretty well established. To blatantly question the ethics of a major professional sports manager and coach is not outside of the realm of reasonable discourse. To say that a management/coach group took a big swing, at the cost of the future of the franchise, is neither ridiculous, nor beneath me.
dudacek Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 Are you more of an NFL fan or a Bills fan? If you really enjoy the league, I see no reason to cancel just because the Bills may be bad. Bills. Reading TBD makes me sick these days and I'd really like to see the team shut them up. But I just can't take another season of sucking.
tom webster Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 Personal attacks aside, the marginal value of the wide receiver position in the National Football League is pretty well established. To blatantly question the ethics of a major professional sports manager and coach is not outside of the realm of reasonable discourse. To say that a management/coach group took a big swing, at the cost of the future of the franchise, is neither ridiculous, nor beneath me. Sorry if I went a little far but I take unsubstantiated accusations pretty seriously. Your last statement wasn't what I considered ridiculous or beneath you. In fact, I'm not even sure you are wrong but questioning the ethics of two people based on nothing but your opinion should be beneath everyone.
drnkirishone Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 the lions and Millen got racked over the coals in the football media and by the football talking heads for using back to back high 1st rounders on WR without a qb to work with. I see what the Bills did as awfully similar. The only way you can say the trade is not bad is if you think EJ is the answer. if you question EJ being the Man for the next decade on this team I think you have to question the trade for Watkins.
LastPommerFan Posted August 30, 2014 Report Posted August 30, 2014 Sorry if I went a little far but I take unsubstantiated accusations pretty seriously. Your last statement wasn't what I considered ridiculous or beneath you. In fact, I'm not even sure you are wrong but questioning the ethics of two people based on nothing but your opinion should be beneath everyone. I think by questioning their ethics ("I need to do everything in my power to win now to protect my job, regardless of it's impact on the future of the franchise" ~ I believe this to be unethical behavior by an ownerless management team) to be the alternative to these guys being a less competent management team than Jerry Burns and Mike Lynn. I don't think they are incompetent. All of the substantiation needed was in the news headlines on the Morning of May 9th. 2 high first round picks for a single wide receiver. That is selling the most valuable asset the team had left after the first round of the 2014 draft in a wild and misguided attempt to move from 7 to 9 wins this year in order to save your job. That is unethical.
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