OFFICIAL: Ryan Miller, Steve Ott to St. Louis for Chris Stewart, Halak, Carrier and two picks

[SabresBillsFan]

 

 

It was a no-brainer mandatory trade for the Sabres. The best part was that Miller didn't re-sign with the Blues. I think it is more advantageous to keep the 2nd and 3rd round pick rather than get a late Blues 1st round pick this year. My biggest fear (especially after the McNabb trade to LA) is that Tim Murray is going to give away future draft picks too easily to acquire new players. He gave LA two 2nd rounders plus McNabb in the Fasching/Deslaurier trade and I think he overpaid significantly. Time will tell.

 

I hope Murray uses these all these hard earned draft picks wisely. The jury is still way out. I don't think you can accurately assess Murray until he has to operate without all the many assets acquired by Darcy Regier. Regier did a lot of the dirty work toward rebuiding and Murray stands to get most of the credit.

 

If this process is done well, the Sabres future over the next 5-10 years looks very promising.

 

He probably did overpay that trade with LA but I'm sure the scouting staff and Murray seen Fasching enough to pull off that trade. I guess when he wants a player he likes he's gonna go for it even if he has to overpay.

[Kristian]

I don't think the playoffs hurt him at all. St. Louis just looks foolish for plugging a goalie into a system he isn't used to playing. His best years on the Sabres were behind mobile defenses that didn't collapse back onto the net but instead tried to push play to the outside. St. Louis doesn't do that. They'll let you in and fall back into a shell around the net trying to block shots and be passive on the puck carrier unless he's below the dots.

 

Miller would fit much better on a team that has a fast offensive minded defense.

 

The Sabres may have tried to push teams to the outside, but once the first forward circled the net and put it back to the point, collapsing around the net was essentially what they were doing.

 

That said, you can't expect Ryan to play to his best behind a new defense, after playing for the same team his entire NHL career.

 

Problem is, that's what they brought him in to do.

[X. Benedict]

It was a no-brainer mandatory trade for the Sabres. The best part was that Miller didn't re-sign with the Blues. I think it is more advantageous to keep the 2nd and 3rd round pick rather than get a late Blues 1st round pick this year. My biggest fear (especially after the McNabb trade to LA) is that Tim Murray is going to give away future draft picks too easily to acquire new players. He gave LA two 2nd rounders plus McNabb in the Fasching/Deslaurier trade and I think he overpaid significantly. Time will tell.

 

I hope Murray uses these all these hard earned draft picks wisely. The jury is still way out. I don't think you can accurately assess Murray until he has to operate without all the many assets acquired by Darcy Regier. Regier did a lot of the dirty work toward rebuiding and Murray stands to get most of the credit.

 

If this process is done well, the Sabres future over the next 5-10 years looks very promising.

 

I wouldn't be too upset about McNabb. If McNabb doesn't make the Kings roster out of camp, and there is a good chance he won't, McNabb will get waived. Buffalo has first claim. So Murray can have him right back if he wants him.

[HopefulFuture]

I'd guess San Jose for Miller.

 

Now that the main components of the prior team have been moved, I must confess, I was no Regier fan but between him and Murray's trade moves I am very impressed with the returns. To myself in any event, there is a hope building for the franchises future.

[dudacek]

It's interesting people have concluded that after 20 games of Miller, St. Louis determined he wasn't good enough and walked away.

That seems out of character for a patient organization, particularly given what they gave up.

 

Perhaps St. Louis signed Elliott because Miller told them what he told Buffalo — he was going to wait until July 1 to see what his options are.

[shrader]

It's interesting people have concluded that after 20 games of Miller, St. Louis determined he wasn't good enough and walked away.

That seems out of character for a patient organization, particularly given what they gave up.

 

Perhaps St. Louis signed Elliott because Miller told them what he told Buffalo — he was going to wait until July 1 to see what his options are.

 

Or they've been planning on bumping up Allen all along and Miller was a one time, go for the Cup move. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

[darksabre]

The Sabres may have tried to push teams to the outside, but once the first forward circled the net and put it back to the point, collapsing around the net was essentially what they were doing.

 

That said, you can't expect Ryan to play to his best behind a new defense, after playing for the same team his entire NHL career.

 

Problem is, that's what they brought him in to do.

 

It's absolutely what they brought him in to do. I said at the time that I thought it was a stupid move and I stand by that.

 

There's a lot of chemistry that needs to be established between a goaltender and the players in front of him. That chemistry never developed in the short time Miller was there and it showed. Dumb move by management.

 

They would have been better off rolling Halak and Elliot one more time. The enemy you know.

[dudacek]

Or they've been planning on bumping up Allen all along and Miller was a one time, go for the Cup move. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

 

Maybe. But if they had that much faith in Allen, why not give him the reins this year?

Maybe that trade was all about dumping Chris Stewart and acquiring Steve Ott.

[darksabre]

Or they've been planning on bumping up Allen all along and Miller was a one time, go for the Cup move. I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

 

And it was an unnecessary move. They would have been fine rolling Halak and Elliot, or Elliot and Allen. All of those guys are part of the system. Plugging Miller in at the deadline was dumb.

[nfreeman]

It was a no-brainer mandatory trade for the Sabres. The best part was that Miller didn't re-sign with the Blues. I think it is more advantageous to keep the 2nd and 3rd round pick rather than get a late Blues 1st round pick this year. My biggest fear (especially after the McNabb trade to LA) is that Tim Murray is going to give away future draft picks too easily to acquire new players. He gave LA two 2nd rounders plus McNabb in the Fasching/Deslaurier trade and I think he overpaid significantly. Time will tell.

 

I hope Murray uses these all these hard earned draft picks wisely. The jury is still way out. I don't think you can accurately assess Murray until he has to operate without all the many assets acquired by Darcy Regier. Regier did a lot of the dirty work toward rebuiding and Murray stands to get most of the credit.

 

If this process is done well, the Sabres future over the next 5-10 years looks very promising.

 

Regarding the bolded part, I think your assumptions (and therefore probably your conclusion) are wrong. Since STL didn't make the semifinals (or "conf finals," for those who are morally weak) or re-sign Miller, the Sabres will get only a 3rd-rounder in 2016 -- not a 2nd-rounder plus a 3rd-rounder. (NB this will change if STL trades Miller's rights before free agency, which is possible.)

 

As for the McNabb-Fasching trade: I agree that time will tell. With so many variables -- including the high likelihood that some of the picks and prospects included in the deal on both sides will wash out, I don't agree with the "significantly overpaid" conclusion. Right now Fasching appears to have the highest upside out of all of the pieces in the deal, while Deslauriers and McNabb are pretty much equivalent assets -- and as XB noted it's fairly likely that McNabb will be back on waivers this Fall -- so it boils down to Fasching for two 2nd-rounders (which are the Kings' 2nd-rounders that they traded for Regehr -- so they will be low 2nd-rounders.)

 

Finally, the real dirty work that DR did was building a terrible team. I'm not giving him any credit for the current state of affairs.

 

It's interesting people have concluded that after 20 games of Miller, St. Louis determined he wasn't good enough and walked away.

That seems out of character for a patient organization, particularly given what they gave up.

 

Perhaps St. Louis signed Elliott because Miller told them what he told Buffalo — he was going to wait until July 1 to see what his options are.

 

It sounds like Miller indicated he was open to re-signing, but only at his price, which was well above what STL was interested in paying.

 

It's absolutely what they brought him in to do. I said at the time that I thought it was a stupid move and I stand by that.

 

There's a lot of chemistry that needs to be established between a goaltender and the players in front of him. That chemistry never developed in the short time Miller was there and it showed. Dumb move by management.

 

They would have been better off rolling Halak and Elliot one more time. The enemy you know.

 

This may be an under-discussed reason why contenders typically don't trade for #1 goalies at the deadline.

[darksabre]

This may be an under-discussed reason why contenders typically don't trade for #1 goalies at the deadline.

 

I don't know why it's not getting enough attention. It just seems obvious to me.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

There's a lot of chemistry that needs to be established between a goaltender and the players in front of him. That chemistry never developed in the short time Miller was there and it showed. Dumb move by management.

 

 

Ummm...... he started 7-1. He had a GAA of 1.5

 

If that ain't chemistry???

 

The problem was they played him those 8 games in 2 weeks, and kept riding him for no reason. All this after Nolan was riding him.

 

 

[X. Benedict]

Ummm...... he started 7-1. He had a GAA of 1.5

 

If that ain't chemistry???

 

The problem was they played him those 8 games in 2 weeks, and kept riding him for no reason. All this after Nolan was riding him.

 

I don't think Hitchcock gets much credit for his handling here either.

[TrueBlueGED]

Ummm...... he started 7-1. He had a GAA of 1.5

 

If that ain't chemistry???

 

The problem was they played him those 8 games in 2 weeks, and kept riding him for no reason. All this after Nolan was riding him.

 

I'd say his original numbers being unsustainably high has more to do with the dropoff than being played too much, or in other words, short term randomness. I also think it's possible he was playing his game at the beginning, and later on was trying to change his game to what Hitchcock wanted him to do, but I didn't exactly watch anywhere near enough of the games to know if this was the case.

[JJFIVEOH]

Miller wasn't ridden. He played the least amount of games in his career since 2005-06.

[darksabre]

 

 

Ummm...... he started 7-1. He had a GAA of 1.5

 

If that ain't chemistry???

 

The problem was they played him those 8 games in 2 weeks, and kept riding him for no reason. All this after Nolan was riding him.

 

Echoing Tbphd those numbers aren't sustainable. I think it's a similar effect to plugging a backup goalie in during the playoffs and having him and the team play really well for no real reason other than adrenaline. You change the situation dramatically and players will play out of character for a short period of time. It's deceptive.

 

I think both Miller and the Blues were riding the wave early and then it broke down. The reality is that Miller and the Blues weren't a good fit.

[JJFIVEOH]

Played too much, system wasn't absolutely perfect for him, he didn't eat his Wheaties, randomness, the team failed him, the coach wanted him to play a half degree more to the left, his pillows weren't fluffed just right.............

 

I've never seen more excuses for a player in my life. There's so much denial in this thread, it outweighs the actual Nile. One of these days people will learn that he really is just average. ;)

 

If Miller can't adjust to a team (like 90% of the goaltenders in the league do) he's not going to have a starting job.

[darksabre]

Played too much, system wasn't absolutely perfect for him, he didn't eat his Wheaties, randomness, the team failed him, the coach wanted him to play a half degree more to the left, his pillows weren't fluffed just right.............

 

I've never seen more excuses for a player in my life. There's so much denial in this thread, it outweighs the actual Nile. One of these days people will learn that he really is just average. ;)

 

If Miller can't adjust to a team (like 90% of the goaltenders in the league do) he's not going to have a starting job.

 

This is nothing but ignorance.

[shrader]

Does anyone have the time to look at the records of every goalie that moved at or around the deadline this year? That could be an interesting one.

[JJFIVEOH]

This is nothing but ignorance.

 

Really? Which part?

[TrueBlueGED]

Played too much, system wasn't absolutely perfect for him, he didn't eat his Wheaties, randomness, the team failed him, the coach wanted him to play a half degree more to the left, his pillows weren't fluffed just right.............

 

I've never seen more excuses for a player in my life. There's so much denial in this thread, it outweighs the actual Nile. One of these days people will learn that he really is just average. ;)

 

If Miller can't adjust to a team (like 90% of the goaltenders in the league do) he's not going to have a starting job.

 

Miller has 604 career starts, with a cumulative sv% of .915. He had 6 playoff games this year with a cumulative sv% of .897. That's a huge difference, and it was caused by something--I fall firmly on the "random variance" side of the argument, but there are other alternatives. We can quibble over what his career numbers mean, but explaining a significant departure from his career numbers isn't an exercise in excuse-making. So either you're just in the mood to take a pot-shot at MIller, or you misunderstood the conversation.

 

Secondly, nobody has said Miller can't adjust to a new team--we're saying that being asked to significantly change the way you play at the trade deadline doesn't exactly make for a seamless transition.

[darksabre]

 

 

Really? Which part?

 

All of it. I suppose I could try to explain goaltending and team dynamics to you but I lack the time and you lack the aptitude.

 

Continue to expound on something you don't understand. It's entertaining.

[JJFIVEOH]

Miller has 604 career starts, with a cumulative sv% of .915. He had 6 playoff games this year with a cumulative sv% of .897. That's a huge difference, and it was caused by something--I fall firmly on the "random variance" side of the argument, but there are other alternatives. We can quibble over what his career numbers mean, but explaining a significant departure from his career numbers isn't an exercise in excuse-making. So either you're just in the mood to take a pot-shot at MIller, or you misunderstood the conversation.

 

Secondly, nobody has said Miller can't adjust to a new team--we're saying that being asked to significantly change the way you play at the trade deadline doesn't exactly make for a seamless transition.

 

I'm not in the mood to take pot shots at Miller. I'm presenting legitimate arguments with facts to back it up. The problem is that apparently it's still taboo to say anything remotely negative about Ryan Miller without somebody sending out the bat signal for all the Miller apologists. For some reason fans think he's the only one exempt from criticism. I'm sorry you'll only accept a one-sided discussion.

 

For years now all we've heard are excuses for Miller with the small exception of the lead up to the Olympics. When in reality the Sabres 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th string goaltenders had a better combined save percentage than Miller did after his trade. Aside from Enroth, none of them had time to adjust to a "system". And they pllayed behind the worst team in the league. All these excuses for Miller but not one on the fan club is willing to admit that maybe he's just average. Maybe the pre-Olympic hot streak Miller had was "random".

[LastPommerFan]

I'm not in the mood to take pot shots at Miller. I'm presenting legitimate arguments with facts to back it up. The problem is that apparently it's still taboo to say anything remotely negative about Ryan Miller without somebody sending out the bat signal for all the Miller apologists. For some reason fans think he's the only one exempt from criticism. I'm sorry you'll only accept a one-sided discussion.

 

For years now all we've heard are excuses for Miller with the small exception of the lead up to the Olympics. When in reality the Sabres 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th string goaltenders had a better combined save percentage than Miller did after his trade. Aside from Enroth, none of them had time to adjust to a "system". And they pllayed behind the worst team in the league. All these excuses for Miller but not one on the fan club is willing to admit that maybe he's just average. Maybe the pre-Olympic hot streak Miller had was "random".

 

Not all the miller apologists have been involved. :ph34r:

[qwksndmonster]

I'm not in the mood to take pot shots at Miller. I'm presenting legitimate arguments with facts to back it up. The problem is that apparently it's still taboo to say anything remotely negative about Ryan Miller without somebody sending out the bat signal for all the Miller apologists. For some reason fans think he's the only one exempt from criticism. I'm sorry you'll only accept a one-sided discussion.

Referring to actual analysis of Ryan Miller as being spouted by "Miller apologists" suggests that the bolded is false. And if you actually added anything to the discussion (other than "he's average") maybe it wouldn't be so one sided?