inkman Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Per Tim Graham. Whaley to lead coaching search. Gase is first interview followed by Frank Reich. Schwartz will get an interview as well I has a scared
Eleven Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 I has a scared Me too. Maybe they'll pull a UB and hire a D-III all star.
inkman Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Me too. Maybe they'll pull a UB and hire a D-III all star. Given the list of candidates (minus Schwartz who I think would be appropriate), a DIII coach might not be all that bad.
nfreeman Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Who exactly are "The Bills" in this interview process? If Brandon was out of the loop re: Polian, he wouldn't be choosing a new head coach, would he? It's Whaley's hire, of course, as long as he's returning. Al Haig? Who's in charge? Good effing question. Per Tim Graham. Whaley to lead coaching search. Gase is first interview followed by Frank Reich. Schwartz will get an interview as well So that's it? Polian passes and now Whaley is running the show again?
Eleven Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Good effing question. So that's it? Polian passes and now Whaley is running the show again? For better or for worse, he is the GM. It's his job.
darksabre Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Ugh why is Whaley still here? I hate the Bills.
TrueBlueGED Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 So that's it? Polian passes and now Whaley is running the show again? Well, I don't think the plan was ever to fire Whaley even if Polian took the job. If Polian really did turn away because it became a bigger job with needing to find a coach, I'd be surprised if he had planned on finding a GM. So Whaley was likely to be involved in the football decisions anyway. The only thing we have to do is fall backwards into a HoF QB and everyone is a genius anyway.
inkman Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Ugh why is Whaley still here? I hate the Bills. I like Doug. I think he's had some mistakes with 1st rounders but he's nailed almost every other round. He came up through Pittsburgh, who has made a living of finding late round talent. I think there is something to that.
WildCard Posted January 2, 2015 Author Report Posted January 2, 2015 Ugh why is Whaley still here? I hate the Bills. I like Doug. I think he's had some mistakes with 1st rounders but he's nailed almost every other round. He came up through Pittsburgh, who has made a living of finding late round talent. I think there is something to that. Agreed Ink. I don't really get all of the hate for Doug. He seems pretty adept at finding strong talent in later rounds. Besides his (apparent) fudge up with Watkins and (most likely) Manuel, he's done great as GM.
Stoner Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Well, I don't think the plan was ever to fire Whaley even if Polian took the job. If Polian really did turn away because it became a bigger job with needing to find a coach, I'd be surprised if he had planned on finding a GM. So Whaley was likely to be involved in the football decisions anyway. The only thing we have to do is fall backwards into a HoF QB and everyone is a genius anyway. It looks a bit chaotic and seems to echo the PLF situation. We want a president-type, until we don't have one, and then it doesn't matter. And, wait for it... chaos does not work for Buffalo sports teams!
TrueBlueGED Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 It looks a bit chaotic and seems to echo the PLF situation. We want a president-type, until we don't have one, and then it doesn't matter. And, wait for it... chaos does not work for Buffalo sports teams! Oh, it definitely looks chaotic, I will grant you that. I just don't think Polian was going to come in and do a complete overhaul of the football department if needing to hire a coach is too big of a commitment.
Hoss Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Agreed Ink. I don't really get all of the hate for Doug. He seems pretty adept at finding strong talent in later rounds. Besides his (apparent) fudge up with Watkins and (most likely) Manuel, he's done great as GM. Besides putting my fingers in the food disposal the rest of my hand is pretty good.
tom webster Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Besides putting my fingers in the food disposal the rest of my hand is pretty good. Again, make me a list of those available GM's that went out and unearthed a QB that no one else knew was a slam dunk. Even Seatle waited till the third round on Wilson and only after throwing huge money at Matt Flynn. If making a mistake on picking a QB was a fire able offense, the whole league would be looking to replace their talent evaluators! As for Polian, what the hell was he expecting the job to be. If you believe all the reports, he didn't want to hire a coach, deal with dysfunction in the organization and be paid like a consultant. Apparently he wanted President money to put his stamp of approval on everything.
Hoss Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) Again, make me a list of those available GM's that went out and unearthed a QB that no one else knew was a slam dunk. Even Seatle waited till the third round on Wilson and only after throwing huge money at Matt Flynn. If making a mistake on picking a QB was a fire able offense, the whole league would be looking to replace their talent evaluators! As for Polian, what the hell was he expecting the job to be. If you believe all the reports, he didn't want to hire a coach, deal with dysfunction in the organization and be paid like a consultant. Apparently he wanted President money to put his stamp of approval on everything. None of what you're saying excuses taking a mediocre prospect in the first round. I don't even understand your argument. Essentially all of your posts lately have been telling everybody they're wrong without providing a sliver of evidence as to what is right. So because other teams were smart enough to not waste a first round on a highly questionable QB in that draft it's okay that Whaley did? Got it. Also, I'm sure if you made a list of GMs who whiffed terribly on first-round QBs and didn't properly address the position in the years after you would likely see a very high (say 100%) percentage of guys who were fired. ###### up the most important position in football isn't a good thing. I don't hate Whaley. He has potential and isn't scared to go for it, but his two biggest moves yet were bad moves. I'm hopeful that he's ready to make up for it with the looming decisions at QB and coach. Edited January 2, 2015 by Tank
inkman Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 I still think Watkins emerges as the best player from last year's draft and they took a stab at their highest rated QB in a weak draft class. Glad they went for it, despite the result. Oh and Whaley had one offseason following Manuel who was on track to be the starter the whole time.
Samson's Flow Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 I still think Watkins emerges as the best player from last year's draft and they took a stab at their highest rated QB in a weak draft class. Glad they went for it, despite the result. Oh and Whaley had one offseason following Manuel who was on track to be the starter the whole time. I don't have as much of a problem with the Watkins trade as most seem to. I'd rather my GM be aggressive and get "their guy" than hang back and hope things work out. Given the relative uncertainty of the draft process (even in the first round), if you think the player has talent and is a sure thing, no issue with the cost to get said player. Does anyone remember the players that were given up by Atlanta to get Julio Jones? I would bet most people just know that Julio is an elite #1 receiver. A lot of sports discussion seems to put a huge priority on futures/prospects/draft picks value, when the game is won by elite, matchup-winning players.
TrueBlueGED Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 I still think Watkins emerges as the best player from last year's draft and they took a stab at their highest rated QB in a weak draft class. Glad they went for it, despite the result. Oh and Whaley had one offseason following Manuel who was on track to be the starter the whole time. Agreed. I also always wonder how much of the Manuel pick was Nix and how much was Whaley. I can't imagine Whaley wouldn't be on board with the team knowing the succession plan in place, but I do wonder who was really driving the bus on that one.
Hoss Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 I don't have as much of a problem with the Watkins trade as most seem to. I'd rather my GM be aggressive and get "their guy" than hang back and hope things work out. Given the relative uncertainty of the draft process (even in the first round), if you think the player has talent and is a sure thing, no issue with the cost to get said player. Does anyone remember the players that were given up by Atlanta to get Julio Jones? I would bet most people just know that Julio is an elite #1 receiver. A lot of sports discussion seems to put a huge priority on futures/prospects/draft picks value, when the game is won by elite, matchup-winning players. Atlanta also had to move up 21 spots. We moved up 5. My biggest issue is that the move could have been made without giving up the second first rounder. There's no way that giving up two firsts was the only way to make the deal.
Iron Crotch Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 There is a fine line between "aggressive" and "reckless."
Samson's Flow Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 For further context in the Julio trade (which I think is the closest comparison to the Watkins trade in the last few years) "the Atlanta Falcons traded picks 27, 59, 124 in the 2011 draft and their 2012 1st and 4th round picks to the Cleveland Browns to draft Alabama WR Julio Jones." On first glance at the time of the trade, that seems like an absurd haul for the Browns. Many media outlets were saying that it is way too much to give up for one player. It goes to show that the unknown "first round pick player" is perceived as more valuable than the actual player turns out to be. Let us look at who the Browns ended up getting with those picks for Julio. Since it has been 2-3 seasons since the trade, we can probably accurately gauge the value of the players now. "In exchange for giving up the pick that became Jones, the Browns got defensive tackle Phil Taylor (Atlanta's 2011 first-round pick), wide receiver Greg Little, (2011 second-round pick), fullback Owen Marecic (2011 fourth-round pick) and quarterback Brandon Weeden (2012 first-round pick). Cleveland also used a 2012 fourth-round pick in that deal as part of the package to trade up one spot for running back Trent Richardson." The only player that is still on the team now is Phil Taylor. I don't think you can count the Trent Richardson haul since the 4th rounder wasn't the key piece in the trade to get him. Would anyone here not trade a starting DT for a elite WR?
K-9 Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Agreed. I also always wonder how much of the Manuel pick was Nix and how much was Whaley. I can't imagine Whaley wouldn't be on board with the team knowing the succession plan in place, but I do wonder who was really driving the bus on that one. Manuel was a consensus pick, as most are. Nobody has pounded a table for a pick since Jauron demanded Maybin. But if you're asking who was in the Kirk chair for that draft, it was Whaley. He had assumed Nix's responsibilities at the start of the 2012 season for the most part and was defacto GM well before he was officially named after the 2013 draft. This is Manuel's make or break season, he either makes the job his or he doesn't. Year three has always been the "show me" year for NFL draft selections that haven't previously. Too early to just dismiss him at this point and I'd be surprised if they did. I agree with Ink. Watkins was rated the best offensive player in the draft by a wide margin and I'll wager he ends up having the best career of them all by the time it's done. And I say that knowing he doesn't have a great QB to get him the ball as I type this. He's rare player and has been since he entered college where he had an unprecedented career. GO BILLS!!!
Samson's Flow Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 Atlanta also had to move up 21 spots. We moved up 5. My biggest issue is that the move could have been made without giving up the second first rounder. There's no way that giving up two firsts was the only way to make the deal. I also agree that the trade probably could have been made for our 2014 1st and 2nd, but we can't say for sure. We can only judge based on what it actually took to make the deal, otherwise we could speculate that he should have held out for a trade of the #1 and Craig Urbik. Who knows. I won't really care in a few years, since success in sports is mostly about who has the most elite, matchup winning players. Our Defense is great because we have matchup winning players all over our d-line. Watkins looks like a matchup winning WR for years to come. Opponents have to double him, leading to one-on-ones with Woods, etc. Manuel was a consensus pick, as most are. Nobody has pounded a table for a pick since Jauron demanded Maybin. But if you're asking who was in the Kirk chair for that draft, it was Whaley. He had assumed Nix's responsibilities at the start of the 2012 season for the most part and was defacto GM well before he was officially named after the 2013 draft. Keep in mind that Nix was quoted the season prior that he will acquire a franchise quarterback as part of his legacy as Bills GM. I think that Manuel was the last reminants of the Nix era. But without concrete factual proof, that is a debate that could go on for ages with no resolution.
tom webster Posted January 2, 2015 Report Posted January 2, 2015 None of what you're saying excuses taking a mediocre prospect in the first round. I don't even understand your argument. Essentially all of your posts lately have been telling everybody they're wrong without providing a sliver of evidence as to what is right. So because other teams were smart enough to not waste a first round on a highly questionable QB in that draft it's okay that Whaley did? Got it. Also, I'm sure if you made a list of GMs who whiffed terribly on first-round QBs and didn't properly address the position in the years after you would likely see a very high (say 100%) percentage of guys who were fired. ###### up the most important position in football isn't a good thing. I don't hate Whaley. He has potential and isn't scared to go for it, but his two biggest moves yet were bad moves. I'm hopeful that he's ready to make up for it with the looming decisions at QB and coach. The argument is that they all make mistakes or they aren't trying. He's been the GM two years and in my opinion the organization is better for it. Your biggest problem is that you continue to state your opinion as fact. While the prevailing opinion was that EJ wasn't a first round talent, there were those that thought it was a risky but good pick. It's not like he picked him over Luck or Newton. As you said, he has proven he's not afraid to take risks. I think he has earned the right to finish the job and I'm glad that for now he is staying.
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