LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 You think we're 2 games worse than last year? I'd be curious as to the reasoning on that. Regardless, no team bad enough to draft Winston is trading that pick. Please don't go all "Stafford + 2nd for Crosby" on us :P Defense will win two fewer games this year. My proposal was the top half of the teams next two drafts. Not stafford and a 2nd.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Defense will win two fewer games this year. My proposal was the top half of the teams next two drafts. Not stafford and a 2nd. I doubt it. Our defense isn;t taking that far of a step back. no way. Our O should win us at least 2 more games this year
TrueBlueGED Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Defense will win two fewer games this year. My proposal was the top half of the teams next two drafts. Not stafford and a 2nd. Then we'll have to agree to disagree. No team is trading the Winston pick unless unless Luck gets hurt for the year and the Colts draft first again.
SwampD Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Win what? Fan Love? No one wins playoff games with wide receivers. Watkins doesn't make the team better this season, and he doesn't make the team better next season if he cost us Jameis Winston. Watkins makes the team better this year. Ej will be better this year, Getting rid of Stevie "It Wasn't Me" Johnson makes them better this year. I really can't believe the mentality of Buffalo fans lately. The damage that Darcy has done to all of us just can't be measured imo. Losing in perpetuity in order to get better is complete BS! Winning begets winning. Period.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Watkins makes the team better this year. Ej will be better this year, Getting rid of Stevie "It Wasn't Me" Johnson makes them better this year. I really can't believe the mentality of Buffalo fans lately. The damage that Darcy has done to all of us just can't be measured imo. Losing in perpetuity in order to get better is complete BS! Winning begets winning. Period. Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. The big difference between the NFL and the NHL is there are other ways to fill that need than losing. Top draft picks get traded much more often, and top talent quarterbacks do occasionally become available. Improving the rest of the team might move the bills from 6 to 9 wins. Improving the quarterback could move them to 11. I'm going to repeat the first two sentences because they are so important: Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans.
drnkirishone Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. The big difference between the NFL and the NHL is there are other ways to fill that need than losing. Top draft picks get traded much more often, and top talent quarterbacks do occasionally become available. Improving the rest of the team might move the bills from 6 to 9 wins. Improving the quarterback could move them to 11. I'm going to repeat the first two sentences because they are so important: Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. 100% agree, have good to great qb play or go home Edited August 8, 2014 by drnkirishone
SwampD Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. The big difference between the NFL and the NHL is there are other ways to fill that need than losing. Top draft picks get traded much more often, and top talent quarterbacks do occasionally become available. Improving the rest of the team might move the bills from 6 to 9 wins. Improving the quarterback could move them to 11. I'm going to repeat the first two sentences because they are so important: Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. Not disagreeing with that. Just stating that there are different ways in which people think that you get a top talent QB. Some people think that they have come out of college and have to produce immediately or they are a bust. I think that is ridiculous and really can't wait to see what RG3, Cam Newton, Russel, etc, etc are in a couple of years. They picked their guy. It's EJ and they are sticking with him to let him develop. Now they are surrounding him with good players. That's their plan and they are sticking to it. It's a good plan. To say that we should have kept our pick in case we are bad is a loser's mentality.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Not disagreeing with that. Just stating that there are different ways in which people think that you get a top talent QB. Some people think that they have come out of college and have to produce immediately or they are a bust. I think that is ridiculous and really can't wait to see what RG3, Cam Newton, Russel, etc, etc are in a couple of years. They picked their guy. It's EJ and they are sticking with him to let him develop. Now they are surrounding him with good players. That's their plan and they are sticking to it. It's a good plan. To say that we should have kept our pick in case we are bad is a loser's mentality. Ah! I'm not being clear. I'm all for getting all the talent you can at any time winning isn't the enemy here. The only caveat is you can't trad first round picks away until you are sure you have your guy under center. I think they'll be bad because EJ lacks in the two most important talent characteristics nfl QBs need: accuracy and reading defenses. But even if they win 7 games, they still could have used that pick to move up and get a QB. WRs are flashy and exciting, but they are the 5th or 6th most important position.
LGR4GM Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 The problem with the bills has been and continues to be their horrendous drafting. If I could swap EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins for Cordarrelle Paterson, Aaron Murray/AJ McCarron and AnthonyBarr/Eric Ebron/Taylor Lewan I would simply because looking at it EJ isn't a 1st round QB and that pick again could have been used more wisely. EJ to me has a ton of things to prove this season and next. I hope new ownership can finally get GM and Coach in here who know how to draft smart and not reach which is something the bills seem to do.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Ah! I'm not being clear. I'm all for getting all the talent you can at any time winning isn't the enemy here. The only caveat is you can't trad first round picks away until you are sure you have your guy under center. I think they'll be bad because EJ lacks in the two most important talent characteristics nfl QBs need: accuracy and reading defenses. But even if they win 7 games, they still could have used that pick to move up and get a QB. WRs are flashy and exciting, but they are the 5th or 6th most important position. nobody in the top 3 next year is going to trade away their pick. Not with Winston coming out. And frankly I really don't forsee us being bottom 3, let alone top 10 pick. The problem with the bills has been and continues to be their horrendous drafting. If I could swap EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins for Cordarrelle Paterson, Aaron Murray/AJ McCarron and AnthonyBarr/Eric Ebron/Taylor Lewan I would simply because looking at it EJ isn't a 1st round QB and that pick again could have been used more wisely. EJ to me has a ton of things to prove this season and next. I hope new ownership can finally get GM and Coach in here who know how to draft smart and not reach which is something the bills seem to do. all reports are showing that Ebron is having a really tough time adjusting to the speed of the game and the different routes a TE needs to run. Anthony Barr has looked the part, but with Kiko and drafting Preston Brown (who we got as a steal I think), there really isn't a palce for Barr. And where does Lewan fit in? We already had a great LT. We got another in the 7th round bc of his character flaws, and he's actually doing better than Lewan per NFL.com's report earlier this week. what have Murray and McCarron done so far? EJ wasn't even supposed to be starting last year. He was supposed to be learning while a veteran had the reigns last year. I really think EJ will pull it together over the next two years, and he'll far exceed a lot of expectations. he needs time. Everyone knew coming out he had raw talent that needed developing. Jim Kelly wasn't the Bills greatest passer overnight. Other great quarterbacks have struggled their first year or two before putting it all together. give the kid a chance. At the end of this year, if he has shown 0 improvement, I will eat my words. until then, I will vehemently disagree with you
Hoss Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 nobody in the top 3 next year is going to trade away their pick. Not with Winston coming out. And frankly I really don't forsee us being bottom 3, let alone top 10 pick. I know some will laugh, but Winston isn't coming out. Barring some pending violations he'll be playing all four years at FSU. He loves college, football and baseball. He isn't giving it up early. And yes, I know plenty of players claim they want to play all four years... But I believe him.
dEnnis the Menace Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 I know some will laugh, but Winston isn't coming out. Barring some pending violations he'll be playing all four years at FSU. He loves college, football and baseball. He isn't giving it up early. And yes, I know plenty of players claim they want to play all four years... But I believe him. so if Winston doesn't come out of school this year, then who is the undisputed top QB that we will be missing out on? because frankly, I don't see the need to draft another 1st round QB until the year after next (the next 1st round draft pick that we have).
Iron Crotch Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. The big difference between the NFL and the NHL is there are other ways to fill that need than losing. Top draft picks get traded much more often, and top talent quarterbacks do occasionally become available. Improving the rest of the team might move the bills from 6 to 9 wins. Improving the quarterback could move them to 11. I'm going to repeat the first two sentences because they are so important: Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. So the Seahawks won the Super Bowl because they had one of the top quarterbacks? Really? Russell Wilson was efficient, but he was 32nd in the NFL in passing yards per game. The best defense in the league and 4th best rushing attack (plus limiting turnovers, etc.) is why the 'hawks were good. In any sport there is no one way to win. Certainly having a really good QB helps. But, you can win a Super Bowl without one.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 so if Winston doesn't come out of school this year, then who is the undisputed top QB that we will be missing out on? because frankly, I don't see the need to draft another 1st round QB until the year after next (the next 1st round draft pick that we have). It's not just about picking next year. It's about spending the teams two most valuable assets to get a position player that isn't the difference between winning and losing. Arizona had Boldin and Fitzgerald together for 4 years before they finally got to the playoffs (2 years in a row). The difference? They finally quit playing games and made the proven top 12 talented QB (Warner) the Starting Quarterback and he was able to stay healthy for the entire season. 4 playoff wins later Warner retires ==> Cards go 5-11. So the Seahawks won the Super Bowl because they had one of the top quarterbacks? Really? Russell Wilson was efficient, but he was 32nd in the NFL in passing yards per game. The best defense in the league and 4th best rushing attack (plus limiting turnovers, etc.) is why the 'hawks were good. In any sport there is no one way to win. Certainly having a really good QB helps. But, you can win a Super Bowl without one. Dude had a passer rating over 100 both his seasons? whatdya want? Russell Wilson is a top 12 Quarterback.
nfreeman Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Top Talent Quarterbacks beget winning in the NFL. The way the rules are structured and enforced right now, there is literally no other relevant differentiator between annual playoff teams and also rans. You are forgetting the crucial "Mickey Mouse organization that goes cheap on GM and coach and lets its best players walk in FA every year" factor.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 You are forgetting the crucial "Mickey Mouse organization that goes cheap on GM and coach and lets its best players walk in FA every year" factor. Well, that certainly won't help...
LGR4GM Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 so if Winston doesn't come out of school this year, then who is the undisputed top QB that we will be missing out on? because frankly, I don't see the need to draft another 1st round QB until the year after next (the next 1st round draft pick that we have). Marcus Mariota. Also the Bills haven't drafted a 1st round QB as far as I am concerned.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Marcus Mariota. Also the Bills haven't drafted a 1st round QB as far as I am concerned. They tried, they didn't get the right guy, but at least they tried, they drafted one of the top QBs, they didn't wait and miss out. They just need to keep trying.
Iron Crotch Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Dude had a passer rating over 100 both his seasons? whatdya want? Russell Wilson is a top 12 Quarterback. Of course... in a run first offense with very few passing attempts. The 'hawks run the ball to the point where the linebackers and safeties have to cheat up to stop the run. Then things open up for the QB. He is a game manager, at least at this point in his career. BTW - Wilson was a third round pick, which works against your whole tanking argument.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Of course... in a run first offense with very few passing attempts. The 'hawks run the ball to the point where the linebackers and safeties have to cheat up to stop the run. Then things open up for the QB. He is a game manager, at least at this point in his career. BTW - Wilson was a third round pick, which works against your whole tanking argument. Please reread my posts above. I specifically say that in the NFL winning doesn't hurt you. Teams draft more positionally than in the NHL were it's pretty much BPA. No need to tank, but you gotta keep your picks until you find the guy.
Iron Crotch Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Please reread my posts above. I specifically say that in the NFL winning doesn't hurt you. Teams draft more positionally than in the NHL were it's pretty much BPA. No need to tank, but you gotta keep your picks until you find the guy. My apologies. I'm just getting a little tired of the obsession with losing on purpose that seems to have become all the rage around Western New York these days! ;)
SwampD Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Please reread my posts above. I specifically say that in the NFL winning doesn't hurt you. Teams draft more positionally than in the NHL were it's pretty much BPA. No need to tank, but you gotta keep your picks until you find the guy. That's a very nice, safe, corporate approach. I'm glad they took a chance. After watching my team punt on 4th an 1 from the other team's 40 when we were in last place and haven't seen the playoffs in a decade. Screw the safe choice. Take a f'n chance and give me a reason to watch.
TrueBlueGED Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 The problem with the bills has been and continues to be their horrendous drafting. If I could swap EJ Manuel and Sammy Watkins for Cordarrelle Paterson, Aaron Murray/AJ McCarron and AnthonyBarr/Eric Ebron/Taylor Lewan I would simply because looking at it EJ isn't a 1st round QB and that pick again could have been used more wisely. EJ to me has a ton of things to prove this season and next. I hope new ownership can finally get GM and Coach in here who know how to draft smart and not reach which is something the bills seem to do. Patterson had 45 catches for less than 450 yards. Murray and McCarron have no more (and I'd argue less) of a chance of becoming good NFL starters than EJ. And everything Dennis said. I think your hate of EJ has robbed you of reason. That's a very nice, safe, corporate approach. I'm glad they took a chance. After watching my team punt on 4th an 1 from the other team's 40 when we were in last place and haven't seen the playoffs in a decade. Screw the safe choice. Take a f'n chance and give me a reason to watch. I agree with both you and Glass. They have to keep trying to find their guy, but I still am happy they took a chance on an elite talent. It may well not matter, but at 15years without playoffs, risking delaying our return by a measly one more doesn't mean much to me.
LastPommerFan Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 That's a very nice, safe, corporate approach. I'm glad they took a chance. After watching my team punt on 4th an 1 from the other team's 40 when we were in last place and haven't seen the playoffs in a decade. Screw the safe choice. Take a f'n chance and give me a reason to watch. Fair enough, I'm even in this boat as a fan, my argument is more me playing keyboard GM. I don't care if the bills win the Superbowl, or even a playoff game. I just want to watch one stinking post season NFL game and actually care.
TrueBlueGED Posted August 8, 2014 Report Posted August 8, 2014 Fair enough, I'm even in this boat as a fan, my argument is more me playing keyboard GM. I don't care if the bills win the Superbowl, or even a playoff game. I just want to watch one stinking post season NFL game and actually care. Then just become a Broncos fan. They even deliver excruciating championship losses that we all know and love :P
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