inkman Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I don't understand your confusion. The vets are playing and we're on course to draft high talent. Isn't that exactly what you want? The course has changed. We'll see if it is enough to affect draft position. My gut tells me they draft in the 4-8 range. Another wasted season.
beerme1 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 TN has never impressed me. I do not want the hardest working team in hockey, I want a talented dynasty. I realize I am in the minority. Do you think that we may have had the hardest working team in hockey, that went on to become a talented dynasty? Of course there is no answer but anyone who doesn't give Nolan some props at this point doesn't understand the basics of hockey.
drnkirishone Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Do you think that we may have had the hardest working team in hockey, that went on to become a talented dynasty? Of course there is no answer but anyone who doesn't give Nolan some props at this point doesn't understand the basics of hockey. I will give teddy credit for doing what he does best. getting max effort and results out of borderline talent. with the right assistant coaches maybe he can be the answer here. My concern is that Ted doesn't seem to have a great track record with talented players. Maybe that is just a case of him having had headcase talented players or maybe not. Here is what i don't want. I don't want a repeat of muckler/nolan nor do I want a repeat of regier/ruff. beyond that just play hard, entertain me, and win cup(s) (yes that is multiple of lord stanley's kitchenware).
Kristian Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Ok so DR's plan was to play the young guys and be ok with taking our lumps. By doing this we would most likely end up with high draft picks. TP was fine with that. We then were worse than imagined. TP then realizes that being that bad was not what he wanted anymore. He then brings in PLF who also states you need top picks to reach elite level. So, we still want to be bad but competitive. Ship out the young guys and bring in some more players who are absolutely no part of the future. All the while your coach is preaching compete and trying to get this group of retreads to win hockey games. You have a FA goalie who is single handidly winning you these games. This goalie is most likely not part of the future. Forgive me if I am confused as to what the hell is exactly the direction of this team!! I understand if you're confused, so am I. But I don't think it's as simple as Terry being "ok with sucking, then not ok with sucking". I think Regier sold the tank to him, but I also think he made the mistake of misleading Terry. Or least, making Terry feel mislead. I think Regier hired Rolson on a permanent basis, in a total weasel move. He knew Rolston was in over his head, and while Regier may not have set him up to fail purposely I feel certain he wasn't looking for Rolston to succeed in turning the team around either. All in order to gather his beloved high draft picks. Since Terry probably forced the coaching change upon him, I also think Terry expected him to hire a decent coach, and not some AHL hack. Regardless of his comments in the press, I think Terry was genuinely annoyed with Regier hiring Rolston on a permanent basis, probably putting the next to final nail in his coffin. I think Terry felt mislead by this. I think Regier sold the idea that the team would be lacking in talent and most likely finish in the bottom of the league, but I don't thnk he was honest with him about how this would happen - By basically throwing in the towel in every single game, and just coast around going through the motions, with a coach nowhere good enough for the NHL. I think Terry wanted a change in the mentality. He was probably equally sick of the constant coasting and floating through games, and probably even more sick of Darcy being ok with it, and in half-desperation approached LaFontaine. I think the Nolan hiring is an attempt to change the mentality of the team, more than anything. The fact that Miller's playing lights out is what wins games right now, not the team, regardless of how they're busting their butts. That said, a guy like Myers seems to have turned his game around completely under Nolan, which is probably exactly what Terry and PLF hoped Nolan would accomplish. I think both PLF and Terry are bewildered on what to do with Miller - Do we trade him and tank, while continuing to let Nolan change the teams mentality, or do we go all-in on a re-signing, and try bringing in a few free agents over the summer? I think the direction you're seeking completely comes down to what happens with Miller. I also think the Sabres reputation in the league changed pretty much overnight, when PLF was brought in. It only helps that Ted has his boys playing hard seemingly every night ever since. I think a new GM will have a somewhat easier time convincing players to come here, than Regier ever did. Maybe not first-line talent, but less can do the trick.
phil_soisson Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I understand if you're confused, so am I. But I don't think it's as simple as Terry being "ok with sucking, then not ok with sucking". I think Regier sold the tank to him, but I also think he made the mistake of misleading Terry. Or least, making Terry feel mislead. I think Regier hired Rolson on a permanent basis, in a total weasel move. He knew Rolston was in over his head, and while Regier may not have set him up to fail purposely I feel certain he wasn't looking for Rolston to succeed in turning the team around either. All in order to gather his beloved high draft picks. Since Terry probably forced the coaching change upon him, I also think Terry expected him to hire a decent coach, and not some AHL hack. Regardless of his comments in the press, I think Terry was genuinely annoyed with Regier hiring Rolston on a permanent basis, probably putting the next to final nail in his coffin. I think Terry felt mislead by this. I think Regier sold the idea that the team would be lacking in talent and most likely finish in the bottom of the league, but I don't thnk he was honest with him about how this would happen - By basically throwing in the towel in every single game, and just coast around going through the motions, with a coach nowhere good enough for the NHL. I think Terry wanted a change in the mentality. He was probably equally sick of the constant coasting and floating through games, and probably even more sick of Darcy being ok with it, and in half-desperation approached LaFontaine. I think the Nolan hiring is an attempt to change the mentality of the team, more than anything. The fact that Miller's playing lights out is what wins games right now, not the team, regardless of how they're busting their butts. That said, a guy like Myers seems to have turned his game around completely under Nolan, which is probably exactly what Terry and PLF hoped Nolan would accomplish. I think both PLF and Terry are bewildered on what to do with Miller - Do we trade him and tank, while continuing to let Nolan change the teams mentality, or do we go all-in on a re-signing, and try bringing in a few free agents over the summer? I think the direction you're seeking completely comes down to what happens with Miller. I also think the Sabres reputation in the league changed pretty much overnight, when PLF was brought in. It only helps that Ted has his boys playing hard seemingly every night ever since. I think a new GM will have a somewhat easier time convincing players to come here, than Regier ever did. Maybe not first-line talent, but less can do the trick. Terry gets no sympathy from me for being "misled". He should have seen what a weasel Regier was just by the pay raise and extension Golisano and Quinn gave Regier immediately prior to the sale. Instead, Terry's finding out that he wasted two years, something most fans knew before the day of the sale.
Kristian Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Terry gets no sympathy from me for being "misled". He should have seen what a weasel Regier was just by the pay raise and extension Golisano and Quinn gave Regier immediately prior to the sale. Instead, Terry's finding out that he wasted two years, something most fans knew before the day of the sale. You'll get no argument from me there, Regier's limitations were obvious, and should have been plain for everyone to see. However, I belive Terry sees his involvement here being long-term, meaning two years is probably not very long to him. It seems very long to us, cause we had to watch the team going nowhere for another two seasons, lockout or no lockout.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 And how does one do a tank? Sign high price cast offs? Make late season runs to 9th? Dumping under achieving vets for potential, and generational talent in particular, is the best way to revamp an organization that has never won anything. And before I get flamed about salary cap space, save it. The team is in Buffalo. No one wants to go to the Siberia of professional sports when there are options like NY, CHI, BOS, LA and Toronto where the quality of life for a young athlete is much different. Draftees have no choice, and if you get a few good ones you then can change the Siberia perception. Darcy's tank plan was absolutely correct. The fact that TP couldn't stomach it and hired PR facesavers does not give me much optimism that things will ever get better. PLF was tangentially involved in a third tier junior league not an nhl insider and TN has never impressed me. I do not want the hardest working team in hockey, I want a talented dynasty. I realize I am in the minority. Darcy's crime, and Lindy's for that matter, was being in Buffalo too long.
sicknfla Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Darcy's crime, and Lindy's for that matter, was being in Buffalo too long. That is not Darcy and Lindys crime.That is TPs crime. He could have come in here and cleaned house. Would have given him immediate credibility I believe. Instead he chose status quo which IMO made him look weak and maybe in over his head. He is learning on the job so to speak. The sooner he realizes that owning a professional sports team is not the same as his drilling business the better.
darksabre Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 You'll get no argument from me there, Regier's limitations were obvious, and should have been plain for everyone to see. However, I belive Terry sees his involvement here being long-term, meaning two years is probably not very long to him. It seems very long to us, cause we had to watch the team going nowhere for another two seasons, lockout or no lockout. Good post.
Derrico Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 The course has changed. We'll see if it is enough to affect draft position. My gut tells me they draft in the 4-8 range. Another wasted season. Completely agree. We need Tank Nation for a couple of seasons IMO and it's not looking good right now. The only saving grace is the Isles are bad right now too. We need them tanking so we can atleast get 2 top 10 picks likely in the 4-8 range or we get lucky and they defer the pick. With all the cap space the Sabres have to spend I just don't think we have a McDavid run in us. However, with the Isles defering and who knows if A) the owner will spend money and B) who wants to go there then the Isles may have another lottery pick next season we would get.
dudacek Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 You guys realize we are eight points behind Calgary (fourth pick) and 14 behind Jersey (eighth)? Do you really think this roster can make up that much ground in 40 games?
TrueBlueGED Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 You guys realize we are eight points behind Calgary (fourth pick) and 14 behind Jersey (eighth)? Do you really think this roster can make up that much ground in 40 games? I think battered fan syndrome is kicking in for many.
Claude_Verret Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I think Regier hired Rolson on a permanent basis, in a total weasel move. He knew Rolston was in over his head, and while Regier may not have set him up to fail purposely I feel certain he wasn't looking for Rolston to succeed in turning the team around either. All in order to gather his beloved high draft picks. Do you really think DR's plan was to ice a team that didn't even look like it belonged in the NHL and he thought he could survive with his job? I think you're right that he sold the tank to Pegula, but none of them envisioned it playing out like it did with the team looking listless and getting throttled on a nightly basis. The concept of tanking and the tank playing out before your eyes under the worst possible scenario are two different things. DR's final nail was keeping Rolston on, if he hires an experienced NHL coach instead this offseason I believe he is still the GM.
darksabre Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I think battered fan syndrome is kicking in for many. This is likely. If they go 6-3-2 in December with a win tonight, there's going to be some worrying going on. There's no way this team should be playing better than deluca .500 hockey.
3putt Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Do you think that we may have had the hardest working team in hockey, that went on to become a talented dynasty? Of course there is no answer but anyone who doesn't give Nolan some props at this point doesn't understand the basics of hockey. Lmao! Giving Nolan credit for Millers drive for the Olympic team seems to be a stretch. Or maybe it should be the turnaround of Leino, oops! Or rather the emergence of Stafford and his scoring tear? Er no! Don't forget your helmet and crayons on the way to your bus.
Kristian Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 This is likely. If they go 6-3-2 in December with a win tonight, there's going to be some worrying going on. There's no way this team should be playing better than deluca .500 hockey. Does anyone remember the last time they even went .500 in December? That must be at least 5 years ago, as long as I can remember, they always went into a tailspin throughout november and december.
Claude_Verret Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 This is likely. If they go 6-3-2 in December with a win tonight, there's going to be some worrying going on. There's no way this team should be playing better than deluca .500 hockey. It's going to take Miller to continue doing his best Hasek impression for the remainder of the season. I don't believe it's sustainable.
inkman Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I think battered fan syndrome is kicking in for many. In my best Lane Staley impression, "I'm the dog that gets beat. Rub my nose in ######!" You guys realize we are eight points behind Calgary (fourth pick) and 14 behind Jersey (eighth)? Do you really think this roster can make up that much ground in 40 games? As implausible as it may seem, they are winning at a good clip now. I could easily see them getting to 4th or 5th worst.
Kristian Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Do you really think DR's plan was to ice a team that didn't even look like it belonged in the NHL and he thought he could survive with his job? I think you're right that he sold the tank to Pegula, but none of them envisioned it playing out like it did with the team looking listless and getting throttled on a nightly basis. The concept of tanking and the tank playing out before your eyes under the worst possible scenario are two different things. DR's final nail was keeping Rolston on, if he hires an experienced NHL coach instead this offseason I believe he is still the GM. I don't think he planned it, but I do think he didn't care much about it. I also believe he thought he had done such a great job at selling the tank, that he believed Pegula didn't care either. After all, they were supposed to tank, right? They looked listless for years, why should that change during a tank? I agree hiring Rolston is what did him in, but I also believe the permanent hiring was a cold and calculated dick-move on Darcy's part. Rolston wasn't brought on to succeed, or develop talent, he was brought on to oversee a ton of losses.
darksabre Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 Does anyone remember the last time they even went .500 in December? That must be at least 5 years ago, as long as I can remember, they always went into a tailspin throughout november and december. 2011-12 December: 4-9-1 2010-11 December: 6-5-1 2009-10 December: 9-4-1 2008-09 December: 6-6-2
Claude_Verret Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I don't think he planned it, but I do think he didn't care much about it. I also believe he thought he had done such a great job at selling the tank, that he believed Pegula didn't care either. After all, they were supposed to tank, right? They looked listless for years, why should that change during a tank? I agree hiring Rolston is what did him in, but I also believe the permanent hiring was a cold and calculated dick-move on Darcy's part. Rolston wasn't brought on to succeed, or develop talent, he was brought on to oversee a ton of losses. In fact wasn't that exactly why he was kept, for his demonstrated acumen at developing young talent?
Kristian Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 2011-12 December: 4-9-1 2010-11 December: 6-5-1 2009-10 December: 9-4-1 2008-09 December: 6-6-2 Really? Funny how I remember them much worse than that.
tom webster Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 2011-12 December: 4-9-1 2010-11 December: 6-5-1 2009-10 December: 9-4-1 2008-09 December: 6-6-2 Facts! Anecdotal memory makes for much better banter.
Kristian Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 In fact wasn't that exactly why he was kept, for his demonstrated acumen at developing young talent? I'm sure Darcy wanted it to sound that way, but how are you going to develop talent when it's men against boys every night, and you're supposed to lose on an almost nightly basis? Facts! Anecdotal memory makes for much better banter. No complaining here, it was a legitimate question.
wjag Posted December 31, 2013 Report Posted December 31, 2013 I'd like to see someone with no prior history or connection to the Sabres. Give me that guy from LA.
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