GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Carolina at Buffalo 1-23-14 at 7:00 PM EST

[Hoss]

 

 

The deal only makes sense if Compher becomes a better NHL player than Sekera is now. That is possible but not likely.

 

That was quietly one of Darcy's worst moves.

 

Or if Compher plays any role in helping us win. I don't think trades are as much about who gets the better player than it is about who gets the better piece that fits their franchise. We have plenty of D and not enough forwards. If Compher isn't as good a player, but turns out to be at least a good third liner then we did fine.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Tankalicious

[Johnny DangerFace]

 

 

The deal only makes sense if Compher becomes a better NHL player than Sekera is now. That is possible but not likely.

 

That was quietly one of Darcy's worst moves.

 

Hey can I borrow your time machine???

 

 

I liked the trade then and I still do. You seriously look at this rebuild and think we need that defenseman instead of a scoring prospect....really? Nvm the fact we are stacked with defenseman and lack scoring prospects....

Edited January 24, 2014 by Numark

[carpandean]

Not that it matters but McBain has 9pts. Also we didn't trade Sekera for McBain, we traded Sekera for Compher and got McBain as part of the deal. The key to that deal was the 2nd round pick and specifically Compher. Compher has 16pts in 19gp at U.Mich

 

Yeah, McBain was a throw-in project. Some unrealized potential that, were it to be realized, would be nice, but unexpected.

 

 

The deal only makes sense if Compher becomes a better NHL player than Sekera is now. That is possible but not likely.

 

That was quietly one of Darcy's worst moves.

 

Actually, it was trading from a position of perceived strength for a position that lacked depth. It should be judged on the net effect of moving Sekera out of the defensive depth chart and Compher into the offensive one. If the trade made the team better (in the long run), then it doesn't matter so much if he "won" it or not. In fact, that was one of the biggest complaints about Darcy; he never seemed to make deals that would make the team better, even if he technically didn't "win" them.

 

Edit: Tankalicious beat me to it.

Edited January 24, 2014 by carpandean

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

The canes announcers pronounce it sak-err-a

[nfreeman]

Or if Compher plays any role in helping us win. I don't think trades are as much about who gets the better player than it is about who gets the better piece that fits their franchise. We have plenty of D and not enough forwards. If Compher isn't as good a player, but turns out to be at least a good third liner then we did fine.

Hey can I borrow your time machine???

 

 

I liked the trade then and I still do. You seriously look at this rebuild and think we need that defenseman instead of a scoring prospect....really? Nvm the fact we are stacked with defenseman and lack scoring prospects....

Actually, it was trading from a position of perceived strength for a position that lacked depth. It should be judged on the net effect of moving Sekera out of the defensive depth chart and Compher into the offensive one. If the trade made the team better (in the long run), then it doesn't matter so much if he "won" it or not. In fact, that was one of the biggest complaints about Darcy; he never seemed to make deals that would make the team better, even if he technically didn't "win" them.

 

Edit: Tankalicious beat me to it.

 

If the Sabres' D is so strong, why are guys like Sulzer, McBain and (to a lesser extent) Tallinder in the top 6?

 

The Sabres don't need another 3rd-line forward. They need real top-6 guys. If Compher becomes a 20-goal guy, it was a good trade, and worth the built-in discount the Sabres had to take by trading a guy who is good right now for a guy who might be good in 3-4 years or so.

 

Trading Sekera was actually un-Darcy-like in that he gave up on one of his young guys too soon. It was another panic move in a final year of his tenure that was full of them.

[dudacek]

SACK-er-uh is a better player than Seh-CARE-uh ever was.

[Hoss]

 

 

 

 

If the Sabres' D is so strong, why are guys like Sulzer, McBain and (to a lesser extent) Tallinder in the top 6?

 

The Sabres don't need another 3rd-line forward. They need real top-6 guys. If Compher becomes a 20-goal guy, it was a good trade, and worth the built-in discount the Sabres had to take by trading a guy who is good right now for a guy who might be good in 3-4 years or so.

 

Trading Sekera was actually un-Darcy-like in that he gave up on one of his young guys too soon. It was another panic move in a final year of his tenure that was full of them.

 

What is happening right now is irrelevant. What happens in a few years is what matters. The reason those guys are in our top six right now is because our prospects either aren't ready or it makes no sense to have them up yet.

 

Who knows what we'll need in a few years as far as forwards go. If we find a solid top six before then all we need him to be is a third liner. I'm talking a real third liner who contributes legitimate secondary scoring.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Tankalicious

[nfreeman]

What is happening right now is irrelevant. What happens in a few years is what matters. The reason those guys are in our top six right now is because our prospects either aren't ready or it makes no sense to have them up yet.

 

OK, but my point is that Compher is just a prospect and Sekera is a #1 NHL defenseman (on the Canes -- but a top-3 NHL defenseman pretty much anywhere). Not to mention Sekera is on a very friendly contract.

 

The return should've been substantially better for Sekera.

[Hoss]

Saying he's a top three anywhere is a stretch. He was never that here, and may not be in many other situations. On a good defensive team, he isn't.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Tankalicious

[Claude_Verret]

Sekera was always a popular whipping boy and undervalued here IMO. I told all my friends down here that the Canes got a solid top 4 guy when that trade was made, but they didn't believe me. They were just happy to have McBain gone and have a warm body in his place.

[Hoss]

I always liked Sekera, but I'm nowhere near ready to judge that trade.

[Weave]

The deal only makes sense if Compher becomes a better NHL player than Sekera is now. That is possible but not likely.

 

That was quietly one of Darcy's worst moves.

 

Or the deal was part of the effort to make this team worse. #Tanking

[nfreeman]

Saying he's a top three anywhere is a stretch. He was never that here, and may not be in many other situations. On a good defensive team, he isn't.

 

He's the top defenseman on the team that is #14 in the NHL in fewest GA. He plays over 23.5 min per game. He's #18 in the NHL in scoring among defensemen and is a great skater.

 

I agree that he didn't set the world on fire in Buffalo, but he was a decent-to-good player in a bad situation. He's stepped up his game in a new situation.

 

I'm not saying he's a star. But he's become a very good NHL player on a very good NHL contract.

[Johnny DangerFace]

 

 

 

 

If the Sabres' D is so strong, why are guys like Sulzer, McBain and (to a lesser extent) Tallinder in the top 6?

 

Ristolainen - AHL

Zadorov - OHL

McCabe - NCAA

psysk - rookie

 

 

That's why. No one is saying their d is strong now, but we are going through a rebuild. Young D is the only thing we have a surplus of. Scoring talent is a need. We traded a young defenseman for scoring potential. Pysyk, Myers, ristolainen, zadorov, McCabe, and Erhoff are worth more than sekera

Edited January 24, 2014 by Numark

[Derrico]

Ristolainen - AHL

Zadorov - OHL

McCabe - NCAA

psysk - rookie

 

 

That's why. No one is saying their d is strong now, but we are going through a rebuild. Young D is the only thing we have a surplus of. Scoring talent is a need. We traded a young defenseman for scoring potential. Pysyk, Myers, ristolainen, zadorov, McCabe, and Erhoff are worth more than sekera

 

I really do love the D potential that we have coming through the system. Also I would make that trade again because from what I've read Compher should be a good player. But let's just not completely write these guys names in pen as top end Dmen yet.

 

It sounds silly now but I remember when we were 'loaded' on D a few years ago with the likes of Sekera, Butler, Brennan, Schiestel, Persson and Gragnani. How many other than Sekera and to a lesser extent Butler panned out? Now IMO Risto and Zadorov have shown real promise and were picked in the top 15 within a deep draft so they should have obvious more potential then the aformentioned player. Just saying that nfreeman's point may be that let's not start trading away top 4 Dmen on this team until we know what we have.

[LGR4GM]

 

 

OK, but my point is that Compher is just a prospect and Sekera is a #1 NHL defenseman (on the Canes -- but a top-3 NHL defenseman pretty much anywhere). Not to mention Sekera is on a very friendly contract.

 

The return should've been substantially better for Sekera.

I agree Sekera is a top 4 defender. I think Darcy was in the trade for hard working guys mode and Compher was someone Devine and company targeted. So when they had the opportunity to trade for him they did. I don't like or dislike the trade. It was a wash. Sekera is having a career year and I am happy for him. Compher is young but showing good signs so we shall see. Darcy I agree made a panicky trade but it's long term payoff is still unknown.

[Johnny DangerFace]

 

 

I really do love the D potential that we have coming through the system. Also I would make that trade again because from what I've read Compher should be a good player. But let's just not completely write these guys names in pen as top end Dmen yet.

 

It sounds silly now but I remember when we were 'loaded' on D a few years ago with the likes of Sekera, Butler, Brennan, Schiestel, Persson and Gragnani. How many other than Sekera and to a lesser extent Butler panned out? Now IMO Risto and Zadorov have shown real promise and were picked in the top 15 within a deep draft so they should have obvious more potential then the aformentioned player. Just saying that nfreeman's point may be that let's not start trading away top 4 Dmen on this team until we know what we have.

 

I mean I kind of get it. But those players aren't close to this core. None of them were drafted higher than pysyk. I just think scoring is what we need badly, not d. We traded a defenseman for a scoring prospect.

 

 

What's annoying is people here want us to trade for young players, but don't grasp the concept we have to give up talent as well. If we trade away a player , we are going to have a three year old thread still whining about the potential of a player we gave up. If we traded away pysyk for o'reilly, then we are going to have a pysyk thread that gets updated every time he gets a point for all eternity

 

 

 

There is such thing as a good trade for both teams.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Numark

[IKnowPhysics]

I strongly expect that Compher's going to be better than Sekera.

 

Compher's got 16 points in 19 games for the Wolverines as a freshman, which, according to NHL equivalency whosywhatsits, works out to 28 points on an NHL season as an 18 year old. Give him about four years, and you should get a strong second liner that plays a great two-way game with high effort.

 

Compare that to the opportunity cost of letting Sekera go for McBain or any of Sekera's future replacements (Pysyk, Risto, Zadorov, McCabe, ...), and it'a win. Especially considering our organizational depth at wing.

Edited January 24, 2014 by IKnowPhysics

[nfreeman]

I strongly expect that Compher's going to be better than Sekera.

 

Compher's got 16 points in 19 games for the Wolverines as a freshman, which, according to NHL equivalency whosywhatsits, works out to 28 points on an NHL season as an 18 year old. Give him about four years, and you should get a strong second liner that plays a great two-way game with high effort.

 

Compare that to the opportunity cost of letting Sekera go for McBain or any of Sekera's future replacements (Pysyk, Risto, Zadorov, McCabe, ...), and it'a win. Especially considering our organizational depth at wing.

 

Well, as I said, if Compher turns out to be a good scoring forward, it was a good trade. But the odds don't favor that outcome.

 

BTW, Kevin Porter had the following numbers at Michigan:

 

Freshman -- 24 pts in 39 games

Sophomore -- 38 pts in 39 games

Junior -- 58 pts in 41 games

Senior -- 63 pts in 43 games

[sicknfla]

If we don't draft two dmen then we don't make the Sekera deal. Kind of hard to put that on DR because i don't think he expected Zadarov to be there at 16. When he was he found himself with a need to get another forward in the system. If he goes 1 forward and 1 dman in round 1 i think Sekera is still here.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Sekera plays like cream cheese put in the microwave for 45 seconds come playoff time.....

[carpandean]

SACK-er-uh is a better player than Seh-CARE-uh ever was.

 

If I remember correctly, a native Slovakian friend of mine said it would be pronounced SEK-er-uh (or it might have been SEK-er-ah) back home. Of course, she also said that Chara would be HAR-ah (but with flem in your throat on the first H.)

[LGR4GM]

Well, as I said, if Compher turns out to be a good scoring forward, it was a good trade. But the odds don't favor that outcome.

 

BTW, Kevin Porter had the following numbers at Michigan:

 

Freshman -- 24 pts in 39 games

Sophomore -- 38 pts in 39 games

Junior -- 58 pts in 41 games

Senior -- 63 pts in 43 games

I can only do this for the 1 year obviously but if Compher continues his current ppg pace of 0.833 then he would finish a 39game season with 32.5pts. In a 43 game season he would have 35.8pts.

 

I can also compare the last year they spent on the USDP U-18 team.

Porter - 5g, 21a, 26pts

Compher - 18g, 32a, 50pts

 

So two players coming through the same system and playing at the same college. Looks as though Compher will be better than Porter. Of course that could change easily but just something to take a look at.

[Assquatch]

If I remember correctly, a native Slovakian friend of mine said it would be pronounced SEK-er-uh (or it might have been SEK-er-ah) back home. Of course, she also said that Chara would be HAR-ah (but with flem in your throat on the first H.)

 

Relevant portion: 1:25 - 2:05

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWemjc9Ux5g

Edited January 24, 2014 by Assquatch

[IKnowPhysics]

BTW, Kevin Porter had the following numbers at Michigan:

I can also compare the last year they spent on the USDP U-18 team.

 

Fair counter point, and fair rebuttal. If I trust my scouts, Kevin Porter was a 4th round pick, and JT Compher was pegged by our guys as a late 1st rounder.