PromoTheRobot Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) But if a defense finishes #20 in scoring D, can a segment of that defense really be considered "elite?" I would say the pass rush was much improved and the 2ndary pass D was pretty good, but I just can't see using the word "elite" to describe any major component of a D that overall was mediocre (which itself was a step up from the terrible D displayed over the previous 5 years or so, but still nothing to write home about). Brandon has been with the team since 2006. Whaley since 2010. Were they "aggressive" about keeping Byrd? I'd rather be optimistic than pessimistic about the Bills, but I need also to be realistic. Being aggressive keeping Byrd would involve taking his family hostage. Sometimes people don't want stay. They signed Williams and moved on. Teams lose players, even good teams. They get over it. Edited July 8, 2014 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 But if a defense finishes #20 in scoring D, can a segment of that defense really be considered "elite?" I would say the pass rush was much improved and the 2ndary pass D was pretty good, but I just can't see using the word "elite" to describe any major component of a D that overall was mediocre (which itself was a step up from the terrible D displayed over the previous 5 years or so, but still nothing to write home about). Brandon has been with the team since 2006. Whaley since 2010. Were they "aggressive" about keeping Byrd? I'd rather be optimistic than pessimistic about the Bills, but I need also to be realistic. 1) wasn't the D rated #10 overall last year? or am I thinking combined D and you guys discussing the parts? 2) Whaley has been around since 2010, but only calling the shots since last year. I have more faith in him and his aggressive nature than the previous few GMs 3) in all honesty, Byrd wasn't signing. Let's not kid ourselves there. No matter how aggressive they were, they would've had to pay him an astronomical amount for a player that has had chronic foot and leg issues. He is a great safety, one of the best, but I don't think he is much longer for the league if he keeps have the foot issue, especially in both feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 1) wasn't the D rated #10 overall last year? or am I thinking combined D and you guys discussing the parts? 2) Whaley has been around since 2010, but only calling the shots since last year. I have more faith in him and his aggressive nature than the previous few GMs 3) in all honesty, Byrd wasn't signing. Let's not kid ourselves there. No matter how aggressive they were, they would've had to pay him an astronomical amount for a player that has had chronic foot and leg issues. He is a great safety, one of the best, but I don't think he is much longer for the league if he keeps have the foot issue, especially in both feet. 1 -- they were 10th in yardage D and 20th in scoring D. 2 -- although Whaley wasn't calling the shots until last year, surely as heir apparent he had considerable input to the various poor decisions that were made between 2010 and 2013. 3 -- Byrd may or may not have agreed to a higher number to stay with the Bills this year, but the process of trying to extend him was botched for good in 2013, when they franchised him the first time. And speaking of aggressive, the aggressive move might've been to have franchised him again instead of letting him walk for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 "Historically bad" is exaggerating, but I don't think the loss of Pettine can be underestimated. This team was built for the 3-4. Before Kiko went down he was the only 3-down linebacker or starting caliber 4-3 OLB on the entire team... Now you're going to ask a group of guys who can't play 3 downs and shouldn't be starting to do both of those things consistently? Yikes. Teams will fly over this defense consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted July 8, 2014 Report Share Posted July 8, 2014 "Historically bad" is exaggerating, but I don't think the loss of Pettine can be underestimated. This team was built for the 3-4. Before Kiko went down he was the only 3-down linebacker or starting caliber 4-3 OLB on the entire team... Now you're going to ask a group of guys who can't play 3 downs and shouldn't be starting to do both of those things consistently? Yikes. Teams will fly over this defense consistently. You are putting way too much stock into schemes. LB's are going the way of FB's. Teams play nickle and dime over 60% of the time now. That plus the fact that Schwartz was Pettine before Pettine was Pettine and I'm not overly worried about the D. In the end, the only thing that will matter is if Manuel is what I think he is or what you think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 1 -- they were 10th in yardage D and 20th in scoring D. 2 -- although Whaley wasn't calling the shots until last year, surely as heir apparent he had considerable input to the various poor decisions that were made between 2010 and 2013. 3 -- Byrd may or may not have agreed to a higher number to stay with the Bills this year, but the process of trying to extend him was botched for good in 2013, when they franchised him the first time. And speaking of aggressive, the aggressive move might've been to have franchised him again instead of letting him walk for nothing. 1) thank you for the clarification. 2) I think Buddy was more or less in charge and Whaley was just in the backseat for much of that, but I wasn't there so I could very well be very wrong. The vibe I got from Nix during his tenure was that he was in charge, and the input of his staff was just that, just input. and based on the difference in aggressiveness between Whaley and Nix, I think it's quite obvious Whaley didn't have much say in the personnel moves (maybe I'm seeing what my optimistic eyes want to) 3) I agree the franchise tag last year was the botched point in negotiations, however, Byrd's camp wouldn't concede on anything after that. "Historically bad" is exaggerating, but I don't think the loss of Pettine can be underestimated. This team was built for the 3-4. Before Kiko went down he was the only 3-down linebacker or starting caliber 4-3 OLB on the entire team... Now you're going to ask a group of guys who can't play 3 downs and shouldn't be starting to do both of those things consistently? Yikes. Teams will fly over this defense consistently. This Preston Brown kid looks like he'll be capable of being a 3 down backer. Searcy is our Nickel/Dime backer-hybrid for now, and it's a perfect role for him. I don't think the D is going to be flown over nearly as much as you think, and I'd even be willing to wager on that. You are putting way too much stock into schemes. LB's are going the way of FB's. Teams play nickle and dime over 60% of the time now. That plus the fact that Schwartz was Pettine before Pettine was Pettine and I'm not overly worried about the D. In the end, the only thing that will matter is if Manuel is what I think he is or what you think he is. ^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 "Historically bad" is exaggerating Ok, how about hysterically bad? Does that work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Ok, how about hysterically bad? Does that work? Oui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Oui. Je suis Inigo Montoya, tu as tué mon père. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 9, 2014 Report Share Posted July 9, 2014 Je suis Inigo Montoya, tu as tué mon père. ...preparer a mourir. (Not sure how to accent on mobile so forgive me) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted July 12, 2014 Report Share Posted July 12, 2014 Interesting... Could he be selling to comply with NFL policy pertaining to owning casinos (even if he is only a silent partner) or to just get some more liquid cash, or both? http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/trump-plaza-owners-confirm-plan-to-close-in-september/article_65a7e44a-09d4-11e4-81ef-001a4bcf887a.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubkev Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Interesting... Could he be selling to comply with NFL policy pertaining to owning casinos (even if he is only a silent partner) or to just get some more liquid cash, or both? http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/breaking/trump-plaza-owners-confirm-plan-to-close-in-september/article_65a7e44a-09d4-11e4-81ef-001a4bcf887a.html No it's because Atlantic City is a shithole and the casinos are all on life support with the exception of Borgata. Atlantic City will be completely dead in 15 years. There's no NYC money coming in anymore, it all goes to Connecticut and Pennsyltucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILFHUNTER#518 Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 The timing just raises eyebrows though...I don't know the economic situation there, however am shocked at your testimony about how nobody wants to go there. I have never been but know people that have gone there in the past year and stated it was very busy, and was the ideal vacation spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 The timing just raises eyebrows though...I don't know the economic situation there, however am shocked at your testimony about how nobody wants to go there. I have never been but know people that have gone there in the past year and stated it was very busy, and was the ideal vacation spot Do they live on the west side of rochester? Those are the only people I know who would utter such nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 No it's because Atlantic City is a shithole and the casinos are all on life support with the exception of Borgata. Atlantic City will be completely dead in 15 years. There's no NYC money coming in anymore, it all goes to Connecticut and Pennsyltucky. This. Casinos are closing in Atlantic City. Not enough demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 This. Casinos are closing in Atlantic City. Not enough demand. Not to mention, they are too expensive. Table minimums there are ridiculous. Cheaper gambling options can be had just about everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Sheesh. Germans are flopping all over the place. That headshot looked like it hurt Oooohhhh. So close... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Sheesh. Germans are flopping all over the place. That headshot looked like it hurt Oooohhhh. So close... Wrong football thread methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Wrong football thread methinks. oh yeah.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted July 13, 2014 Report Share Posted July 13, 2014 Wrong football thread methinks. He's talking about Kiko.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 14, 2014 Report Share Posted July 14, 2014 No it's because Atlantic City is a shithole and the casinos are all on life support with the exception of Borgata. Atlantic City will be completely dead in 15 years. There's no NYC money coming in anymore, it all goes to Connecticut and Pennsyltucky. The timing just raises eyebrows though...I don't know the economic situation there, however am shocked at your testimony about how nobody wants to go there. I have never been but know people that have gone there in the past year and stated it was very busy, and was the ideal vacation spot Trump is closing up this summer. AC is interesting once in awhile, but realistically it's a pretty shady beach town with Casinos. Once the Casinos dry up, it'll just be a shady beach town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 For those who are interested in collectibles, Sammy Watkins will be a part of McFarlane Toys NFL 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm worried about the Bills D. Schwartz is not Pettine. I think Pettine really schemed his way to a good D. It was exotic blitz after exotic blitz. I fully expect them to take a big step back. This was Jim Schwartz's D before becoming a head coach. Do you think our Players resemble that loaded roster? LDE Jevon Kearse LDT Tony Brown RDT Albert Haynesworth RDE Kyle Vanden Bosch LLB David Thornton MLB Stephen Tulloch RLB Keith Bulluck LCB Nick Harper RCB Cortland Finnegan SS Chris Hope FS Michael Griffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 I'm worried about the Bills D. Schwartz is not Pettine. I think Pettine really schemed his way to a good D. It was exotic blitz after exotic blitz. I fully expect them to take a big step back. This was Jim Schwartz's D before becoming a head coach. Do you think our Players resemble that loaded roster? LDE Jevon Kearse LDT Tony Brown RDT Albert Haynesworth RDE Kyle Vanden Bosch LLB David Thornton MLB Stephen Tulloch RLB Keith Bulluck LCB Nick Harper RCB Cortland Finnegan SS Chris Hope FS Michael Griffin Outside of the linebackers, yes. Kearse was a hollow shell of himself at that point, Vanden Bosch was just very good, and Dareus/Williams hold up very well against those tackles. There's concerns for sure (linebacker and the safety not named Aaron Williams) but I don't think it's a night and day comparison at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Outside of the linebackers, yes. Kearse was a hollow shell of himself at that point, Vanden Bosch was just very good, and Dareus/Williams hold up very well against those tackles. There's concerns for sure (linebacker and the safety not named Aaron Williams) but I don't think it's a night and day comparison at all. I agree. I actually think the Bills' secondary might be better than that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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