JJFIVEOH Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 I'm only half listening but I thought he was making a point about how Marrone can never give a straight answer. Marrone said something like "I was texting him or trying to call him..." and that's fairly weird since you'd think he'd know which one it was. And if it was both, just say "and" there. Marrone is a master of speaking lots and lots of words that mean absolutely nothing. His answers to direct questions are pretty frustrating. Good point. The way Schopp and guys like Harrington twist words and harp on them for days on end, I'd probably be pretty vague too. ;) Seriously, I doubt these guys could care less about Schopp and Harrington.
Jsixspd Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 Well, so much for the controversy over whether to keep Orton or get another QB. Oakland, #uckin Oakland I wouldn't worry about it. Had the Bills beat Oakland last week, then the Patriots would have actually wanted to win today's game to eliminate the Bills. NE had nothing to gain in this game, and played it like a pre-season. Even then the Bills only managed 17 points. Bills offense is beyond sad.
TrueBlueGED Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 Just for the record: the "the trade is OK b/c I'd rather have Watkins than Ebron and the #19" meme is a false construct that gives Whaley too much credit. The Bills needed a WR. There were a bunch that went in the 1st round this year that had great rookie years and that would've helped the Bills more or less as much as Sammy did this year. None of those guys would've cost the Bills the extra #1. Whaley was going to take Ebron over those other WRs. That is another Whaley mistake. It isn't a reason to think it was a good trade. If Whaley was going to take my dearly departed grandmother instead of Beckham (or Evans, or Benjamin, or Matthews, or any of the others), but instead traded for Watkins, the comparison wouldn't be "nfreeman's deceased grandmother and the #19 pick vs Watkins." Nonsense. The reality is we were getting Watkins or Ebron and #19 (or 13 or whatever if we lost 1 more game). It's not a defense of Whaley as you could easily say both of those choices suck. But as it turns out, those were the choices. A false construct is injecting whatever GM Freeman, Eleven, Tank, or whoever else would have done. There is no magic door #3 in this case. By all means crush Whaley for those being the options if you think they were both terrible, but given that choice, I'm glad they made the one they did. That's it. Doesn't mean I think Whaley is great and want him retained no matter what.
MattPie Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 The majority of reports had Watkins listed as the best WR available. If the other three were so highly touted, how come they didn't go in the top 5 in the draft? Are Mike Evan's number inflated because there were no #3 and #4 receivers and/or RB's to throw at? I get blasted for not having enough 'context' in my comparisons, seems like this latest discussion is lacking it as well. I'm not draft expert, but from what I've read here most teams won't use a very-early pick on a WR when there are (almost by definition) "the best X available this draft" where X is linebacker, various OL and DL postions, etc. I'm only half listening but I thought he was making a point about how Marrone can never give a straight answer. Marrone said something like "I was texting him or trying to call him..." and that's fairly weird since you'd think he'd know which one it was. And if it was both, just say "and" there. I've said this before with players, and it may well apply to most head coaches: these are jocks; people are trying to read too much into that they say beyond "our guy fell down too many times in the wrong place, where the other teams guys fell down in the right places all afternoon".
JujuFish Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 Well, so much for the controversy over whether to keep Orton or get another QB. I wouldn't worry about it. Had the Bills beat Oakland last week, then the Patriots would have actually wanted to win today's game to eliminate the Bills. NE had nothing to gain in this game, and played it like a pre-season. Even then the Bills only managed 17 points. Bills offense is beyond sad. The Bills wouldn't be in with a win against Oakland. They'd lose the common opponents tiebreaker to Baltimore. They needed to have beaten the Chargers, Texans, or the second Dolphins game to tie the Ravens on common opponents and push it to the SOV tiebreaker which they own.
dEnnis the Menace Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 Nonsense. The reality is we were getting Watkins or Ebron and #19 (or 13 or whatever if we lost 1 more game). It's not a defense of Whaley as you could easily say both of those choices suck. But as it turns out, those were the choices. A false construct is injecting whatever GM Freeman, Eleven, Tank, or whoever else would have done. There is no magic door #3 in this case. By all means crush Whaley for those being the options if you think they were both terrible, but given that choice, I'm glad they made the one they did. That's it. Doesn't mean I think Whaley is great and want him retained no matter what. This is exactly the way I was viewing it.
JJFIVEOH Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 I'm not draft expert, but from what I've read here most teams won't use a very-early pick on a WR when there are (almost by definition) "the best X available this draft" where X is linebacker, various OL and DL postions, etc. Weren't there two or three teams seriously interested in taking Watkins early in the draft? I have to hope that the Bills swung the deal because they knew Sammy would be taken before Buffalo drafted originally. I also have to assume that it's not easy to swing a deal early in the draft so Buffalo had to go with what they could get. Either way, we ended up with an elite wide receiver that should be all-star potential for years to come. Something that's tough to come by, and the Bills have a great one-two punch. If the Bills had swung that deal and they ended up with a bust I could see the criticism.
K-9 Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 I'm not draft expert, but from what I've read here most teams won't use a very-early pick on a WR when there are (almost by definition) "the best X available this draft" where X is linebacker, various OL and DL postions Depends entirely on the receiver or any other player at any position rated as highly. I'd be willing to wager that in all his years in the game, Whaley saw less than a handful of players with a higher consensus rating in the peronnel community than Watkins. About as blue chip prospect as you can be. GO BILLS!!!
inkman Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 Depends entirely on the receiver or any other player at any position rated as highly. I'd be willing to wager that in all his years in the game, Whaley saw less than a handful of players with a higher consensus rating in the peronnel community than Watkins. About as blue chip prospect as you can be. GO BILLS!!! This. There Were huge ???? with both Evans and Beckham. Sammy was the only sure thing. I'd like to add that Watkins reminds me of a young Julio Jones and Beckham looks like a Desean Jackson clone.
calti Posted December 29, 2014 Report Posted December 29, 2014 Orton being gone will hurt slightly next year but will assist in the long run. EJ is not an NFL starter. Better that the Bills are forced to confront reality. Cutler,Sanchez....If we get either then its more wasted yrs for this joke franchise. Clean up the mess Terry.-Spend $ on top football people...not people who needlessly trade away #1s or draft 5th round QBs in the 1st.
Hoss Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 @SiriusXMNFL: .@AdamSchefter: It wouldnt surprise me at all if Doug Marrone opts out of his deal with the Buffalo Bills. He would be coveted
inkman Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 @SiriusXMNFL: .@AdamSchefter: It wouldnt surprise me at all if Doug Marrone opts out of his deal with the Buffalo Bills. He would be coveted Please God let this happen
Hoss Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Coveted? .....by who? I think he would get just as many looks now as he did before based on the 9-7 season.
inkman Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I think he would get just as many looks now as he did before based on the 9-7 season. The NFL is stupid
Claude Balls Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 The Bills had their tall red zone target WR, Marrone just didn't feel he was needed due the all the success they had scoring from outside the 20 this year. I would not be upset if Marrone left, it might be the only way we get rid of his little buddy.
Brawndo Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Polian on XM Sirius asked about the Bills Job. https://soundcloud.c...ffalo-non-story Tim Graham @ByTimGraham · 8h8 hours ago The more I hear, the more I'm inclined to believe Bill Polian will return to the Bills. But nothing guaranteed. Edited December 30, 2014 by BRAWNDO
Hoss Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Polian's denial today was much weaker than two days ago. All he would say this time is "I'm here not there today." And "I'll be working with ESPN this weekend."
nfreeman Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Nonsense. The reality is we were getting Watkins or Ebron and #19 (or 13 or whatever if we lost 1 more game). It's not a defense of Whaley as you could easily say both of those choices suck. But as it turns out, those were the choices. A false construct is injecting whatever GM Freeman, Eleven, Tank, or whoever else would have done. There is no magic door #3 in this case. By all means crush Whaley for those being the options if you think they were both terrible, but given that choice, I'm glad they made the one they did. That's it. Doesn't mean I think Whaley is great and want him retained no matter what. Huh? Was there some powerful invisible force limiting Whaley to those 2 options? Not sure what point you're making here. Isn't the question really "what should the Bills have done in the 2014 draft?" Does anyone really care about the question, "if you can only have either Watkins or Ebron plus the #19 in 2015, which would you rather have?"
Brawndo Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Polian's denial today was much weaker than two days ago. All he would say this time is "I'm here not there today." And "I'll be working with ESPN this weekend." Yeah, the prevailing wisdom is that he is waiting until the HoF Vote is completed at the SuperBowl prior to accepting a position with the Bills.
TrueBlueGED Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Huh? Was there some powerful invisible force limiting Whaley to those 2 options? Not sure what point you're making here. Isn't the question really "what should the Bills have done in the 2014 draft?" Does anyone really care about the question, "if you can only have either Watkins or Ebron plus the #19 in 2015, which would you rather have?" Other than Whaley himself? Credible reports (see: Tim Graham, who does not engage in rumormongering) had Ebron as the likely pick if we didn't complete the Watkins trade. People should care about that question, because those are the options Whaley was debating between. The whole "I'd have taken Beckham and still had a 1st this year" is all well and good, and maybe that's what Whaley should have done, but it's irrelevant because Whaley wasn't going to take Beckham. For reference: http://bills.buffalonews.com/2014/05/09/inside-draft-room-buffalo-made-trade-land-sammy-watkins/
Randall Flagg Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 There was a thread on TBD a while ago about Whaley visiting a bills-backers bar in California during the road Miami game, and he told the poster who started that thread that he was going to take Ebron as well.
That Aud Smell Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I'm praying Polian is in the PLF (Phil Jackson) role, not the actual GM role.
K-9 Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 Other than Whaley himself? Credible reports (see: Tim Graham, who does not engage in rumormongering) had Ebron as the likely pick if we didn't complete the Watkins trade. People should care about that question, because those are the options Whaley was debating between. The whole "I'd have taken Beckham and still had a 1st this year" is all well and good, and maybe that's what Whaley should have done, but it's irrelevant because Whaley wasn't going to take Beckham. For reference: http://bills.buffalo...-sammy-watkins/ I think the two questions are getting conflated. What Whaley "should" have done is different than "what did we give away to draft Watkins." It was pretty well established by Whaley himself that he would have chosen Ebron at 9. Now that we know we would have had the 19th pick in the upcoming draft, we have a little more quantification in that regard. It's worth noting that we also had trade down scenarios as well if Ebron was already gone by the time we picked at 9. We would have traded down into the low/mid teens and we would have taken, you guessed it, Beckham. I think the Giants surprised some when they took him at 12 though. I think Zach Martin would have been the choice with Beckham off the board. GO BILLS!!!
Hoss Posted December 30, 2014 Report Posted December 30, 2014 I'm praying Polian is in the PLF (Phil Jackson) role, not the actual GM role. I don't think there's any chance of that. But the worst-case scenario is him coming back and appointing his son GM.
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