"Increasingly Substantiated BS" rumor thread- 2014 Edition

[LGR4GM]

It will be around 8-9 percent depending on if we can get him for a between 6-7 mil. It is a very good deal. It is a deal that the Rangers would make if they didnt already have 33 percent of their cap invested in three players.

 

 

 

 

Yes he is easily worth that small pay increase. Especially on a team with millions of cap space to play with for the next 3-4 years.

But you would signing him for longer than 3-4years. What Happens when Ristolainen and Zadorov need contracts? What happens if Rienhart or Bennett are really good and come off entry level deals? What about if we luck into McDavid or Eichel? That is my question.

[Hoss]

 

 

 

No they cant. No player on earth takes one year deals in free agency. Unless you are Jagr.

 

One year deals happen every offseason. With vets that can't get anymore.

[LGR4GM]

and Stamkos was an RFA when he signed his deal. Like Foligno said, put those guys on the open market today and see what they get.

Stamkos on the open market gets max years and max dollars from at least 10-15 teams if not more.

 

One year deals happen every offseason. With vets that can't get anymore.

Callahan isn't a vet who can't get longer than a 1yr deal.

[Hoss]

Callahan isn't a vet who can't get longer than a 1yr deal.

 

Certainly not. Never said he is.

[FolignosJock]

and Stamkos was an RFA when he signed his deal. Like Foligno said, put those guys on the open market today and see what they get.

 

They would get 12 million. It isnt rocket science. They get the max the agent doesnt do anything. He says we want the max, if you arent giving it to us then the other guy will.

 

 

It truly does not matter if we slightly overpay 1-2% of our cap for the next 2-3 years on callahan. (even though I think he deserves it). The deal will be either at market value or slightly less than market value in 3 years. These same people I am arguing were probably hating the vanek deal. But that deal in the last 2-3 years has been slightly less than market value. It works out in the long run because if you are overpaying by 1 million a year for the first three years you are underpaying by 1.5 million the last 4 years of the deal.

 

But you would signing him for longer than 3-4years. What Happens when Ristolainen and Zadorov need contracts? What happens if Rienhart or Bennett are really good and come off entry level deals? What about if we luck into McDavid or Eichel? That is my question.

 

 

We dont need to sign those guys for 3 more years. Four or five for the rookies/undrafteds you are talking about. in 3-4 years this deal is worth it and we will have that cap space to sign those RFAs very easily. There really isnt an issue unless you think that girgensons is going to turn into a 9 million dollar player. If that does happen which we all hope and pray that it does you can move callahan because he will have a cap friendly contract by that time or you could even retain some salary to make it even more attractive. It isnt that hard. This deal makes sense for us and we are in the perfect position to get it done.

 

One year deals happen every offseason. With vets that can't get anymore.

 

 

Ok? So just like Jagr.... or Tim Thomas who needs to prove himself and hasnt. In the context that we are talking these guys dont sign one year deals. You know what I meant and you know that it doesnt happen.

[Patty16]

and Stamkos was an RFA when he signed his deal. Like Foligno said, put those guys on the open market today and see what they get.

 

Yes he didn't want to leave Tampa and didnt have to sign for 5 years. He took a slight discount to stay. The point remains the RC is not a $6M-$7M player for 6 or 7 years. He won't play that long and his contract stays on the books.

[FolignosJock]

Yes he didn't want to leave Tampa and didnt have to sign for 5 years. He took a slight discount to stay. The point remains the RC is not a $6M-$7M player for 6 or 7 years. He won't play that long and his contract stays on the books.

 

he is 28...... you dont think he is going to play til he is 35?

[Patty16]

he is 28...... you dont think he is going to play til he is 35?

 

He turns 29 Next month, and grinders like him, who already have issues with injuries, and block a ton of shots (already broken his hand x2 and his leg), arent worth big money long term deals. His ice time is already going down at age 28.

[FolignosJock]

He turns 29 Next month, and grinders like him, who already have issues with injuries, and block a ton of shots (already broken his hand x2 and his leg), arent worth big money long term deals. His ice time is already going down at age 28.

 

 

His ice time is down because of the injuries this year.... his production numbers are up though.... Also his TOI jumped up 30 seconds last year. It is down 3 minutes this year. He is also in a system that isnt really suited for him. Yet the TN system is almost made for him to play in.

 

 

He played at a 30 goal a year pace the previous two years. He is certainly worth this money.

Edited January 30, 2014 by FolignosJock

[LGR4GM]

His ice time is down because of the injuries this year.... his production numbers are up though.... Also his TOI jumped up 30 seconds last year. It is down 3 minutes this year. He is also in a system that isnt really suited for him. Yet the TN system is almost made for him to play in.

 

 

He played at a 30 goal a year pace the previous two years. He is certainly worth this money.

Did he get to 30 goals? No. DR paid for "Goals they should have had if they played more". Tim Murray can not afford too.

[Patty16]

Any way you want to cut it, whether its the system, injuries, or declining skills, his role has been diminished this year and they arent willing to break the bank for him.

 

Our team needs high end talent desperately. Leadership and grinders are far more easy to find. I wouldn't want to sign RC if it would in any way impact a long term deal for a talented scorer. We have enough grinders who can't score.

[FolignosJock]

Did he get to 30 goals? No. DR paid for "Goals they should have had if they played more". Tim Murray can not afford too.

 

He got to 29 and 16 in a lockout shortened season. So yes he kind of did.

 

Any way you want to cut it, whether its the system, injuries, or declining skills, his role has been diminished this year and they arent willing to break the bank for him.

 

Our team needs high end talent desperately. Leadership and grinders are far more easy to find. I wouldn't want to sign RC if it would in any way impact a long term deal for a talented scorer. We have enough grinders who can't score.

 

 

Yes they are willing to! They want to resign him. They would give him that deal. They just cant!

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/rangers/post/_/id/1190/could-the-rangers-trade-ryan-callahan

[LGR4GM]

He got to 29 and 16 in a lockout shortened season. So yes he kind of did.

I have a question. Is 29, 30? No So he didn't. His GPG average may indicate over a full 82 games he would. Matter of fact I know it does. However, he hasn't done it yet. I like RC. I would love him as a Sabre. But if I was TM and I had the chance to offer him a deal, 5years 25million would be my offer. That is what he is worth, maybe a shade above that but 7yrs 7mil is just to much for a Winger. We overpaid wingers for a decade... I have seen enough of that show.

[FolignosJock]

Any way you want to cut it, whether its the system, injuries, or declining skills, his role has been diminished this year and they arent willing to break the bank for him.

 

Our team needs high end talent desperately. Leadership and grinders are far more easy to find. I wouldn't want to sign RC if it would in any way impact a long term deal for a talented scorer. We have enough grinders who can't score.

 

 

Find me a two way forward that is a Captain that also scores at a 25-30 goal a year pace.... Who will play all the tough minutes and will lead a young club close to his hometown.....

 

I have a question. Is 29, 30? No So he didn't. His GPG average may indicate over a full 82 games he would. Matter of fact I know it does. However, he hasn't done it yet. I like RC. I would love him as a Sabre. But if I was TM and I had the chance to offer him a deal, 5years 25million would be my offer. That is what he is worth, maybe a shade above that but 7yrs 7mil is just to much for a Winger. We overpaid wingers for a decade... I have seen enough of that show.

 

 

is 29 30 ??? Are you effing serious with that? So he maintained that for two straight years. He didnt have anymore games to play last year. It will be between 6-7 million dollars. It is market value it isnt overpaying. Read any of the articles out there about him right now. They know he is going to get that money.

[nfreeman]

So You would rather do exactly what Darcy did which is pay wingers more money than any of your centers and then be a crappy team for 7 years because you have crappy centers? If Callahan was a center I might be on board but until he becomes one I am not at that price. He would be the highest paid guy on the team and he isn't worth it.

 

You are certainly right that DR didn't deliver quality centers. But a big part of his problem was giving out "upper middle class" contracts (i.e. $4MM or thereabouts) to a bunch of mediocrities like Stafford, Leino and Hecht who were really $1MM guys (I also continue to believe that Pommer was overpaid by $2MM or so per year, but at least he was a good player). When you throw away $3MM per year per mediocrity, pretty soon you've wasted $8MM to $10MM per year in cap/budget space on guys who don't add any value.

 

I agree that they need 2 more good centers. But they also need 3 or 4 wingers (depending on where Ennis plays and how you feel about him) for their top 2 lines. I'd rather overpay Callahan by $2MM or so because I am very comfortable that he will add a lot of value to the top 6 and to the team generally. And giving that money to Callahan doesn't preclude them from paying a good center should one become available.

 

 

But you would signing him for longer than 3-4years. What Happens when Ristolainen and Zadorov need contracts? What happens if Rienhart or Bennett are really good and come off entry level deals? What about if we luck into McDavid or Eichel? That is my question.

 

The extra $2MM or so that Callahan would be "overpaid" by can easily be found by sacrificing a lesser player.

Edited January 30, 2014 by nfreeman

[FolignosJock]

You are certainly right that DR didn't deliver quality centers. But a big part of his problem was giving out "upper middle class" contracts (i.e. $4MM or thereabouts) to a bunch of mediocrities like Stafford, Leino and Hecht who were really $1MM guys (I also continue to believe that Pommer was overpaid by $2MM or so per year, but at least he was a good player). When you throw away $3MM per year per mediocrity, pretty soon you've wasted $8MM to $10MM per year in cap/budget space on guys who don't add any value.

 

I agree that they need 2 more good centers. But they also need 3 or 4 wingers (depending on where Ennis plays and how you feel about him) for their top 2 lines. I'd rather overpay Callahan by $2MM or so because I am very comfortable that he will add a lot of value to the top 6 and to the team generally. And giving that money to Callahan doesn't preclude them from paying a good center should one become available.

 

 

We have 4 guys in the system and on the team that are supposed to be top six centers. Guys that are locked up or RFAs in the next 2-5 years. This contract wouldnt interfere with those guys at all.

Edited January 30, 2014 by FolignosJock

[MattPie]

No they cant. No player on earth takes one year deals in free agency. Unless you are Jagr.

 

You really think John Scott doesn't take a 1yr/$5M deal if the Sabres are trying to hit the floor?

[FolignosJock]

You really think John Scott doesn't take a 1yr/$5M deal if the Sabres are trying to hit the floor?

 

 

Dude come on. I am dealing with reality here.

[LGR4GM]

Find me a two way forward that is a Captain that also scores at a 25-30 goal a year pace.... Who will play all the tough minutes and will lead a young club close to his hometown.....

 

 

 

 

is 29 30 ??? Are you effing serious with that? So he maintained that for two straight years. He didnt have anymore games to play last year. It will be between 6-7 million dollars. It is market value it isnt overpaying. Read any of the articles out there about him right now. They know he is going to get that money.

Yes it matters. Yes I am serious. I am not paying a 28yr old for the potential to get 30. Who were Callahans linemates the last 2 years? Bet they are more talented than what he will have for Buffalo.

 

Its like Tyler Ennis. He could be a 70pt a year forward... he isn't. He is a 40-50pt guy and that is what it is. Callahan's best season was 29 goals. Will he hit 30? Maybe one year he will but I am done paying for Maybe this and Maybe that.

[MattPie]

Dude come on. I am dealing with reality here.

 

So am I. I like Callahan and all, but we can't just throw money around because there's room now. No one would be really upset at giving Callahan an extra $1-2M now, but once you add up a couple of those $1-2M extra contracts down the road we're in cap-hell and not able to sign or re-sign players we need.

[darksabre]

So am I. I like Callahan and all, but we can't just throw money around because there's room now. No one would be really upset at giving Callahan an extra $1-2M now, but once you add up a couple of those $1-2M extra contracts down the road we're in cap-hell and not able to sign or re-sign players we need.

 

If there's two places I don't want to be, it's Goalie Purgatory and Cap Hell.

[FolignosJock]

So am I. I like Callahan and all, but we can't just throw money around because there's room now. No one would be really upset at giving Callahan an extra $1-2M now, but once you add up a couple of those $1-2M extra contracts down the road we're in cap-hell and not able to sign or re-sign players we need.

 

 

We arent doing that with a bunch of people. We are purely talking about callahan right now. We wont need that money for 3-4 years and inthat time this contract will be incredibly easy to live with or trade away. The only way we would need to trade it away is if all of our young talent pans out and become top 6 forwards. That isnt going to happen. So it makes sense to get this deal done.

 

Yes it matters. Yes I am serious. I am not paying a 28yr old for the potential to get 30. Who were Callahans linemates the last 2 years? Bet they are more talented than what he will have for Buffalo.

 

Its like Tyler Ennis. He could be a 70pt a year forward... he isn't. He is a 40-50pt guy and that is what it is. Callahan's best season was 29 goals. Will he hit 30? Maybe one year he will but I am done paying for Maybe this and Maybe that.

 

 

Ok well lets get the 29 goal scorer who also offers all the intangibles and leadership so that the young core that is coming up sees that the guy we give money to is the hardest working guy on the ice and the leader in the locker room. or else we can listen to mattpie and show the entire league and all the kids we are drafting that buffalo is a laughing stock who overpaid 1 yr guys to get to the cap floor instead of trying to make their team better.....

Edited January 30, 2014 by FolignosJock

[LGR4GM]

 

 

 

We arent doing that with a bunch of people. We are purely talking about callahan right now. We wont need that money for 3-4 years and inthat time this contract will be incredibly easy to live with or trade away. The only way we would need to trade it away is if all of our young talent pans out and become top 6 forwards. That isnt going to happen. So it makes sense to get this deal done.

 

 

 

 

Ok well lets get the 29 goal scorer who also offers all the intangibles and leadership so that the young core that is coming up sees that the guy we give money to is the hardest working guy on the ice and the leader in the locker room. or else we can listen to mattpie and show the entire league and all the kids we are drafting that buffalo is a laughing stock ho overpaid 1 yr guys to get tothe cap floor instead of trying to make their team better.....

If you could sign him for either 6mil 5 years or 5mil 6 years I'd be in.

[FolignosJock]

If you could sign him for either 6mil 5 years or 5mil 6 years I'd be in.

 

 

 

Why not 6mil for 6 or 7? That doesnt make much sense as the contract will be worth much less than 2014 6million in 2020.

[beerme1]

Pissing contest on!