GAME DISCUSSION THREAD GDT: Washington at Buffalo 12-29-13 at 5:00 PM EST

[apuszczalowski]

This year totally disproves your point. His statistical performance does not correlate with the quality of the team in front of him over the course of his career. The timing of the Olympics does, however.

 

I like that comeback though, it never gets old. You sound like Miller, if they're bad it's somebody elses fault. If they win, he gets the credit. ;)

If you go by Save percentage, probably the only stat worth using for goalies seeing as how GAA can be scewed by how many shots they face, and things like games played, etc. The difference between his save percentage in a regular season and an olympic year is about 1.2% (This year and last year he is .927 compared to .915, and with the last olympics he was a .929 compared to .918), his average save % is around the .915

 

If you want to use GAA, then at his best during an olympic year, he is a 0.31 better then a non olympic year. (At the last olympic year he had a 2.22 GAA, compared to a 2.53 GAA the year before, which he played 10 more games in the olympic year but gave up only 5 more goals in those games) This year he has a 2.69 GAA thats down from a career high (since being named full time starter) of 2.81 GAA last season (His career average GAA is 2.59 w/ a .916 Save %)

 

Its not like the guy goes from Flyers Goaltender to Hasek when the Olympics are around

[dudacek]

Dom's the best player ever to wear a Sabres uniform, but he is nowhere near the best Sabre.

Ryan, on the other hand, is definitely on the list, and has a chance to end up at or near the top if he re-signs.

 

Since when has saying "we need to be better" constituted throwing teammates under the bus?

Some fans seem to dislike Ryan for not being a vanilla interview, but his teammates seem to respect the hell out of him.

[apuszczalowski]

Dom's the best player ever to wear a Sabres uniform, but he is nowhere near the best Sabre.

Ryan, on the other hand, is definitely on the list, and has a chance to end up at or near the top if he re-signs.

 

Since when has saying "we need to be better" constituted throwing teammates under the bus?

Some fans seem to dislike Ryan for not being a vanilla interview, but his teammates seem to respect the hell out of him.

If you consider personality/likability into it

On the ice, hands down, Hasek is at the top of the list for best player, but as a human being, he is way down the list on the likability factor

 

As for Miller, I don't think, even if he retires never playing for another team, he will reach Hasek on the best player list, but he will pass him on the Total package list (on ice play and likability)

[JJFIVEOH]

If you go by Save percentage, probably the only stat worth using for goalies seeing as how GAA can be scewed by how many shots they face, and things like games played, etc. The difference between his save percentage in a regular season and an olympic year is about 1.2% (This year and last year he is .927 compared to .915, and with the last olympics he was a .929 compared to .918), his average save % is around the .915

 

If you want to use GAA, then at his best during an olympic year, he is a 0.31 better then a non olympic year. (At the last olympic year he had a 2.22 GAA, compared to a 2.53 GAA the year before, which he played 10 more games in the olympic year but gave up only 5 more goals in those games) This year he has a 2.69 GAA thats down from a career high (since being named full time starter) of 2.81 GAA last season (His career average GAA is 2.59 w/ a .916 Save %)

 

Its not like the guy goes from Flyers Goaltender to Hasek when the Olympics are around

 

Exactly, and that's the stat I go by. I've always said that he's a decent, slightly above average goaltender in off years and that's where his numbers put him. .012 is pretty substantial.

 

For the record, I wasn't bringing up how good or bad Miller is, I was just pointing out the unwarranted jabs from the Miller Fan Club. :P

[apuszczalowski]

Exactly, and that's the stat I go by. I've always said that he's a decent, slightly above average goaltender in off years and that's where his numbers put him. .012 is pretty substantial.

 

For the record, I wasn't bringing up how good or bad Miller is, I was just pointing out the unwarranted jabs from the Miller Fan Club. :P

1.2% is pretty substantial? If your facing 30 shots a game, thats one extra save every 3 games +/-

[nfreeman]

I am as big a Miller fan as most, but if we are evaluating "best Sabre" based on factors like "team player" quotient, and if he bails this season despite TP/PLF offering him a blank check to stay, his rating has to drop substantially.

 

Now, if he signs an extension and gives us 3-4 more strong years? He is top-5 "best Sabres" of all time.

[Jsixspd]

Miller played an average (for Ryan Miller) game in Toronto which was a very good game and a top ten goalie in the league level of play. If he'd been exceptional, as in LAST night, the Sabres probably would have won in Toronto. Last night was a Vezina caliber game - he was the best goalie in the business last night.

 

But he's never going to do that, nor can anyone, night after night. I don't think it's bashing Ryan Miller at all. Obviously, if the Sabres had someone who can score consistently, they also could have won - most of the team plays below average in terms of SOG and Points so the majority of any blame is on the lines and the quality of the players on the lines, not Ryan Miller.

 

Probably 90% of the league's goalies - in the Buffalo crease last night - would have given up 3 or 4 goals.

[JJFIVEOH]

1.2% is pretty substantial? If your facing 30 shots a game, thats one extra save every 3 games +/-

 

Go count up all the one goal games in the league and tell me how much one extra goal works out over the course of a season. I bet that gets the Sabres in the playoffs two years ago.

 

In most years .012 moves you from 10th to 25th in the league.

 

With that said, I'm going to reserve any more discussion for the appropriate thread because I didn't hijack it but I usually get the blame.

[TrueBlueGED]

Hasek's career stats: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/hasekdo01.html

Roy's career stats: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/roypa01.html

Brodeur's career stats: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/b/brodema01.html

Miller's career stats: http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/millery01.html

 

Save percentages fluctuate yearly, sometimes by large amounts, with no rhyme or reason other than luck and "bounces" in hockey parlance. Miller's SV% jumped .12 from 07-08 to 08-09, which was larger than the increase in performance from 08-09 to 09-10 (his Vezina and Olympic season). So I guess he was much more excited and motivated for that season two years after Black Sunday than he was for the Olympics? Brodeur's SV% jumped .11 from 05-06 to 06-07...man that season AFTER the Olympics really lit a fire under him! Roy's SV% dropped a whopping .20 from 91-92 to 92-93, so I suppose he stopped caring about being a good goaltender that year...but wait, it rebounded by an incredible .24 for the next season, so I guess he cared again? I suppose you could use the Olympic years to explain Roy's performance too...until you take note that his SV% increased .14 from 95-96 to 96-97, which doesn't coincide with the Olympics at all.

 

I'm so sick of the "Olympic inspiration for better performance" argument for Miller, it's complete garbage.

[Two or less]

I went to the game last night and sat in 317 with 4 of my best friends. We had a DD (bought him his ticket and wings at cobblestone). So, the 4 of us got pretty hammered at the game and had an absolute blast. During the end of the 1st period, my brother tried reaching me via skype on my cellphone. He is currently on vacation in Poland. So, with about 2 min left in the period, i left my seat, ran to the restroom and then talked to him for a bit. Since the period ended, it was hard hearing him so we just decided to text each other. I had left my cell on the table next to a beer stand so each time he texted, i would see it. Since i was pretty loaded, when i tried to put the phone back into my pocket, i must of missed and dropped my phone to the ground.

 

Didnt notice it being gone til the 2nd intermission. I walked the hallways and went to the rest rooms, no sign of my phone. I went to the customer service area on the 3rd floor, and nobody returned my phone. I tried again mid-way through the 3rd period and still no sign. Customer service checked with all other customer service agents and no luck at all. They gave me a number to call back on Monday with.

 

So after several searches and several calls to the customer service desk, no luck finding the phone, i thought for sure it was gone. Wasn't too upset because it was fault.

 

But, on our way out, i decided to stop into the account services one more time before going back home. I step in and i hear a nice guy yell "i think we found it!" really? no effing way. The ask me for a description and surly enough, some amazing kind person went out of their way to pick up my phone from the floor of the 300 level and brought it to the guest services. I couldn't believe that someone was that nice to go out of their way.

 

Anyhow, great win, im still hungover and happy new years to the person who was so nice!

[darksabre]

 

 

Exactly, and that's the stat I go by. I've always said that he's a decent, slightly above average goaltender in off years and that's where his numbers put him. .012 is pretty substantial.

 

For the record, I wasn't bringing up how good or bad Miller is, I was just pointing out the unwarranted jabs from the Miller Fan Club. :P

 

I just want to note that I think for Miller's sake it's important to differentiate between the way this year's team sucks as opposed to how the teams from October 2007 through May 2013 sucked. Those previous teams sucked because despite having talented players they had no idea how to play a team game. They constantly hung Miller and every backup goalie during that time out to dry. If Miller said they sucked it's because they really did.

 

This year's team sucks because it lacks talent. But they've developed the ability to at least play a game in front of Miller that makes it possible for him to steal games. Goaltender performance doesn't happen in a vacuum.

 

I am as big a Miller fan as most, but if we are evaluating "best Sabre" based on factors like "team player" quotient, and if he bails this season despite TP/PLF offering him a blank check to stay, his rating has to drop substantially.

 

Now, if he signs an extension and gives us 3-4 more strong years? He is top-5 "best Sabres" of all time.

 

This is 100% accurate.

[JJFIVEOH]

I just want to note that I think for Miller's sake it's important to differentiate between the way this year's team sucks as opposed to how the teams from October 2007 through May 2013 sucked. Those previous teams sucked because despite having talented players they had no idea how to play a team game. They constantly hung Miller and every backup goalie during that time out to dry. If Miller said they sucked it's because they really did.

 

This year's team sucks because it lacks talent. But they've developed the ability to at least play a game in front of Miller that makes it possible for him to steal games. Goaltender performance doesn't happen in a vacuum.

 

 

 

This is 100% accurate.

 

And between 2007 and 2013 he had one stand out year. Olympic year.

 

Well hell, if it's the team in front of him that only tries every four years it's going to suck to have to wait until 2017-18.

[darksabre]

 

 

And between 2007 and 2013 he had one stand out year. Olympic year.

 

Well hell, if it's the team in front of him that only tries every four years it's going to suck to have to wait until 2017-18.

 

:lol: Right at the tail end of his new contract and when our team should be making its second deep playoff push. Sounds about right!

 

All of Miller's seasons have been good. He's won us more games than we ever had a right to win. In fact I would blame Miller for making this team look better than it was. If we were playing Enroth and xxxx in goal the last few years, maybe Darcy gets fired a lot sooner....

[dudacek]

 

 

:lol: Right at the tail end of his new contract and when our team should be making its second deep playoff push. Sounds about right!

 

All of Miller's seasons have been good. He's won us more games than we ever had a right to win. In fact I would blame Miller for making this team look better than it was. If we were playing Enroth and xxxx in goal the last few years, maybe Darcy gets fired a lot sooner....

 

Truth. Preach it.

[JJFIVEOH]

I can't wait to say 'I told you so' around this time next year. :flirt:

 

Even Miller's biggest cheerleader, Brian Koziol, sees it. He mentions it quite often.

[darksabre]

I can't wait to say 'I told you so' around this time next year. :flirt:

 

Even Miller's biggest cheerleader, Brian Koziol, sees it. He mentions it quite often.

 

Koziol is a moron.

[dudacek]

So using your criteria, how many other goalies have been cranking out Vezina-calibre seasons every four years, separated by average to excellent seasons, and absent any poor ones?

[nfreeman]

Hasek's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../hasekdo01.html

Roy's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../r/roypa01.html

Brodeur's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../brodema01.html

Miller's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../millery01.html

 

Save percentages fluctuate yearly, sometimes by large amounts, with no rhyme or reason other than luck and "bounces" in hockey parlance. Miller's SV% jumped .12 from 07-08 to 08-09, which was larger than the increase in performance from 08-09 to 09-10 (his Vezina and Olympic season). So I guess he was much more excited and motivated for that season two years after Black Sunday than he was for the Olympics? Brodeur's SV% jumped .11 from 05-06 to 06-07...man that season AFTER the Olympics really lit a fire under him! Roy's SV% dropped a whopping .20 from 91-92 to 92-93, so I suppose he stopped caring about being a good goaltender that year...but wait, it rebounded by an incredible .24 for the next season, so I guess he cared again? I suppose you could use the Olympic years to explain Roy's performance too...until you take note that his SV% increased .14 from 95-96 to 96-97, which doesn't coincide with the Olympics at all.

 

I'm so sick of the "Olympic inspiration for better performance" argument for Miller, it's complete garbage.

 

Good post.

[bunomatic]

Hasek wears Kramer socks with sock suspenders. He takes it with the ' cool ' factored in. Miller just can't bring it like that.

[ubkev]

Hasek wears Kramer socks with sock suspenders. He takes it with the ' cool ' factored in. Miller just can't bring it like that.

 

I'm not so sure. Miller married an indie actress. (Acting in TV shows and movies of which I have never seen a single one and I own over 800 DVDs, counts as indie right?) And indie actors/actresses are the bee's knee's!

[bunomatic]

I'm not so sure. Miller married an indie actress. (Acting in TV shows and movies of which I have never seen a single one and I own over 800 DVDs, counts as indie right?) And indie actors/actresses are the bee's knee's!

 

She is hot but athletes get the hot chick by default .

[JJFIVEOH]

Hasek's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../hasekdo01.html

Roy's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../r/roypa01.html

Brodeur's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../brodema01.html

Miller's career stats: http://www.hockey-re.../millery01.html

 

Save percentages fluctuate yearly, sometimes by large amounts, with no rhyme or reason other than luck and "bounces" in hockey parlance. Miller's SV% jumped .12 from 07-08 to 08-09, which was larger than the increase in performance from 08-09 to 09-10 (his Vezina and Olympic season). So I guess he was much more excited and motivated for that season two years after Black Sunday than he was for the Olympics? Brodeur's SV% jumped .11 from 05-06 to 06-07...man that season AFTER the Olympics really lit a fire under him! Roy's SV% dropped a whopping .20 from 91-92 to 92-93, so I suppose he stopped caring about being a good goaltender that year...but wait, it rebounded by an incredible .24 for the next season, so I guess he cared again? I suppose you could use the Olympic years to explain Roy's performance too...until you take note that his SV% increased .14 from 95-96 to 96-97, which doesn't coincide with the Olympics at all.

 

I'm so sick of the "Olympic inspiration for better performance" argument for Miller, it's complete garbage.

 

Take it to the Miller thread.

[Eleven]

Take it to the Miller thread.

 

That thread is average.

[JJFIVEOH]

That thread is average.

 

Every fourth post is great! :D

[Kristian]

That thread is average.

 

Nothing like the Hasek thread we used to have.

 

We were lucky to have that thread.