LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Then just become a Broncos fan. They even deliver excruciating championship losses that we all know and love :P Can't do it, can't get behind teams I have no legit tie to. It's why I can't stand Cowboys fans, Yankees fans, all the new Red Sox fans, etc. It's also why I cant really follow NBA Basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Can't do it, can't get behind teams I have no legit tie to. It's why I can't stand Cowboys fans, Yankees fans, all the new Red Sox fans, etc. It's also why I cant really follow NBA Basketball. Does a huge man crush on Peyton count as a legit tie? Asking for a friend... Edited August 8, 2014 by TrueBluePhD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Does a huge man crush on Peyton count as a legit tie? Asking for a friend... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Patterson had 45 catches for less than 450 yards. Murray and McCarron have no more (and I'd argue less) of a chance of becoming good NFL starters than EJ. And everything Dennis said. I think your hate of EJ has robbed you of reason. Yea but at least I didn't cherry pick stats. I mean who cares if Patterson also had 1393yrds on punt and kickoff returns. Look EJ has done nothing. I hope he proves me wrong because I want the bills to win. I just don't think he will. He doesn't think the game or read defenses the way he needs to and I am not sure it is something he can learn. You know why I like Murray and McCarron? Because they consistently read and adjust to defensives and I think they will at the NFL level. Time will tell but I am not eating the BS that the Bills and the Media have been spitting out on how EJ is a 1st round QB blah blah blah. He is a at best a 2nd rounder and most likely a 3rd-4th. Again I want him to prove me wrong because I don't even remember playoff football and that is sad. You know what my real problem is, people continue to refer to EJ as "elite talent". He isn't. He wasn't. He isn't likely to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Yea but at least I didn't cherry pick stats. I mean who cares if Patterson also had 1393yrds on punt and kickoff returns. Look EJ has done nothing. I hope he proves me wrong because I want the bills to win. I just don't think he will. He doesn't think the game or read defenses the way he needs to and I am not sure it is something he can learn. You know why I like Murray and McCarron? Because they consistently read and adjust to defensives and I think they will at the NFL level. Time will tell but I am not eating the BS that the Bills and the Media have been spitting out on how EJ is a 1st round QB blah blah blah. He is a at best a 2nd rounder and most likely a 3rd-4th. Again I want him to prove me wrong because I don't even remember playoff football and that is sad. You know what my real problem is, people continue to refer to EJ as "elite talent". He isn't. He wasn't. He isn't likely to be. Because they played in the SEC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Because they played in the SEC. Not the reason but I am sick of this. PPL want to call EJ elite and say he will be fine or he needs more time fine. In my mind you can dress up a pig to look like Scarlett Johansen but when you take her clothes off shes still a pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Not the reason but I am sick of this. PPL want to call EJ elite and say he will be fine or he needs more time fine. In my mind you can dress up a pig to look like Scarlett Johansen but when you take her clothes off shes still a pig. I think EJ is better than those guys, and will develop into a fine 7-9/8-8 QB who might occasionally get you to 9-7 and a wildcard birth. I think those guys max out at 8-8 in their best years unless they have super-stud defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 You know what my real problem is, people continue to refer to EJ as "elite talent". He isn't. He wasn't. He isn't likely to be. What people? The pick was widely talked about as a reach for a player at a position of need in a draft where elite QB talent was missing. In my mind you can dress up a pig to look like Scarlett Johansen but when you take her clothes off shes still a pig. Wait - does this mean we are going to see EJ naked? Seriously. That is a borderline deranged riff on an old saw. I think EJ is better than those guys, and will develop into a fine 7-9/8-8 QB who might occasionally get you to 9-7 and a wildcard birth. I think those guys max out at 8-8 in their best years unless they have super-stud defenses. I think this is about right. My concern with EJ is not so much his decision making and reading of defenses -- those are things that can be taught and learned to a great extent, in my mind -- but his accuracy. He's just not accurate. I don't know if that can be taught. I don't think it can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I think this is about right. My concern with EJ is not so much his decision making and reading of defenses -- those are things that can be taught and learned to a great extent, in my mind -- but his accuracy. He's just not accurate. I don't know if that can be taught. I don't think it can. geez. I'd have put those completely reversed. easier to train body mechanics than brain stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Yea but at least I didn't cherry pick stats. I mean who cares if Patterson also had 1393yrds on punt and kickoff returns. Look EJ has done nothing. I hope he proves me wrong because I want the bills to win. I just don't think he will. He doesn't think the game or read defenses the way he needs to and I am not sure it is something he can learn. You know why I like Murray and McCarron? Because they consistently read and adjust to defensives and I think they will at the NFL level. Time will tell but I am not eating the BS that the Bills and the Media have been spitting out on how EJ is a 1st round QB blah blah blah. He is a at best a 2nd rounder and most likely a 3rd-4th. Again I want him to prove me wrong because I don't even remember playoff football and that is sad. You know what my real problem is, people continue to refer to EJ as "elite talent". He isn't. He wasn't. He isn't likely to be. If your best defense of a 1st round WR is he's good on special teams, you're drafting just as bad if not worse than the Bills. I'd actually argue the Bills recent draft history is very good. They just can't find the QB. Position by position this team is as good or better than the Pats (minus TE, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I guess how you view the drafts and moves is how you view EJ. I personally think he is going to be a stud and therefore like the moves. Those who don't like EJ, don't like the moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 geez. I'd have put those completely reversed. easier to train body mechanics than brain stuff. I don't think EJ's inaccuracy is due to mechanics, so in my view whether they can be taught isn't particularly relevant. He may be able to improve some, but he'll never be pinpoint like the league's elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I see timing and chemistry as the biggie this year. In the preseason game he should have had two touchdowns, one to Watkins who was off by a step down the sideline and one to Williams who didn't make a good play on the jump ball in the end zone, neither of which were E.J.'S fault. If those two plays had been executed correctly, we wouldn't be having this conversation IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 so if Winston doesn't come out of school this year, then who is the undisputed top QB that we will be missing out on? because frankly, I don't see the need to draft another 1st round QB until the year after next (the next 1st round draft pick that we have). Marcus Mariota, who is a better prospect than Winston anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Marcus Mariota, who is a better prospect than Winston anyways. my bad. honestly forgot about him. Honest question for LGR and some others here: what are your thoughts on the other Manning? he has 2 superbowl wins, but his accuracy is in question quite a bit (as it should be since he's led the league in interceptions twice now I believe?). He isn't the most savvy but his defense carries him and two great wideouts have carried him (guys that go up and just catch the ball). I could see EJ becoming more of that kind of player. A guy who does just enough to get us there so long as the other pieces are where they should be. I don't think EJ is elite, nor have I seen people refer to him as elite (I believe there was a post about Watkins being elite, but that was it). You're grasping there. EJ has had some good moments, and I'm sorry that your pessimistic view of him has forbidden you to see those moments. He orchestrated a GREAT comeback drive over Carolina, and he almost orchestrated one against Atlanta, however, Stevie "it wasn't my fault" Johnson and Scott Chandler fumbled BOTH chances away. EJ did everything right in those circumstances. EJ did great against NE in his first pro game, and looked great against the Jets at home (minus the underthrow to Graham that ended up decent anyways). There were many great moments, but there many boneheaded moves too like not getting out of bounds in Cleveland, as well as a lot of underthrows or overthrows on the sideline. A big part of his problem last year though, IMHO, is that he didn't have the proper coaching or attention quarterbacks, especially young ones, need. His QB coach was his OC. Now that he has a true QB coach, I think we should start seeing a turnaround. I think it'll take this entire preseason for him to adjust , but I'm not going to judge the kid on 10 preseason snaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 geez. I'd have put those completely reversed. easier to train body mechanics than brain stuff. that's fair. it's just my sense of the thing. i don't know that accuracy is strictly (or event mostly) a product of mechanics -- i think a lot of it is just ... talent. the thing about reading and processing is this: an intelligent and hard-working QB can, over time and through multiple live plays, become a much improved signal caller and defense reader. accuracy? it seems like you either have it or you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 my bad. honestly forgot about him. Honest question for LGR and some others here: what are your thoughts on the other Manning? he has 2 superbowl wins, but his accuracy is in question quite a bit (as it should be since he's led the league in interceptions twice now I believe?). He isn't the most savvy but his defense carries him and two great wideouts have carried him (guys that go up and just catch the ball). I could see EJ becoming more of that kind of player. A guy who does just enough to get us there so long as the other pieces are where they should be. I don't think EJ is elite, nor have I seen people refer to him as elite (I believe there was a post about Watkins being elite, but that was it). You're grasping there. EJ has had some good moments, and I'm sorry that your pessimistic view of him has forbidden you to see those moments. He orchestrated a GREAT comeback drive over Carolina, and he almost orchestrated one against Atlanta, however, Stevie "it wasn't my fault" Johnson and Scott Chandler fumbled BOTH chances away. EJ did everything right in those circumstances. EJ did great against NE in his first pro game, and looked great against the Jets at home (minus the underthrow to Graham that ended up decent anyways). There were many great moments, but there many boneheaded moves too like not getting out of bounds in Cleveland, as well as a lot of underthrows or overthrows on the sideline. A big part of his problem last year though, IMHO, is that he didn't have the proper coaching or attention quarterbacks, especially young ones, need. His QB coach was his OC. Now that he has a true QB coach, I think we should start seeing a turnaround. I think it'll take this entire preseason for him to adjust , but I'm not going to judge the kid on 10 preseason snaps. 1) I don't think it's a given that MM is a better prospect than JW, NFL-talent-wise, MM's legs won't help him as much there. 2) Eli is all over the place, and certainly an exception to the rule that you need a great QB to win the Super Bowl. But he is not an exception to the rule that you need a great QB to consistently make, and win regularly in, the playoffs. He misses as often makes the playoffs, and has only won playoff games in two separate years. 3) If EJ and be as good as Eli is when he's good, then we're in for a roller-coaster, but at least it's better than what we've had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 1) I don't think it's a given that MM is a better prospect than JW, NFL-talent-wise, MM's legs won't help him as much there. 2) Eli is all over the place, and certainly an exception to the rule that you need a great QB to win the Super Bowl. But he is not an exception to the rule that you need a great QB to consistently make, and win regularly in, the playoffs. He misses as often makes the playoffs, and has only won playoff games in two separate years. 3) If EJ and be as good as Eli is when he's good, then we're in for a roller-coaster, but at least it's better than what we've had. this is my point. If we can at least make the playoffs for 5 years out of ten, I'd take because it sure as hell beats the 0 out of 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 this is my point. If we can at least make the playoffs for 5 years out of ten, I'd take because it sure as hell beats the 0 out of 14. Obviously. I just don't assess his talent at that level. But my jobs are in Manufacturing and web development, not Football :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Wait, do people really think Russel Wilson is top talent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 Wait, do people really think Russel Wilson is top talent? Not me. He's good enough, though. (Obviously he is.) I think it was Joe Bascaglia [sic] who opined in a Twitter Q&A that EJ's ceiling is in that Russell Wilson range. Shoot - I'd take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted August 8, 2014 Report Share Posted August 8, 2014 I never get tired of watching the Patricheats lose, even if it is only the pre season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastPommerFan Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Wait, do people really think Russel Wilson is top talent? Make the case for why his passer rating is inflated. He is top 12 in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Make the case for why his passer rating is inflated. He is top 12 in the league. Passer rating is a crappy stat. There, I said it. Know who else is top-12 in passer rating? Sam Bradford, Nick Foles (granted he played great last year...but odds he repeats?) and Josh McCown. Not top-12? Cam Newton, Tom Brady, Andrew Luck, Jay Cutler, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning (and others, tired of listing). Passer rating gets inflated in two situations: the QB is truly elite and surrounded by a great supporting cast (I suppose this isn't inflated in the raw sense of the word, but still) or when a QB is in a situation where he can continually take safe, low-risk plays and focus on efficiency. Wilson is a nice player, but he's not elite--the context in which he plays allows for the latter type of inflation. If you're prepared to argue why his high passer rating is a result of him being elite rather than his team and system, feel free to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted August 9, 2014 Report Share Posted August 9, 2014 Marrone may not survive this game. I'm not talking about being fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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