wjag Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 I wanted Buffalo to draft Jimmy G. Not surprised New England took him.
TrueBlueGED Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 Given New England's strong recent history of being able to recover from injuries, even to their top stars, I believe they are a poor example to your point. So you think the Pats are still a championship contender with Garroppolo at the helm? That offense is much less talented than when Matt Cassel managed 11 wins, and even then, they got smoked in the playoffs. So yes, if Brady goes down, their season is most definitely over. The bills could have drafted at least three good back up quarterbacks in the last draft and they passed on all of them. Accept it. There you go again, assuming a bunch of mid to late round rookies are going to be good NFL players.
LGR4GM Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 (edited) So you think the Pats are still a championship contender with Garroppolo at the helm? That offense is much less talented than when Matt Cassel managed 11 wins, and even then, they got smoked in the playoffs. So yes, if Brady goes down, their season is most definitely over. There you go again, assuming a bunch of mid to late round rookies are going to be good NFL players. When you watch what 2 of those guys did, they have IMPO a shot of having decent NFL careers. Also I have been kind lately and not commented on EJ but the fact still remains, if you could draft AJ McCarron and Aaron Murray in the 5th round... you do it even if it just pushed EJ more, something he needs. Edited August 27, 2014 by LGR4GM
LastPommerFan Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 So you think the Pats are still a championship contender with Garroppolo at the helm? That offense is much less talented than when Matt Cassel managed 11 wins, and even then, they got smoked in the playoffs. So yes, if Brady goes down, their season is most definitely over. Hold up there. The point was "season being over" not "no longer a championship contender. Put it this way. Do you think a Garroppolo led Pats team is still a favorite against a healthy bills?
nfreeman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 So you think the Pats are still a championship contender with Garroppolo at the helm? That offense is much less talented than when Matt Cassel managed 11 wins, and even then, they got smoked in the playoffs. So yes, if Brady goes down, their season is most definitely over. Are you sure about that?
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 So you think the Pats are still a championship contender with Garroppolo at the helm? That offense is much less talented than when Matt Cassel managed 11 wins, and even then, they got smoked in the playoffs. So yes, if Brady goes down, their season is most definitely over. They went 11-5 and still missed the playoffs When you watch what 2 of those guys did, they have IMPO a shot of having decent NFL careers. Also I have been kind lately and not commented on EJ but the fact still remains, if you could draft AJ McCarron and Aaron Murray in the 5th round... you do it even if it just pushed EJ more, something he needs. I agree with the notion that we should be continuously drafting QBs. I just don't think we should be counting on 4th round talent consistently pushing our starting QB. That could come back and bite us too. Hold up there. The point was "season being over" not "no longer a championship contender. Put it this way. Do you think a Garroppolo led Pats team is still a favorite against a healthy bills? I honestly do NOT think that a Garroppolo (is that spelled right?) Pats team would be a favorite against the Bills. I think the Pats would be in serious trouble, especially with them now jettisoning their best guard.
LastPommerFan Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 I honestly do NOT think that a Garroppolo (is that spelled right?) Pats team would be a favorite against the Bills. I think the Pats would be in serious trouble, especially with them now jettisoning their best guard. Great, now I have to hope for an injury to Brady so we can find out!
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 Great, now I have to hope for an injury to Brady so we can find out! 'cause that's a bad thing?
LastPommerFan Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 'cause that's a bad thing? no, definitely not a bad thing, I worry because we might not find out.
nfreeman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 I honestly do NOT think that a Garroppolo (is that spelled right?) Pats team would be a favorite against the Bills. I think the Pats would be in serious trouble, especially with them now jettisoning their best guard. The Bills will continue to be a Mickey Mouse organization and will continue to lose to the Pats most of the time, regardless of which bodies are occupying the uniforms, until (hopefully!) the new owner comes in and sweeps the organization clean.
LastPommerFan Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 The Bills will continue to be a Mickey Mouse organization and will continue to lose to the Pats most of the time, regardless of which bodies are occupying the uniforms, until (hopefully!) the new owner comes in and sweeps the organization clean. I never got this metaphor. Disney is one of the tightest run organizations on the planet, especially the mouse side. Not to mention how tightly said mouse runs his clubhouse. :)
drnkirishone Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 I never got this metaphor. Disney is one of the tightest run organizations on the planet, especially the mouse side. Not to mention how tightly said mouse runs his clubhouse. :) the girls from that clubhouse do grow up to be the most fun....
Eleven Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 The Bills will continue to be a Mickey Mouse organization and will continue to lose to the Pats most of the time, regardless of which bodies are occupying the uniforms, until (hopefully!) the new owner comes in and sweeps the organization clean. They used to beat the Pats regularly even with the old owner. The difference is New England got very, very lucky with a 6th round draft pick, and that's it. Otherwise, it would be the same mediocre franchise that it always was.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 They used to beat the Pats regularly even with the old owner. The difference is New England got very, very lucky with a 6th round draft pick, and that's it. Otherwise, it would be the same mediocre franchise that it always was. This The Bills will continue to be a Mickey Mouse organization and will continue to lose to the Pats most of the time, regardless of which bodies are occupying the uniforms, until (hopefully!) the new owner comes in and sweeps the organization clean. I too never understood the metaphor here. When you claim that the new owner needs to sweep the organization clean, you mean from top down, just coaches, players and coaches, please expand (I'm not trying to be argumentative, i'm just trying to understand what you're seeing and what you want done).
nfreeman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 They used to beat the Pats regularly even with the old owner. The difference is New England got very, very lucky with a 6th round draft pick, and that's it. Otherwise, it would be the same mediocre franchise that it always was. The Pats are something like 34-8 vs the Bills since Kraft bought the team. The Pats also have the best GM/Coach in the NFL. They've built a strong organization, top to bottom. That's why they didn't descend into Bills-like ineptitude when they lost Brady for the season. When you claim that the new owner needs to sweep the organization clean, you mean from top down, just coaches, players and coaches, please expand (I'm not trying to be argumentative, i'm just trying to understand what you're seeing and what you want done). I mean that the owner should (and probably will) fire Brandon and Whaley, hire a new team president/GM, and let that guy fire, or keep, Marrone and as many of the other front office/coaching guys as he wants. Ralph always went cheap on his GMs and coaches. You get what you pay for. Now the stench of loser-dom is deeply ingrained in the organization and it's going to take a major cleanup job to right the ship.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 The Pats are something like 34-8 vs the Bills since Kraft bought the team. The Pats also have the best GM/Coach in the NFL. They've built a strong organization, top to bottom. That's why they didn't descend into Bills-like ineptitude when they lost Brady for the season. I mean that the owner should (and probably will) fire Brandon and Whaley, hire a new team president/GM, and let that guy fire, or keep, Marrone and as many of the other front office/coaching guys as he wants. Ralph always went cheap on his GMs and coaches. You get what you pay for. Now the stench of loser-dom is deeply ingrained in the organization and it's going to take a major cleanup job to right the ship. so you don't like Whaley? I'm kind of torn on him. He seems aggressive, which I like because it's different than recent history, but he also seems to go all-in or attempts to double down too quickly. I think Marrone is a decent coach, but his O-coordinator I believe is in over his head. I have no opinion on Brandon, as his hand in everything is kind of transparent.
Eleven Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 The Pats are something like 34-8 vs the Bills since Kraft bought the team. The Pats also have the best GM/Coach in the NFL. They've built a strong organization, top to bottom. That's why they didn't descend into Bills-like ineptitude when they lost Brady for the season. Yes, all of it with Brady. They had a good team the 11-5 year, no doubt. Was Belichick considered such a star when the Pats hired him? I'm pretty sure he was considered the exact kind of retread that the Bills are consistently criticized for hiring. Cheating and Brady made him good.
nfreeman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 so you don't like Whaley? I'm kind of torn on him. He seems aggressive, which I like because it's different than recent history, but he also seems to go all-in or attempts to double down too quickly. I think Marrone is a decent coach, but his O-coordinator I believe is in over his head. I have no opinion on Brandon, as his hand in everything is kind of transparent. Whaley has been with the team since 2010. They haven't gotten any better since then and have made a ton of bad moves. He wasn't the boss, but I don't think his hands are clean either. It's also fairly likely that the Watkins trade -- for which he was the boss -- will end up costing them a top-5 pick next year. Brandon has been with the team since 1997. The team has been terrible pretty much the entire time he's been there. They picked Marrone. I don't trust them to pick a clean shirt, let alone a coach. I just think they all need to go.
TrueBlueGED Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 Hold up there. The point was "season being over" not "no longer a championship contender. Put it this way. Do you think a Garroppolo led Pats team is still a favorite against a healthy bills? The Pats, both organization and fan, expect to be contenders. So yes, I think going from contender to maybe better than the Bills is the same thing as their season being over. To you specific question, I think the Pats would be home favorites but road dogs. Are you sure about that? I was...but I should not have been :lol: :bag: The Pats are something like 34-8 vs the Bills since Kraft bought the team. The Pats also have the best GM/Coach in the NFL. They've built a strong organization, top to bottom. That's why they didn't descend into Bills-like ineptitude when they lost Brady for the season. I mean that the owner should (and probably will) fire Brandon and Whaley, hire a new team president/GM, and let that guy fire, or keep, Marrone and as many of the other front office/coaching guys as he wants. Ralph always went cheap on his GMs and coaches. You get what you pay for. Now the stench of loser-dom is deeply ingrained in the organization and it's going to take a major cleanup job to right the ship. Why are you so certain the new owner will clean house? All indications put Pegula as the favorite. Maybe Pegula will take a different approach the second time around, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him give Whaley et al a year or two with expanded resources.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 Whaley has been with the team since 2010. They haven't gotten any better since then and have made a ton of bad moves. He wasn't the boss, but I don't think his hands are clean either. It's also fairly likely that the Watkins trade -- for which he was the boss -- will end up costing them a top-5 pick next year. Brandon has been with the team since 1997. The team has been terrible pretty much the entire time he's been there. They picked Marrone. I don't trust them to pick a clean shirt, let alone a coach. I just think they all need to go. Am I the only person that doesn't think our pick next year would be top 5?
SwampD Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 Am I the only person that doesn't think our pick next year would be top 5? Nope. You are not alone.
TrueBlueGED Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 Am I the only person that doesn't think our pick next year would be top 5? Nope. My money is on the usual 8-12, for a variety of reasons (none of which include "it's what they do").
nfreeman Posted August 27, 2014 Report Posted August 27, 2014 The Pats, both organization and fan, expect to be contenders. So yes, I think going from contender to maybe better than the Bills is the same thing as their season being over. To you specific question, I think the Pats would be home favorites but road dogs. I was...but I should not have been :lol: :bag: Why are you so certain the new owner will clean house? All indications put Pegula as the favorite. Maybe Pegula will take a different approach the second time around, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him give Whaley et al a year or two with expanded resources. Well, I did say "should" and "probably" -- which do not equate to "certain." I guess I'm hoping that TP won't repeat his approach to the Sabres -- which, btw, was much more justifiable in light of DR's and LR's prior records than it would be in the case of Brandon and Whaley, who have had zero success. But you are right that it's possible he could take the same tack this time.
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