Enroth as a number 1

[JJFIVEOH]

Nope, because historical stats say as much despite what YOU might think. Again, I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying the Miller bar has been set pretty high.

 

Which historical facts?

[Claude_Verret]

 

 

Which historical facts?

 

I'm not beating this dead horse anymore with you guys. If you can't accept that Miller has been an above average goalie for a long period of time then the discussion is going to continue to go in circles. We will all begin to find out soon where the Sabres are left in goal.

[Eleven]

I would have liked to see him start today. Purely for Sabre fan reasons; Sweden did the right thing.

 

EDIT: Maybe not the right thing. This shouldn't be as close as it is--Lundqvist has let in three!

Edited February 15, 2014 by Eleven

[Ross Rhea]

Nope, because historical stats say as much despite what YOU might think. Again, I'm not saying he can't, I'm saying the Miller bar has been set pretty high.

 

but but but according to you JE haters JE doesn't have enough of a sample size yet, right! That's what you all have been saying. Hmmm, hypocritical much.

[JJFIVEOH]

I'm not beating this dead horse anymore with you guys. If you can't accept that Miller has been an above average goalie for a long period of time then the discussion is going to continue to go in circles. We will all begin to find out soon where the Sabres are left in goal.

 

We were referencing the first 73 games of each goaltenders' career. I don't think we've addressed any historical facts in that regard.

 

I've been saying Miller is an average-above average goaltender since day one. I've already mentioned it three times this week. Do I need to mention it again?

[Eleven]

Is anyone here an Enroth hater? Can you please identify yourselves?

[Claude_Verret]

Is anyone here an Enroth hater? Can you please identify yourselves?

 

That would include everyone who doesn't have an irrational loathing of Ryan Miller apparently.

[Eleven]

That would include everyone who doesn't have an irrational loathing of Ryan Miller apparently.

 

Are you an Enroth hater, Claude?

[Claude_Verret]

We were referencing the first 73 games of each goaltenders' career. I don't think we've addressed any historical facts in that regard.

 

I've been saying Miller is an average-above average goaltender since day one. I've already mentioned it three times this week. Do I need to mention it again?

 

first 73 game show Miller and Enroth approx. equal and at best average I assume we would all agree.

 

Since his first 73 Miller has been above average.

 

Therefore for Enroth to meet the Miller bar he would have to play at an above average level for a long period of time.

 

Meeting the odds would be to continue to play at an NHL average.

 

Beating the odds would be playing above average, i.e the Miller standard.

 

What I don't really get is that during the Miller era the Sabres have had many issues. Goaltending has never been even close to being among the top 3. Be careful what you wish for.

 

Are you an Enroth hater, Claude?

 

Nope I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with a full time load.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Claude_Verret

[JJFIVEOH]

Is anyone here an Miller hater? Can you please identify yourselves?

 

Funny how that works, isn't it?

[Eleven]

I don't know. I sensed a lot of hatred in that last post. Teeming with emotion. Maybe you should go out for a walk or something.

 

first 73 game show Miller and Enroth approx. equal and at best average I assume we would all agree.

 

Since his first 73 Miller has been above average.

 

Therefore for Enroth to meet the Miller bar he would have to play at an above average level for a long period of time.

 

Meeting the odds would be to continue to play at an NHL average.

 

Beating the odds would be playing above average, i.e the Miller standard.

 

What I don't really get is that during the Miller era the Sabres have had many issues. Goaltending has never been even close to being among the top 3. Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

 

Nope I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with a full time load.

 

I don't know. I sensed a lot of hatred in that last post. Teeming with emotion. Maybe you should go out for a walk or something.

[JJFIVEOH]

first 73 game show Miller and Enroth approx. equal and at best average I assume we would all agree.

 

Since his first 73 Miller has been above average.

 

Therefore for Enroth to meet the Miller bar he would have to play at an above average level for a long period of time.

 

Meeting the odds would be to continue to play at an NHL average.

 

Beating the odds would be playing above average, i.e the Miller standard.

 

What I don't really get is that during the Miller era the Sabres have had many issues. Goaltending has never been even close to being among the top 3. Be careful what you wish for.

 

 

 

Nope I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with a full time load.

 

Would having a save percentage only .003 lower, over the last three years combined, while riding the bench for weeks at a time and playing mostly away games........ be considered 'meeting the bar'?

 

I'm with you, I'm looking forward to seeing him have a full workload for a season.

 

I don't know. I sensed a lot of hatred in that last post. Teeming with emotion. Maybe you should go out for a walk or something.

 

 

None at all my friend. Simply noting the double standard. :flirt:

Edited February 15, 2014 by JJFIVEOH

[Eleven]

 

None at all my friend. Simply noting the double standard. :flirt:

 

I meant CV's post--but I don't think that people hate Ryan Miller, either.

[JJFIVEOH]

Why is it when there are disgareements in these threads that people take them personally and label them as 'tense', or 'uncomfortable', or 'combative'? For the most part I think the people that love to debate Miller and Enroth pretty much keep the topic to their designated threads, yet people still pop in and proclaim their wish that they would end. Nobody is forcing anybody to partake. The title of the threads clearly state what the topic may be about. With the exception of the rare instances of personal attacks, I think these threads are fairly entertaining and informative. I know the few people on here that I no longer take seriously, and I do my part to avoid them. Other than that, I don't see how these two threads are any different. There's not much to talk about, why squelch what little discussion is going on? :thumbsup:

 

By the way, that post wasn't directed at anybody in particular. It was simply a generalized statement based on the few times that ending the thread has been mentioned, along with comfort levels and hatred of players. It can be found all throughout these two threads not just the last several posts.

[LGR4GM]

I am sick of debating it. Miller is better than Enroth. Until Enroth becomes a starter we won't know how good or bad he can be. That is pretty much the entire debate. We should find out either after March 5 or next season. All I know right now is that TM has suggested he would like another really good gt prospect in the pipeline which tells me he too isn't sure of Enroth. Again Enroth could be a perfectly fine NHL starter, but we don't know yet.

[bunomatic]

I am sick of debating it. Miller is better than Enroth. Until Enroth becomes a starter we won't know how good or bad he can be. That is pretty much the entire debate. We should find out either after March 5 or next season. All I know right now is that TM has suggested he would like another really good gt prospect in the pipeline which tells me he too isn't sure of Enroth. Again Enroth could be a perfectly fine NHL starter, but we don't know yet.

 

Thats a good post. It sums it up nicely and should end the debate for now but it won't.

[LGR4GM]

Were you now, good for you!

 

See the problem with all the RM fan boys is not being able to cope with the fact he is about to be gone. The coping process has now gone to unrealistic, unproven fabricated made up Enroth bashing about his size. Once that is beaten to death, what will be the next Enroth bashing topic? Even strength goals against? PP goals against? more bad rebound control? Will you use the "crap defense infront of him" excuse like you use for RM? or no it's all Enroths fault? Which will it be? The guy needs to be given the opportunity to actually see if he do the job. Until the nobody knows if he will succeed or fail.

ignorance is bliss

and yet has still been equal to Miller stat wise the past 3 years. hmmm.... maybe ted needs to watch film of ryan the past 3 years.

so now let's bring an excuse into the mix. lame!

OMG, you guys whining and jonseing for RM to play sound pathetic and desperate. It's comical, almost like someone took away your pacifier. Wow!

I will sum up your anti-miller argument with the following video clip:

[JJFIVEOH]

If you guys are so sick of hearing about it, why do you come back?

 

We've got many prospects in juniors and Rochester, that doesn't stop anybody from discussing how good they might become since they haven't had the opportunity to prove it. Don't like a conversation, don't get involved.

Edited February 15, 2014 by JJFIVEOH

[Eleven]

In my case, to mention that I would have liked to see him play today. And because, once in a while, a good Billy Madison clip hits the spot.

Edited February 15, 2014 by Eleven

[Claude_Verret]

I don't know. I sensed a lot of hatred in that last post. Teeming with emotion. Maybe you should go out for a walk or something.

 

 

 

I don't know. I sensed a lot of hatred in that last post. Teeming with emotion. Maybe you should go out for a walk or something.

 

Your hate meter needs to be recalibrated.

[Ross Rhea]

I will sum up your anti-miller argument with the following video clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

 

Oh yay, another immature video insult.

[Robviously]

If you need to misread what I'm saying to make a point, knock yourself out. You're going into politics, right?

 

It's not irrelevant, but it's a MUCH smaller factor than a bunch of other factors. If you only knew one thing about a goalie and it was his height, would you know anything? Nope.

 

He's 5'10". That's short for an NHL goalie, so that's all anyone talks about. Great. Now look at a ruler and consider what 2 inches actually looks like in real life. If, from the bottom of his foot to the top of his head, we stretched Enroth by 2 inches, is he a significantly different goalie? I doubt it.

 

His stature is a hindrance but it will ultimately come down to everything else.

So a goalie's height isn't irrelevant, it just tells you absolutely nothing about the goaltender? Yes, I'm clearly twisting your point.

 

How would you define a "significantly different goalie"? All else equal, 2 inches of height could be the difference in a couple of bounces being stopped or going into the net on a deflection...and that could be the difference between a below average starter and an average starter. Enroth being 6'2" likely wouldn't turn him into a stud tender, but it may turn him into a starter from a backup. Just like being slightly quicker or better at reading the play could make that difference too. If he fails, it's all likely to have mattered some.

Yes, if the ***only thing*** you know about a goalie is his height, I'm sorry to say you have basically nothing to evaluate. It's not that important compared to everything else. Especially with 5'10" since it isn't that far outside the norm. Hasek and Thomas are 5'11".

 

I keep bringing up "if he was 2" taller" because if he's 6' I'm pretty sure no one would be making the "he's too short to play in the NHL" comments. It's 2 inches, but if his height started with a "6", he'd be past the magical cutoff.

 

As for "what if he was 6'2"?", who knows? The Sabres already have some tall guys toiling away in the minors. The argument was that 5'10" is too short, so that's what I'm addressing.

 

I've also said (roughly 800 times) that his height is a hindrance (even bolded it above since you apparently forgot or didn't read that far) and that ideally he'd be taller. That is not incompatible with saying he could be OK at the height he is because I think other traits are much more important.

[Hoss]

In an interview with WGR, Tim Murray was talking about the future in net for the Sabres. He was talking about Hackett/Lieuwen and said "they both have good size. I like bigger goalies."

[Weave]

In an interview with WGR, Tim Murray was talking about the future in net for the Sabres. He was talking about Hackett/Lieuwen and said "they both have good size. I like bigger goalies."

 

Is that Enroth's hopes deflating that I hear?

[Robviously]

In an interview with WGR, Tim Murray was talking about the future in net for the Sabres. He was talking about Hackett/Lieuwen and said "they both have good size. I like bigger goalies."

Just to blow everyone's mind if you've been following this thread, I like "Concept of Big Goalie" too. Like I was really hoping we hit the jackpot with Connor Knapp. Lieuwen and Hackett too. I was talking about the Sabres trading for Magnus Hellberg from Nashville last year (I guess they still could since he's not having a spectacular year in the AHL this year).

 

But then when I'm watching the games and I never really think about how big the goalies are. I notice rebounds, reflexes, lateral movements, positioning, vision -- basically everything else.