GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Philadelphia at Buffalo 1-14-14 at 7:30 PM EST

[SwampD]

And everybody is equally sick of yours and everyone else, miller is god crap. Works both ways, and that is obviously something you and a few other regulars don't understand.

Is that good or bad?

[Jsixspd]

Because he was at the end of a long shift and his linemates were already changing. The puck was behind Filly's net and the next line & D should have handled the rush. There are a lot of things Leino was guilty of tonight, costing the Sabres the game losing goal was not 1 of them.

 

I think it could have been taken behind the Sabres net, or passed to a team mate coming off the bench, rather than just dunking into Philly's zone. It's a tie game with only 30 seconds left. I don't think Leino would have shriveled up if he'd spent another 5 seconds on the ice protecting the puck while the line was changing.

 

I dunno if it was Leino's decision, or he was told to do that, but it was a poor one and contributed to setting up Philly for the scoring rush. Not the only factor - but the other team can only score if THEY have possession of the puck.

[sicknfla]

Here is my Miller opinion FWIW. He is 33 and been here a hundred years.During those hundred years he has had good teams and bad teams infront of him. During those years we haven't won dick. So if we are going to completely rebuild our team and try to be competitive in 3-4 years it can't include Ryan Miller.

 

For all you Miller strokers let me ask you a question. Why is he still here? For over a year he has been available for the taking. Yet nobody has bit. Maybe the rest of the league sees what many of us see. A good goalie that hasn't won dick. I know I know - he won a silver medal and a Vezina trophy. Who cares?

 

Now you select few can feel free to tell me how dumb I am.

[kishoph]

Seriously? Enroth is why we lost? I thought it was Mike Weber.

 

I don't want to see Weber and Sulzer on the ice in the last minute of a tied game.

 

 

I think a taller goalie would have won this game.

 

Yeah, that's right. I said it.

 

Can John Scott play goal ?

[Weave]

Now you select few can feel free to tell me how dumb I am.

 

You're so dumb you think that Hamburger Helper comes with another person in the box.

[SwampD]

Arguing about the goalies on the Sabres is just dumb. It's like arguing about the movie they are showing on a plane that is just about to crash.

[Marvelo]

Girgensons is playing like a man among boys. Problem is many of these "boys" are between the ages of 25-30. Despite his intensity, I don't think he's responsible enough Yet to be trusted on the PK and in the last minute of the game. I saw some good offensive plays tonight that worked, as opposed to the usual, jam ins from a scrum. Maybe we're starting to get a clue how to score. Moulson missed a couple that might've made a difference.

 

My biggest beef are the fumbles and punts from the defensive end. To me just about the biggest sin of all is the unforced breakout pass that misses its target. I understand a bad pass under pressure but if you're not under pressure, you should be hitting those passes each and every time. These are supposed to be professionals. There are too many casual instances where a wide open Sabre in the d zone passes it to the neutral zone...to nobody! It drives me crazy. Sometimes looks like these guys are playing together for the first time. But it's been this way for years.

 

As much as I like Teppo, he doesn't seem to be helping much.

[sicknfla]

 

 

You're so dumb you think that Hamburger Helper comes with another person in the box.

 

It doesn't??

[Johnny DangerFace]

Jj who do you think is the better goalie? Enroth or Miller?

[FolignosJock]

We win that game with Miller in net. If you dont think so, you are crazy.

[Jsixspd]

It would be interesting if the Swedish and the US Olympic team face each other next month.

[FolignosJock]

It would be interesting if the Swedish and the US Olympic team face each other next month.

 

 

Why?

[Taro T]

I think it could have been taken behind the Sabres net, or passed to a team mate coming off the bench, rather than just dunking into Philly's zone. It's a tie game with only 30 seconds left. I don't think Leino would have shriveled up if he'd spent another 5 seconds on the ice protecting the puck while the line was changing.

 

I dunno if it was Leino's decision, or he was told to do that, but it was a poor one and contributed to setting up Philly for the scoring rush. Not the only factor - but the other team can only score if THEY have possession of the puck.

He was getting pressure along the boards on the Filly side of the neutral zone and you wanted him to work the puck (w/ his linemates changing no less) behind the Sabres' net? He'd just turned the puck over twice on that same shift; sending the puck deep was the right play there. Get the puck deep and get off the ####ing ice is the correct play there. The Phlyers were 189' away from the Sabres' goal & there should have been 5 sets of fresh legs on the ice to keep them ~100' from Jhonas. There is no way that goal is on Leino.

 

If Leino tried again and failed again to make a play at that point and had turned the puck over in the neutral zone, THEN you'd've had a case.

[LGR4GM]

Why?

Maybe he really wants to see Lundqvist play Quick?

 

Here is my Miller opinion FWIW. He is 33 and been here a hundred years.During those hundred years he has had good teams and bad teams infront of him. During those years we haven't won dick. So if we are going to completely rebuild our team and try to be competitive in 3-4 years it can't include Ryan Miller.

 

For all you Miller strokers let me ask you a question. Why is he still here? For over a year he has been available for the taking. Yet nobody has bit. Maybe the rest of the league sees what many of us see. A good goalie that hasn't won dick. I know I know - he won a silver medal and a Vezina trophy. Who cares?

 

Now you select few can feel free to tell me how dumb I am.

Here is how dumb you are... it has been stated on this board multiple times that DR wanted a kings ransom for Ryan Miller. I believe it was a 2 firsts, a 2nd and a prospect or something along those lines. Now take a look at all the other goalie trades in the last couple years, his price is easily double that. And now you know why Ryan Miller is still a Buffalo Sabre, because the rent is to damn high.

[FolignosJock]

Maybe he really wants to see Lundqvist play Quick?

 

 

Here is how dumb you are... it has been stated on this board multiple times that DR wanted a kings ransom for Ryan Miller. I believe it was a 2 firsts, a 2nd and a prospect or something along those lines. Now take a look at all the other goalie trades in the last couple years, his price is easily double that. And now you know why Ryan Miller is still a Buffalo Sabre, because the rent is to damn high.

 

 

exactly lol we get to see which of our goalies is better on the bench. I hate it but it looks like USA hockey is going to get what they want and Quick will be the starter.

[sicknfla]

 

Maybe he really wants to see Lundqvist play Quick?

 

 

Here is how dumb you are... it has been stated on this board multiple times that DR wanted a kings ransom for Ryan Miller. I believe it was a 2 firsts, a 2nd and a prospect or something along those lines. Now take a look at all the other goalie trades in the last couple years, his price is easily double that. And now you know why Ryan Miller is still a Buffalo Sabre, because the rent is to damn high.

 

Yeah I must be. TM just said last week that the goalie market was soft. I just find it hard to believe that teams would give up so much for a scorer like Nash, Vanek, and Pominville (just a few quick examples) but yet won't give up the farm for ELITE would class goalies. I read recently that we may end up with just a 2nd for him. If I recall we got a first for Paul f'ing Gaustad.

 

I guess the entire league is dumb. ELITE goalies seldom become available. The entire league must be thinking there are not any ELITE goalies available right now either.

[FolignosJock]

Yeah I must be. TM just said last week that the goalie market was soft. I just find it hard to believe that teams would give up so much for a scorer like Nash, Vanek, and Pominville (just a few quick examples) but yet won't give up the farm for ELITE would class goalies. I read recently that we may end up with just a 2nd for him. If I recall we got a first for Paul f'ing Gaustad.

 

I guess the entire league is dumb. ELITE goalies seldom become available. The entire league must be thinking there are not any ELITE goalies available right now either.

 

 

We wont let him go for just a second

[That Aud Smell]

Also, this "Miller's only good in Olympic years LOLZ" crap needs to be put to rest. 100% Hot Steamy Bunk.

His save percentage has only been above a .920 twice... His GAA has only been below 2.50 ONCE and it was way down at 2.22.

I mean, there is some evidence.

 

He's certainly not terrible outside of Olympic years, but he's only elite, in my opinion, during Olympic years. Otherwise he's just at the top of the next group of guys.

 

it's perplexing to me that regular posters on this board so vehemently deny any connection between the olympics and miller's ability to focus his game to an elite level.

 

correlation does not imply causation is the common refrain among scientists. you know, the ones who study data and maybe try to link taking a certain drug with some other beneficial health outcome. but then they control for other variables, and maybe find that there's correlation but no causal link. the wikipedia entry for this maxim actually has a very good example of how that sort of thing happens. in science.

 

athletic performances aren't scientific in nature. human behaviour isn't reduced to cold hard data and controlled variables. we're all watching. we're all seeing the same thing. last time miller looked this good, it was when he was going to make damn sure usa hockey didn't make the same mistake they made in 2006 (come to think of it, didn't he go on a tear when he got left off that team?).

 

i just don't see why people are so resistant to the idea. the theory fits the facts and dovetails with some universal truths about external factors that can help motivate an elite performer.

[dudacek]

I am firmly in the Miller is elite camp.

I am glad the Olympic years prove that.

 

Serious question: we talk about his great 2014 and 2010. Was his third-best season in 2006?

[darksabre]

 

it's perplexing to me that regular posters on this board so vehemently deny any connection between the olympics and miller's ability to focus his game to an elite level.

 

correlation does not imply causation is the common refrain among scientists. you know, the ones who study data and maybe try to link taking a certain drug with some other beneficial health outcome. but then they control for other variables, and maybe find that there's correlation but no causal link. the wikipedia entry for this maxim actually has a very good example of how that sort of thing happens. in science.

 

athletic performances aren't scientific in nature. human behaviour isn't reduced to cold hard data and controlled variables. we're all watching. we're all seeing the same thing. last time miller looked this good, it was when he was going to make damn sure usa hockey didn't make the same mistake they made in 2006 (come to think of it, didn't he go on a tear when he got left off that team?).

 

i just don't see why people are so resistant to the idea. the theory fits the facts and dovetails with some universal truths about external factors that can help motivate an elite performer.

 

I'm waiting for the Olympic people to go ahead and eliminate all the other variables involved in a goaltender's statistics. Because not one person has undertaken this task yet which makes their correlation scam 100% unproven.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm waiting for the Olympic people to go ahead and eliminate all the other variables involved in a goaltender's statistics. Because not one person has undertaken this task yet which makes their correlation scam 100% unproven.

 

I guess that's the point, hoss. There's no data here, and there never will be. This is not a study cohort, and there's no scientifically sounds methods of study construction at play.

 

We're talking about an elite athlete and public figure. And all we have to go on is how he plays and what we know is going on in his life during such times.

 

Given the limited information with which we have to work, I'd say the "100% unproven" camp has the lesser of the available positions.

[LGR4GM]

Yeah I must be. TM just said last week that the goalie market was soft. I just find it hard to believe that teams would give up so much for a scorer like Nash, Vanek, and Pominville (just a few quick examples) but yet won't give up the farm for ELITE would class goalies. I read recently that we may end up with just a 2nd for him. If I recall we got a first for Paul f'ing Gaustad.

 

I guess the entire league is dumb. ELITE goalies seldom become available. The entire league must be thinking there are not any ELITE goalies available right now either.

And you missed the point. The point is the goalie market is soft and DR was asking too much. The Entire League has learned that you can win a cup with average GT. With the Niemi/Crawfords of the world. So you see Miller is/was overpriced as far as a trade was concerned when you could get a cheaper gt that basically gives you a similar chance at winning.

 

Also you said the dumb thing, I was just making fun of it.

[darksabre]

I guess that's the point, hoss. There's no data here, and there never will be. This is not a study cohort, and there's no scientifically sounds methods of study construction at play.

 

We're talking about an elite athlete and public figure. And all we have to go on is how he plays and what we know is going on in his life during such times.

 

Given the limited information with which we have to work, I'd say the "100% unproven" camp has the lesser of the available positions.

 

There are plenty of variables that could be sorted on this subject. How many goals were the Sabres scoring? Which seasons did Miller battle injury? Which seasons was he being overworked? Which season did Sidney Crosby not play against him a lot? Which seasons did Miller actually look really good as opposed to which seasons did his numbers look good?

 

All of these and many more things account for the evaluation of a goaltender. Yet all are being ignored by the Olympic Birthers.

[Robviously]

I guess that's the point, hoss. There's no data here, and there never will be. This is not a study cohort, and there's no scientifically sounds methods of study construction at play.

 

We're talking about an elite athlete and public figure. And all we have to go on is how he plays and what we know is going on in his life during such times.

 

Given the limited information with which we have to work, I'd say the "100% unproven" camp has the lesser of the available positions.

The other thing about the Olympics argument is that it barely matters. No one is saying "OMG MILLER IS ONLY GOOD DURING OLYMPICS LOLZ" (as d4rk put it last night). He's always been good since he came to the NHL. He's only been THIS good twice -- this year and four years ago. Maybe that's a coincidence or maybe Miller does get a little extra focused with the Olympics on the horizon. Either way, his ridiculously good play right now is an outlier.

 

The consensus on this board last year and even as late as November 2013 is that Miller wasn't going to fetch a ton in the trade market due, in part, to his play. So it wasn't that long ago we were thinking "I'm not sure teams are going to want to trade a lot for this level of goaltending. Is this even a big upgrade?"

 

So if you're re-sign Miller, you're probably re-signing the "good" goalie he's been most of his career and NOT the supernatural entity he's been the last couple months. That still might be a good move (one less thing to worry about for a few years) but that's the decision.

[Stoner]

FWIW, Darcy was firmly on board with the Olympic Theory of Ryan Miller. There's this quote, and others that I can't locate quickly but will look for:

 

 

Buffalo Sabres general manager Darcy Regier remembers precisely when he last witnessed goalie Ryan Miller displaying the same laser sharp focus he's showing this season.

"It was during the last Olympics," Regier said. "I remember thinking in 2010, I don't know if I've ever seen this level of focus over this period of time."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2013/11/05/usa-olympic-hockey-tracker-sochi-ryan-miller/3449221/